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Featured Is it possible for one to "fall away" or lose salvation once saved, and what does "falling away"?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. Tharseo

    Tharseo Member

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    True. True. I am not challenging your views on these things. But the point is, sometimes you need to be precise and be cautious about how you apply the Scripture to answer a question, instead of throwing out what you know. Sometimes a certain teaching can seem contradictory to another. It is best not to confuse the person who asked.

    What I am saying, is that the teaching of "no judging" is not suitable, and the teaching of "identifying false prophets" is more suitable to answer the question the OP asked.

    Being a caring person, listen to what others say and think what the others need most, is more important than trying to pour out all the teachings you know to others. Explore the richness of The Scripture. Let not your knowledge of God be limited to certain teachings that you are familiar
     
  2. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So, it is those who who do not keep the commandments that have fallen (away) from Grace...?

    Or who are the ones who have fallen away from the faith or have fallen from or turned their backs on Grace...?

    God Bless!
     
  3. Tharseo

    Tharseo Member

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    Actually, would you prove the opposite? How is this verse talking about "an actual physical life saving from harm"? Is it true that God promised a Christian will have an actual physical life saving from harm?

    The Book of Hebrews speaks to Christians, for sure, Jewish or not. Falling away from discipleship/faith is essentially the same as losing eternal life.

    In 1 Corinthians 9:27, even Paul says that he could be disqualified.

    Demas, see 2 Timothy 4:10. He was following Paul before, see Colossians 4:14 and Philemon 1:24.
     
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Thanks. My method is Berean more than anything since I've not listened to a sermon in the last decade or so.
     
  5. Tharseo

    Tharseo Member

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    I highly recommend you to study the Bible and find out what it says, instead of just listening to us. Listening to what other people say is not wrong, but everyone must be able to verify what others say with the correct usage of the Scripture. Otherwise, your faith is not a faith to God, but a faith built upon other people's faith. That is a dangerous thing for any followers of Christ, since what we built should be on Christ alone.

    Acts 17:11
    Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
     
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Can't you guys tell me...? Or not...?

    And I do know my bible and what the Bible says you know, but thanks anyway...

    God Bless!
     
  7. Tharseo

    Tharseo Member

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    Wow. I just quote the same passage and you brought that up. :)

    But listening to what others say is also important. The Berean does not listen to the Scripture alone, but also Paul and Silas. Listening to sermons are quite essential, if they come from the servant of God. Not listening to them is an act of disobedience.
     
  8. Tharseo

    Tharseo Member

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    Even if someone explains it to you for three days, it will not help you in any way.

    The knowing of the truth requires you to do your homework and try to work out your own understanding first, before asking anyone. Asking for answers without a thoughtful study on the Scripture, is like feeding on what people give you, which could be toxic. You cannot just hope someone answers your questions and assumes the person speaks the truth.

    Could you analyse other people's views in accordance to the Bible? Mind you that even the devil use the Bible. People who use the Bible do not necessarily speak the truth. If not, I recommend you not to read any further in this thread.
     
  9. JacobKStarkey

    JacobKStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Denominations come away from scriptures on the OP's issue and question with different answers.

    For me, I don't worry about it at all. I accept Jesus Christ as my lord and saviour and have for many decades. Thus, I try to serve Him to my best ability every single day. When I fail, I repents and pray for forgiveness.
     
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  10. Tharseo

    Tharseo Member

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    True. In fellowship with Christ is so much more important than the knowledge of any doctrine.
     
  11. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    Judas was never a true believer;
    One can't lose salvation because we are abed by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. It is a work of God and not ourselves lest anyone should boast(Ephesians 2:8-9). Salvation is a gift of God and God's gifts are irrevocable (romans 11:29).

    Falling ways is referenced in Hebrews 6:6 and reading the scripture in context, it doesn't refer to true believers. The chapter starts with imploring believers to move from the ordinary milk to meat. The next scriptures are surely meat and many of us have misinterpreted them. In Hebrews 10, we see an illustration of believers "Falling into the hands of the Living God". In Hebrews 6:4-8, it's about falling away. It is possible for one to be numbered among and obtain a part in the ministry (Acts 1:16) . They can be considered among believers yet they are truly not. Judas was one of them and Satan entered him(took possession) of him to show whose he truly was.
    And it was impossible to renew him back to repentance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I guess that's OK, they are kind of more rhetorical questions anyway...

    God Bless!
     
  13. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Their are many times throughout the Bible of God saving believers from harm, Daniel in the lions den, God saved Paul many times and there are also examples when a believer sins and God takes their life, they do not loose their eternal life but they loose their physical life here on earth ananias and sapphira any many believers lost their physical lives at the Lords supper (1 Corinthians 11) but they did not loose their eternal life.
    1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

    Paul is speaking of rewards, in 1 Corinthians nothing is mention of racing to obtain eternal life.

    Deserting Paul is not equal to loosing eternal life.
     
  14. DaveM

    DaveM New Member

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    live right with God and it wont be a question, is the best answer I ever herd.
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There are many Scripture verses clearly showing us that a believer can fall away due to sin. However, the sin of taking the mark (i.e. worshiping the beast) is not one of them.

    Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8 says that those who worship the beast never had their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world.
     
  16. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    What is the best way to truly do that...? and be doing it right and doing it God's way...? and what happens if we do not fully live up to it in the end, ect...?

    God Bless!
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

    Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

    1 Samuel 16:14
    1 Samuel 31:4
    Ezekiel 18:24
    Hebrews 3:12-14
    Hebrews 4:11
    Hebrews 6:4-9
    Hebrews 10:26-30
    Hebrews 12:15
    1 Timothy 1:18-20
    1 Timothy 4:1-7
    Galatians 3:1-5
    2 Peter 2:20-22
    2 Peter 3:17
    Matthew 13:18-23
    1 Corinthians 10:12
    2 Thessalonians 2:3

    Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation, but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

    Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

    Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
    Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
    The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
    Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
    Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
    Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
    Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
    Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
    Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
    Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

    And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

    The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
    Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
    The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
    Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
    Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
    Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
    Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
    Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
    Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
    The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
    (James 5:19-20)

    For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).
     
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  18. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    No where in the Bible is their a verse or an example of a Believer loosing their eternal life. No where.

    Saul went to be with Samuel
    19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me.

    If a person believes they can loose their eternal life (salvation).
    Then their object of faith must be looking to their own self and not to the eternal life giving Jesus, The promised Messiah from The Old Testament.

    Once a person looks to The Messiah (Jesus) and trust in Him for His gift of His eternal life, they cross over from death to life. Never to cross back over to spiritual death.
     
  19. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We can safely say Bart Ehrman has fallen away. Maybe follow his path to discover what it looks like to turn away from the truth yet teach it at the same time.
     
  20. Tharseo

    Tharseo Member

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    No they are not. It is a matter of life or death. It affects how you act. Do you act righteously in the fear of God, or just being a "casual" Christian who does not closely follow the commandment of Christ, thinking you are already saved anyway?
     
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