Is it Possible to be a Decent person and support Pro-Choice Candidates?

[Literal Word]

Prior to the late 70's and early 80's, abortion was simply not a major issue among Protestants in the US. Even many in the Southern Baptist Convention supported Roe vs. Wade.

Hmm... I'm wondering if that had anything to do with the false propaganda that abortion was simply removing a clump of unformed cells. The technology and information we have today makes it clear what happening, it's called murder and yes that is evil. I know you don't see a problem with such things and I can only pray you will someday because one could argue your position does not work out favorably in the end analysis.

 

[FireDragon76]

Hmm... I'm wondering if that had anything to do with the false propaganda that abortion was simply removing a clump of unformed cells. The technology and information we have today makes it clear what happening, it's called murder and yes that is evil. I know you don't see a problem with such things and I can only pray you will someday because one could argue your position does not work out favorably in the end analysis.

It had nothing to do with advances in medical technology and everything to do with changing politics. Religious denominations experienced a reactionary resurgency in the 70's and 80's as a backlash to the cultural revolution of the 60's and the liberal mainline Protestant consensus. Lutherans, Baptist, and others all experienced a backlash from cultural conservatives who attempted to seize the reigns of power in their respective denominations.

But in reality it was also the efforts of individual Christians, particularly those of a Reformed evangelical persuasion, looking for an issue to use as a proxy for their narrative of cultural decline. People such as Francis Schaeffer and his son were some of the earliest to dramatize what they saw as the horror of Roe vs. Wade (thousands of baby dolls tossed on top of the Dead Sea for instance). Jerry Fallwell didn't even want to initially talk about abortion until Schaeffer persuaded him to do so.

 

[Literal Word]

It's my first day too and I share your sentiment, though I have a feeling that the majority of people here don't support abortion and there are just a vocal few who do. (I hope I'm right about that.) Abortion gets rid of a unique soul and therefore is murder; there can be no rational argument against that. The main issue is that people want to be able to do whatever they want with their bodies, so they try to find ways to justify baby murder.

I read an interesting book recently called "Democrats for Life" and I learned that the Democratic party has not always been so strongly pro-abortion. As recently as the 1970s and 1980s, roughly half of Democrats in Congress were pro-life (and many Republicans were pro-choice). Unfortunately, abortion has become a primary dividing line between the parties. One would think that Democrats, who tend to support the poor and weak, would want to protect the weakest of us all--but sadly, most don't. There are still a few pro-life Democrats, but not many.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of either party. I tend to vote Republican or third party. I could never vote for anyone who supports abortion.

Yes, I figured out that I had triggered some with my post. I admit I was about to delete my account thinking what kind of forum I have sign on to. Still shocked I don't have more pro life Christians responding. Thank you for your willingness to stand up and call it out for what it is. God Bless!! Oh, I agree on the parties as well. I used to be staunchly Republican but their ranks are full of self serving folks as well. I could never vote democrat though because of this issue. It's too cut and dry but Republicans have their own set of issues themselves. It's hard for me to pick out anyone in DC who is not corrupt but I hope there are a few.

 

[Literal Word]

It had nothing to do with advances in medical technology and everything to do with changing politics. Religious denominations experienced a reactionary resurgency in the 70's and 80's as a backlash to the cultural revolution of the 60's and the liberal mainline Protestant consensus. Lutherans, Baptist, and others all experienced a backlash from cultural conservatives who attempted to seize the reigns of power in their respective denominations.

But in reality it was also the efforts of Christians looking for an issue to use as a proxy for their narrative of cultural decline. People such as Francis Schaeffer and his son were some of the earliest to dramatize what they saw as the horror of Roe vs. Wade (thousands of baby dolls tossed on top of the Dead Sea for instance). Jerry Fallwell didn't even want to initially talk about abortion until Schaeffer persuaded him to do so.

Hey, I'll admit I didn't even read your post after spotting something on politics again. Look, you are free to think murdering babies is a political, not moral, issue. I am certainly not your judge. You do have one though and I wish you luck on arguing your position then. God Bless!!

 

[His student]

............... In todays politics, the line has been drawn as clearly as ever. One party is now even refusing to save the lives of children that survive an abortion. I am just wondering what liberal political issue is so important to support that the voter can overlook the sinister practice of killing the unborn. ......

I suppose that abortion rights can be a tricky issue in some particular cases.

But the modern Democrat party has drawn the line pretty clearly.

IMO - no person with the Spirit of God in them and in the slightest way open to His leading can possibly in good conscience be a Democrat.

I said "IMO". But to me it should be a no-brainer to anyone with the mind of Christ.

 

[gideon123]

OP

No, I am sorry. You are wrong.

Yes, I understand that you are distressed by the killing of children and unborn babies. Yes, I get it. But where in the Bible does it say that one sin and only one sin, is important in the eyes of God? And every other sin can be ignored? Show me what verse says this! I do not carry such a Bible.

The great mistake of Evangelicals (some, not all) is to politicize Christianity in America. And now the deep stains of dirty politics rub off on the whole Evangrlical movement, and they rub off on Jesus himself.

Did you not watch testimony on Capitol Hill this week? WHo Knows a man better than his own lawyer, where real thougjts are shared? What did the President's own lawyer say about his real behavior? HIs words ... A liar, a conman and a racist.

Truly, deep deep stains have spilled onto Evangelicals. They will not wash off so easily. And God will punish this nation for giving lip service to His word.

We need to set aside what is Holy and give it our first priority. We have not done this.

Blessings.

 

[Literal Word]

OP

No, I am sorry. You are wrong.

Yes, I understand that you are distressed by the killing of children and unborn babies. Yes, I get it. But where in the Bible does it say that one sin and only one sin, is important in the eyes of God? And every other sin can be ignored? Show me what verse says this! I do not carry such a Bible.

The great mistake of Evangelicals (some, not all) is to politicize Christianity in America. And now the deep stains of dirty politics rub off on the whole Evangrlical movement, and they rub off on Jesus himself.

Did you not watch testimony on Capitol Hill this week? WHo Knows a man better than his own lawyer, where real thougjts are shared? What did the President's own lawyer say about his real behavior? HIs words ... A liar, a conman and a racist.

Truly, deep deep stains have spilled onto Evangelicals. They will not wash off so easily. And God will punish this nation for giving lip service to His word.

We need to set aside what is Holy and give it our first priority. We have not done this.

Blessings.

I'm sorry, I could not for the life of me figure out what you are trying to say. Something about politics, evangelicals and Trump being a racist is the best I could cipher. Can you just tell me if you support abortion? That should make whatever you were rambling on about a little more clear please. Thank you.

 

[Literal Word]

I suppose that abortion rights can be a tricky issue in some particular cases.

But the modern Democrat party has drawn the line pretty clearly.

IMO - no person with the Spirit of God in them and in the slightest way open to His leading can possibly in good conscience be a Democrat.

I said "IMO". But to me it should be a no-brainer to anyone with the mind of Christ.

Count me as part of your IMO! lol There are some people posting every possible fallacious and nonsensical argument for killing babies being in line with good Christian doctrine on this thread. They are trying desperately to turn their own sinful desires into righteousness and unfortunately that is not possible.

 

[HoneyBee]

Just what the title asks. How can someone claim any level of decency and support candidates who support the murder of unborn babies. In todays politics, the line has been drawn as clearly as ever. One party is now even refusing to save the lives of children that survive an abortion. I am just wondering what liberal political issue is so important to support that the voter can overlook the sinister practice of killing the unborn. Honestly I would like to know because at this point I am inclined to believe there is no justification for supporting pro-choice candidates any longer and perhaps never has been since Roe v Wade. By the way, I'm not some rabid neocon ultra conservative either. The GOP spends too much themselves, is full of crooks as well, and are warmongers in general.

I've been wondering about this too ever since becoming pro-life at the beginning of this year. It was such a difficult decision to make, but in the end, I don't think that I could morally support someone who supports the murder of children at ANY stage, but especially not after they are already born or old enough to survive leaving the womb.

I think you could personally be a decent person while supporting pro-choice candidates. As for whether you are making morally sound decisions by supporting them... I don't think so.

I've decided to join a third party that better suits what I believe in, personally. I would join the Republicans, but I don't agree with them on a few points, so I'd rather go with a party that aligns more with my beliefs, even if it is in the minority. That way, I'll be able to say that I'm voting in a way that feels more moral to me.

 

[Literal Word]

I've been wondering about this too ever since becoming pro-life at the beginning of this year. It was such a difficult decision to make, but in the end, I don't think that I could morally support someone who supports the murder of children at ANY stage, but especially not after they are already born or old enough to survive leaving the womb.

I think you could personally be a decent person while supporting pro-choice candidates. As for whether you are making morally sound decisions by supporting them... I don't think so.

I've decided to join a third party that better suits what I believe in, personally. I would join the Republicans, but I don't agree with them on a few points, so I'd rather go with a party that aligns more with my beliefs, even if it is in the minority. That way, I'll be able to say that I'm voting in a way that feels more moral to me.

I have come to the conclusion there are no "good" political parties. I think most every politician is as crooked as the Mississippi river! lol All politics are man's effort at legislating morality and man's righteousness is as filthy rags. We will not ever have a good ruler until Christ The King returns!! Unfortunately, I doubt any 3rd party is any more Godly. I don't think God wanted man to place other men in rule over them if what scripture tells us about Nimrod and the Hebrews wanting a king to rule over them after the period of the Judges tells us anything. He is to be our Lord but I do understand your sentiment.

 

[Kaon]

Just what the title asks. How can someone claim any level of decency and support candidates who support the murder of unborn babies. In todays politics, the line has been drawn as clearly as ever. One party is now even refusing to save the lives of children that survive an abortion. I am just wondering what liberal political issue is so important to support that the voter can overlook the sinister practice of killing the unborn. Honestly I would like to know because at this point I am inclined to believe there is no justification for supporting pro-choice candidates any longer and perhaps never has been since Roe v Wade. By the way, I'm not some rabid neocon ultra conservative either. The GOP spends too much themselves, is full of crooks as well, and are warmongers in general.

What is decency, and is it a universally accepted set of codes?

That is the problem...

 

[Literal Word]

Except you are using the term murder to describe something that is not, in fact, murder.

Oh, I see. You call murdering babies women's reproductive health care. Call it whatever you like, the reality and end result is murder, period. By definition, you end up with a dead baby that someone intentionally killed. Quit trying to paint something clearly evil with a coat of glory.

 

[Literal Word]

What is decency, and is it a universally accepted set of codes?

That is the problem...

Fair enough, we won't try to define decency. Can you admit that killing babies is despicable? Is that going too far out on a limb for purposes of our discussion?

 

[His student]

OP

No, I am sorry. You are wrong.

Yes, I understand that you are distressed by the killing of children and unborn babies. Yes, I get it. But where in the Bible does it say that one sin and only one sin, is important in the eyes of God? And every other sin can be ignored? Show me what verse says this! I do not carry such a Bible.

The great mistake of Evangelicals (some, not all) is to politicize Christianity in America. And now the deep stains of dirty politics rub off on the whole Evangrlical movement, and they rub off on Jesus himself.

Did you not watch testimony on Capitol Hill this week? WHo Knows a man better than his own lawyer, where real thougjts are shared? What did the President's own lawyer say about his real behavior? HIs words ... A liar, a conman and a racist.

Truly, deep deep stains have spilled onto Evangelicals. They will not wash off so easily. And God will punish this nation for giving lip service to His word.

We need to set aside what is Holy and give it our first priority. We have not done this.

Blessings.

What is decency, and is it a universally accepted set of codes?

Decency is to protect innocent human beings and not compromise with anyone (or party) that oppresses them.

Jesus Christ was the arch typical human being. That is to say that He was fully human. Otherwise He could not have atoned for the sins of mankind.

I would ask anyone with the Holy Spirit in them to lead them into truth - in which "tri-mester" did Jesus Christ become full human.

Was it in the second? Was it in the third? Was it when He had come out of the womb and been pronounce "viable" by some sinner?

The answer, of course, is that Jesus Christ became fully human at the instant of conception.

That being the case - there should be no doubt for any born again Christian as to when life starts in the womb. There should therefore be no doubt as to the human identity of the innocent life that is being taken in abortion. There should, for darn sure, be no doubt as to the innocent humanity lying on a cold metal table after a live birth.

Having, hopefully, firmly established these truths in the minds of those who name the name of Christ - they now have a rather straight forward dilemma before them vis a vis whom they support in the U.S. political arena.

Any party which consistently supports the taking of innocent human life at any stage whatsoever - is not worthy of the support of those representing the Lord on the earth as His body.

The choice is simple.

Compromise because you hate the idea of a wall, want universally paid healthcare, or hate the current President's personality - or obey the one with whom you have to do.

 

[Kaon]

Fair enough, we won't try to define decency. Can you admit that killing babies is despicable? Is that going too far out on a limb for purposes of our discussion?

It is not too far to say killing babies is despicable... for me.

But, what is a baby?


That is the degeneracy of the age in which we live. Everything has been marginalized.

 

[Literal Word]

It is not too far to say killing babies is despicable... for me.

But, what is a baby?


That is the degeneracy of the age in which we live. Everything has been marginalized.

Agreed. Man has long ago determined that if one twists words and meanings he may turn anything evil into an example of beauty and love. Through the centuries, that sinister art has been nearly perfected. Abortion is a perfect example. While it is plainly murder and plainly despicable, it has been repackaged by the bloodthirsty into women's reproductive healthcare. Still others cloak their murderous intent as compassionate from the sick and twisted perspective that the child may not have a good life. That is particularly good insight Kaon although I'm not sure that's the point you were wishing to make.

 

[Halbhh]

Just what the title asks. How can someone claim any level of decency and support candidates who support the murder of unborn babies. In todays politics, the line has been drawn as clearly as ever. One party is now even refusing to save the lives of children that survive an abortion. I am just wondering what liberal political issue is so important to support that the voter can overlook the sinister practice of killing the unborn. Honestly I would like to know because at this point I am inclined to believe there is no justification for supporting pro-choice candidates any longer and perhaps never has been since Roe v Wade. By the way, I'm not some rabid neocon ultra conservative either. The GOP spends too much themselves, is full of crooks as well, and are warmongers in general.

In a word -- No.

And what about pro-death-penalty candidates also?

Or candidates that support the more extreme positions on guns, like preventing even criminal background checks that over 90% of Americans support?

----------
When I saw your headline though only part of it was visible and it read:
"Is it Possible to be a Decent..." -- stopping at the word 'decent'.

So that for a moment I wondered perhaps it read: "Is it possible to be a Decent Person and support Donald Trump?"

But then a moment later I thought of several more possibilities also (so it's not about trump in particular, but about *all* political candidates, which typically fall short of God's perfection)

I think this helps! --

Luke 18:19 "Why do you call Me good?" Jesus replied. "No one is good except God alone.

So, like everyone else, when any of us vote for whatever candidate, we are not voting for a perfect person.

But we can indeed try to vote for someone that would tend to less support things that kill people!

 

[FenderTL5]

This is my first day on this forum and I'm shocked by so many who don't see a problem with murdering babies and calling themselves Christian...

Then you may want to sit down and have a cool towel handy when you process this information from Lifeway Research, the Southern Baptists;
70% of all abortions are by those claiming to be Christians (linkage).

 

[Kevin1985]

I have come to the conclusion there are no "good" political parties. I think most every politician is as crooked as the Mississippi river! lol All politics are man's effort at legislating morality and man's righteousness is as filthy rags. We will not ever have a good ruler until Christ The King returns!! Unfortunately, I doubt any 3rd party is any more Godly. I don't think God wanted man to place other men in rule over them if what scripture tells us about Nimrod and the Hebrews wanting a king to rule over them after the period of the Judges tells us anything. He is to be our Lord but I do understand your sentiment.

There are multiple passages in the Bible that explain why we have kings/rulers over us and that we are to obey them (unless they tell us to disobey God) and pray for them. See 1 Peter 2 (especially verse 14) and Romans 13.

 

[Kevin1985]

Then you may want to sit down and have a cool towel handy when you process this information from Lifeway Research, the Southern Baptists;
70% of all abortions are by those claiming to be Christians (linkage).

I work in a high school where most students claim to be Christians but few if any demonstrate fruit that they actually are. So out of that 70%, how many actually are born again? Probably very few. We also have a fair number of girls who are pregnant or who have a kid. Despite their numerous sins, I am always grateful to see that they chose life for their babies.