Is It Really Good to Do This?

[Azureknight 773]

Greetings all in Christ, peace and love be.

I have been in a dilemma as of late because of the issue of whether or not a form of Death Penalty is a must for the elimination of evil. Now I know that there are bad guys out there and should be dealt with for a speedy peacefulness but there are people out there that keeps on supporting them in hopes for their redemption. However, these people tend to throw that away to the point of killing and or corrupting the many (I am looking at terrorists and drug lords among the many). Now the big question as what the title says, is it really good to take life of one or a few out of the defense of the many so as that the many will live? Or do we allow the bad one or ones that threaten the general public at large continue to do evil?

I for one support the St. Paul argument only when it truly applies. We Christians all know that St. Paul was like an executioner of the Faithful back in the times as Saul of Tarsus. That guy killed directly or indirectly our earliest brothers and sisters to the point where he is like a Darth Vader of sorts if we look at contemporary medias' eyes. He even allowed the death of his fellow saint whose name is St. Stephan (Stephen... Correct me if I am wrong) to death by stoning. But one day, he was visited by the Lord on his way to Damascus and we pretty much know what happened from there on. He became one of God's most powerful allies in His will to spread His Gospel to the Gentiles, who helped spread it worldwide from Europe. If a powerful sinner cordially repents and cries to his or her own sins and asks God for forgiveness and consolidation after all of the evil they've done, does what he does to help the good guys win... Then that guy shall obviously live but at with guilt in his heart.

However, if the evil ones do not ever repent and mourn for their sins then he must be punished all the way. Now this Death Penalty could apply to these people since stopping them with words won't be suffice.

What are your thoughts in this controversial matter?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

is it really good to take life of one or a few out of the defense of the many so as that the many will live?

No. It's not really good.

Or do we allow the bad one or ones that threaten the general public at large continue to do evil?

Yes, "we"(ekklesia, servants of JESUS, children of YHWH)
allow the bad ones to continue. Otherwise(if we had the power to make them disappear), we would have no government, no forum, no internet, etc etc etc....
i.e. there is nothing (except pray,then do whatever GOD says to do) we (GOD'S CHILDREN) can do in this world
to punish the wicked evil disobedient ones outside of the assembly.(i.e. most all society and so forth is outside of our jurisdiction - in GOD'S HANDS, not in our hands(as HE SAYS) )
-----------------------------------------------------------

If a powerful sinner cordially repents and cries to his or her own sins and asks God for forgiveness and consolidation after all of the evil they've done, does what he does to help the good guys win... Then that guy shall obviously live but at with guilt in his heart.

Paul did not live with guilt in his heart.
It is written that he had a perfect clear conscience after he was saved, immersed in JESUS, cleansed by JESUS' BLOOD, and washed by the water of the word.
He (and the other apostles and disciples) came to the point of "knowing nothing against himself" - no sin in their lives as they had all been dealt with and removed as GOD accomplished this -
as written again, also , in HEBREWS,
how we in CHRIST JESUS come DIRECTLY TO GOD'S THRONE, yes, TODAY, with a clear conscience,
to ask for anything we need DIRECTLY from GOD the CREATOR,
yes, today.
====================================

However, if the evil ones do not ever repent and mourn for their sins then he must be punished all the way. Now this Death Penalty could apply to these people since stopping them with words won't be suffice.
What are your thoughts in this controversial matter?

What is written ?
We (the called out ones, immersed in JESUS, born again by GOD'S WILL, set apart (from sin and the world) by GOD HIMSELF)
have
no jurisdiction in the world(carnal, earthly, natural)
as the body of CHRIST -
yes, we can pray, and do, and GOD answers, and GOD HIMSELF works out everything
(not just a few things, but everything)
as HE PLEASES.
Those outside of the ekklesia - GOD judges .
WE (the ekklesia) judge ourselves and those INSIDE the BODY by faith, righteously, as GOD directs.

Remember Yochanan the immerser and all the followers of JESUS, did not change the roman leaders and prevent them from marrying in sinfulness and idolatry and brazen wickedness;
no,
instead, Yochanan the immerser and all the followers of JESUS were subjects, and were persecuted, and were many put to death for living righteous lives. (not for breaking any law).

The opposite of justice, for a while, now, today.

 

[AvgJoe]

Greetings all in Christ, peace and love be.

I have been in a dilemma as of late because of the issue of whether or not a form of Death Penalty is a must for the elimination of evil. Now I know that there are bad guys out there and should be dealt with for a speedy peacefulness but there are people out there that keeps on supporting them in hopes for their redemption. However, these people tend to throw that away to the point of killing and or corrupting the many (I am looking at terrorists and drug lords among the many). Now the big question as what the title says, is it really good to take life of one or a few out of the defense of the many so as that the many will live? Or do we allow the bad one or ones that threaten the general public at large continue to do evil?

I for one support the St. Paul argument only when it truly applies. We Christians all know that St. Paul was like an executioner of the Faithful back in the times as Saul of Tarsus. That guy killed directly or indirectly our earliest brothers and sisters to the point where he is like a Darth Vader of sorts if we look at contemporary medias' eyes. He even allowed the death of his fellow saint whose name is St. Stephan (Stephen... Correct me if I am wrong) to death by stoning. But one day, he was visited by the Lord on his way to Damascus and we pretty much know what happened from there on. He became one of God's most powerful allies in His will to spread His Gospel to the Gentiles, who helped spread it worldwide from Europe. If a powerful sinner cordially repents and cries to his or her own sins and asks God for forgiveness and consolidation after all of the evil they've done, does what he does to help the good guys win... Then that guy shall obviously live but at with guilt in his heart.

However, if the evil ones do not ever repent and mourn for their sins then he must be punished all the way. Now this Death Penalty could apply to these people since stopping them with words won't be suffice.

What are your thoughts in this controversial matter?

The Old Testament law commanded the death penalty for various acts: murder (Exodus 21:12), kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), inappropriate behavior with animals (Exodus 22:19), adultery (Leviticus 20:10), homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13), being a false prophet (Deuteronomy 13:5), prostitution and rape (Deuteronomy 22:24), and several other crimes. However, God often showed mercy when the death penalty was due. David committed adultery and murder, yet God did not demand his life be taken (2 Samuel 11:1-5, 14-17; 2 Samuel 12:13). Ultimately, every sin we commit should result in the death penalty because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Thankfully, God demonstrates His love for us in not condemning us (Romans 5:8).

When the Pharisees brought a woman who was caught in the act of adultery to Jesus and asked Him if she should be stoned, Jesus replied, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her” (John 8:7). This should not be used to indicate that Jesus rejected capital punishment in all instances. Jesus was simply exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. The Pharisees wanted to trick Jesus into breaking the Old Testament law; they did not truly care about the woman being stoned (where was the man who was caught in adultery?) God is the One who instituted capital punishment: “Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6). Jesus would support capital punishment in some instances. Jesus also demonstrated grace when capital punishment was due (John 8:1-11). The apostle Paul definitely recognized the power of the government to institute capital punishment where appropriate (Romans 13:1-7).

How should a Christian view the death penalty? First, we must remember that God has instituted capital punishment in His Word; therefore, it would be presumptuous of us to think that we could institute a higher standard. God has the highest standard of any being; He is perfect. This standard applies not only to us but to Himself. Therefore, He loves to an infinite degree, and He has mercy to an infinite degree. We also see that He has wrath to an infinite degree, and it is all maintained in a perfect balance.

Second, we must recognize that God has given government the authority to determine when capital punishment is due (Genesis 9:6; Romans 13:1-7). It is unbiblical to claim that God opposes the death penalty in all instances. Christians should never rejoice when the death penalty is employed, but at the same time, Christians should not fight against the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes.

www.gotquestions.org/death-penalty.html

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(where was the man who was caught in adultery?)

cnn ?

 

[AvgJoe]

cnn ?

Cable News Network?

 

[greenguzzi]

Christians should not fight against the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes.

I totally disagree. I have every right as a participating member of a democracy to vote against my representatives who are for the death penalty, and vote for those who are against it.
I also have every right to do any other legal act to thwart those who are for the death penalty.
There is nothing about being a Christian that takes away these rights.

 

[AvgJoe]

I totally disagree. I have every right as a participating member of a democracy to vote against my representatives who are for the death penalty, and vote for those who are against it.
I also have every right to do any other legal act to thwart those who are for the death penalty.
There is nothing about being a Christian that takes away these rights.

I agree with with what you're saying. In a democracy, we definitely have the right to do those things.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But every step of YHWH's instructions leaves no room for voting to change what is right and what is wrong - YHWH states clearly what is right and what is wrong, and does not ask people's opinion to make up HIS mind nor HIS sovereinty nor HIS KINGDOM / JESUS as SAVIOR, MASTER, TEACHER, HEALER, JUDGE and KING over all.

 

[Azureknight 773]

But if we don't take out terrorists, murderers, drug lords and their cohorts, then they will destroy our people as a whole. Look at ISIS for example, they killed too many people already and if their kingdom spreads then more and more people will suffer. If they get imprisoned for life, they might have spies and connections that might compromise our security. And woe be to us when our supposed large population is reduced to just a numerable by hand for letting these bad guys thrive.

Also, some politicians living a double life. On surface, they look saintly but they actually hide a nasty secret. They secretly lead the evil forces by being the protectors of the said people.

 

[Greg J.]

I have been in a dilemma as of late because of the issue of whether or not a form of Death Penalty is a must for the elimination of evil.

No, because the elimination of evil cannot come from people dying. It comes from people turning themselves over to God.

 

[Azureknight 773]

That is if they fail to turn.

Ezekiel 18:21 says
"Do I find pleasure in the death of the wicked—oracle of the Lord GOD? Do I not rejoice when they turn from their evil way and live?"

And I see those words are indeed great and I wish every bad guy does this but if the continue their ruinous path then Romans 6:23 would apply to them "For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord".

I mean, not all bad guys can be executed for if that bad guy is preordained to spread His word and does what He wants, then surely he has to be given another chance to live. As stated earlier about St. Paul where he used to be one of our enemies, he later became a big ally not just in our fight against evil but for the conversion of the many for the glory of God in Heaven.

 

[greenguzzi]

But every step of YHWH's instructions leaves no room for voting to change what is right and what is wrong - YHWH states clearly what is right and what is wrong, and does not ask people's opinion to make up HIS mind nor HIS sovereinty nor HIS KINGDOM / JESUS as SAVIOR, MASTER, TEACHER, HEALER, JUDGE and KING over all.

But how do we discern His will? God gave us reason, which along with scripture, community, discourse etc., allow us to form Godly opinions and discover His will.

YHWH doesn't clearly state what is right. (One of my few rules in life is to be very suspicious of anyone who says that the Bible or God "clearly states" anything, because what comes next is probably wrong.)

As for the subject at hand, I have no doubt at all that resisting capital punishment is God's will. All Christians should consider opposing capital punishment.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Are we talking about the death penalty for convicted criminals, or killing evil people in the defense of others? They are two distinctly different things. In the first case, the person no longer poses a threat. In the second they do.

 

[greenguzzi]

terrorists, murderers, drug lords and their cohorts

Killing terrorists will do nothing to combat terrorism. In fact it will encourage it because it feeds their sick ideology. Killing "drug lords" will also have no effect because there will will be plenty of people waiting in the wings to take their place.
As for murder, the vast majority (over 85%) of criminologists believe that capital punishment is NOT a deterrent to homicide.
There is no good moral, security, or preventative reason for capital punishment.

 

[greenguzzi]

I agree with with what you're saying. In a democracy, we definitely have the right to do those things.

In that case your earlier statement (below) no longer stands. Or did I misunderstand something?

Christians should not fight against the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes.

 

[greenguzzi]

No, because the elimination of evil cannot come from people dying. It comes from people turning themselves over to God.

That is if they fail to turn.

So, how long do we give them to turn themselves to God before we let the state kill them? A week, a year, a decade? Besides, we know that once sentenced they will be killed even if they do turn to God.

Deprive them of liberty for life, and let God kill them when He so wishes. Even I have enough faith for this.

 

[Greg J.]

Being able to identify a problem doesn't necessarily provide any information about how to resolve it. The fact is that everyone has a sinful nature, and it isn't going away, no matter what anyone does, even if everyone were to turn to God.

By the way, capital punishment is for the sake of justice. It doesn't need to have any remedial or social effect to be the right thing to do. Read the Mosaic Law to see what is just in God's eyes and what to do about it. Since we have chosen to rule ourselves instead of let God rule, everything we do other than what God said is not as beneficial for mankind. We have created a culture that is so far from what would result from obedience to God, only God can figure out what the best thing is for each of us can do for the benefit of society for the long term—which, by the way, is for each of us to choose to humble ourselves unto death before God. See the first half of Philippians 2. It is easy to complain about the problem and pose solutions, but are you yourself a part of the problem or part of the solution?

if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” (Romans 2:19-24, 1984 NIV)

God is still blasphemed 2000 years later because of Christian behavior.

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10, 1984 NIV)

Forgiveness does not mean a person doesn't have to be executed. Remember there was a man named Jesus who had to die for justice to be done. Our realistic goal is to help people know the truth of the only way to be saved, but complete salvation isn't happening for anyone in this life.

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. (2 Timothy 4:2-4, 1984 NIV)

 

[AvgJoe]

I agree with with what you're saying. In a democracy, we definitely have the right to do those things.

In that case your earlier statement (below) no longer stands. Or did I misunderstand something?

Christians should not fight against the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes.

No, I stand by my earlier statement. Understanding that capital punishment is only about justice and that the governing authorities receive their authority from God (Romans 13:1-7), I'm in agreement with it and don't think Christian's should fight against it. But, in countries such as ours, where democracy reigns and gives us certain freedoms to try to change things, within the bounds of what is legal, then yes, a Christian has the right to use those means to try to change things, if they so choose.

 

[AvgJoe]

staff edit

1) If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2) If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. 3) If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing. 4) Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5) or rude. (1 Corinthians 13:1-5)

 

[Sketcher]

I for one support the St. Paul argument only when it truly applies. We Christians all know that St. Paul was like an executioner of the Faithful back in the times as Saul of Tarsus. That guy killed directly or indirectly our earliest brothers and sisters to the point where he is like a Darth Vader of sorts if we look at contemporary medias' eyes. He even allowed the death of his fellow saint whose name is St. Stephan (Stephen... Correct me if I am wrong) to death by stoning. But one day, he was visited by the Lord on his way to Damascus and we pretty much know what happened from there on. He became one of God's most powerful allies in His will to spread His Gospel to the Gentiles, who helped spread it worldwide from Europe. If a powerful sinner cordially repents and cries to his or her own sins and asks God for forgiveness and consolidation after all of the evil they've done, does what he does to help the good guys win... Then that guy shall obviously live but at with guilt in his heart.

However, if the evil ones do not ever repent and mourn for their sins then he must be punished all the way. Now this Death Penalty could apply to these people since stopping them with words won't be suffice.

What are your thoughts in this controversial matter?

St. Paul, as you mentioned, received mercy. He was a big fan of mercy, otherwise he wouldn't have repeatedly risked his life to spread the Gospel, which is God's means of mercy. However, he also wrote Romans 13:1-7, including these words in verse 4: "But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer."

Bear the sword. Avenger. God's wrath. It's clear to me that he supported the death penalty as punishment for evil deeds. If Paul can support it, I can support it.