Is it ok to have a statue in your house?

MrPolo

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What about the fact that they are bowing down to the statues and according to the Bible, one should not bow down to statues?

One should not bow down to give a statue worship due to God alone. Scripture does not forbid bowing to give another honor. For example:

There are numerous cases in Scripture where bowing is a sign of reverence, awe, or respect apart from the worship due to God alone.
Joshua 5:13-15 Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, "Are you for us or for our enemies?" "Neither," he replied, "but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come." Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, "What message does my Lord have for his servant?" The commander of the LORD's army replied, "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy." And Joshua did so.

Daniel 8:15-18 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice from the Ulai calling, "Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision." 17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. "Son of man," he said to me, "understand that the vision concerns the time of the end." 18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet.

Genesis 18:1-5 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. 3 He said, "If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant." "Very well," they answered, "do as you say."

Genesis 23:7-9 Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites. 8 He said to them, "If you are willing to let me bury my dead, then listen to me and intercede with Ephron son of Zohar on my behalf 9 so he will sell me the cave of Machpelah, which belongs to him and is at the end of his field. Ask him to sell it to me for the full price as a burial site among you." (Abraham specifically bows and asks for intercession to others)

Numbers 22:31 Then the Lord opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown.

1 Samuel 20:41 After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with his face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together—but David wept the most.

2 Samuel 9:6-8 6 When Mephibosheth son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, came to David, he bowed down to pay him honor. David said, "Mephibosheth!" "Your servant," he replied. 7 "Don't be afraid," David said to him, "for I will surely show you kindness for the sake of your father Jonathan. I will restore to you all the land that belonged to your grandfather Saul, and you will always eat at my table." 8 Mephibosheth bowed down and said, "What is your servant, that you should notice a dead dog like me?"

Luke 24:4-6 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee...
If you read the Catechism quote I provided, the bowing in proximity to a statue is not bowing "to the statue" but giving reverence to the other member of the Body of Christ. So your argument is a strawman.
 
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MrPolo

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Well done. I read these scriptures in context and I didn't see any references to praying to anyone who is dead either.

Please provide a Scripture that says there are certain members of the Body of Christ from whom we are not allowed to ask for intercession. Please also read and enjoy the beautiful Scriptures in post 346. :)
 
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christianmomof3

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She intercedes, though her body is dust.
The Jews since before the time of Christ asked for her intercession.
Can you please show where Jews prayed to Rachel? I was raised Jewish and have never heard of that.

The body of Christ is not divided, and we are united in the Holy Spirit. The physical ears are not needed to hear the Holy Spirit.
That is true. I think we will hear the Lord even after we have died. But nowhere are we told that dead people can hear living people.
So, how do those in heaven present the prayers of those on earth ?

As far as how the prayers of the saints got into the bowls in Revelation - that is a very figurative verse and it just does not say. Do you think the bowls are literal bowls? The book of Revelation is symbolic in nature and there are a couple of verses that do mention the prayers of the saints, however there are no verses that say that anyone living prayed to anyone dead. Any speculation about how the prayers of the saints got into the bowls would only be speculation.
 
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christianmomof3

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One should not bow down to give a statue worship due to God alone. Scripture does not forbid bowing to give another honor. For example:
That is true, and I did state in an earlier post that bowing down was also done to living people. And as you have shown, it was also done in the presence of visible angels who looked like people.
However, there are no examples in the Bible of anyone being told to bow down to a statue. Any examples of anyone bowing down to a statue in the Bible is always negative and seen as idolatry.
There are numerous cases in Scripture where bowing is a sign of reverence, awe, or respect apart from the worship due to God alone.If you read the Catechism quote I provided, the bowing in proximity to a statue is not bowing "to the statue" but giving reverence to the other member of the Body of Christ.
I am sorry. I must have missed that. Where is your quote from your catechism about bowing to statues?
 
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Thekla

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Can you please show where Jews prayed to Rachel? I was raised Jewish and have never heard of that.
You can research Rachel's Tomb online; the sources I have read (including the Stone edition of the Tanach) state that this has been done since Joseph first entreated his mother at her tomb when he was carried into slavery in Egypt.


That is true. I think we will hear the Lord even after we have died. But nowhere are we told that dead people can hear living people.
It is the Holy Spirit who binds us that makes the "hearing" possible.


As far as how the prayers of the saints got into the bowls in Revelation - that is a very figurative verse and it just does not say. Do you think the bowls are literal bowls? The book of Revelation is symbolic in nature and there are a couple of verses that do mention the prayers of the saints, however there are no verses that say that anyone living prayed to anyone dead. Any speculation about how the prayers of the saints got into the bowls would only be speculation.

That the prayers of those on earth are offered to God by those in heaven is Scriptural truth.

That the body of Christ is bound by the Holy Spirit is scriptural truth as well, also that all of the body of Christ is needful.
 
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christianmomof3

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You can research Rachel's Tomb online; the sources I have read (including the Stone edition of the Tanach) state that this has been done since Joseph first entreated his mother at her tomb when he was carried into slavery in Egypt.
Are there examples of it in the Bible? Do you personally know any Jewish people who pray to Rachel? I personally know a lot of Jewish people and have never in my life heard of praying to Rachel.

That the prayers of those on earth are offered to God by those in heaven is Scriptural truth.

That there are no examples in the Bible of anyone praying to anyone who has died is also truth.
 
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Thekla

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Are there examples of it in the Bible? Do you personally know any Jewish people who pray to Rachel? I personally know a lot of Jewish people and have never in my life heard of praying to Rachel.

I've never asked, but this does not impact the facts of the matter.



That there are no examples in the Bible of anyone praying to anyone who has died is also truth.
Those who have died in Christ are not dead. That is also a scriptural fact.
 
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MrPolo

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But nowhere are we told that dead people can hear living people.

Acts 9:36-40 In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas), who was always doing good and helping the poor. About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. Lydda was near Joppa; so when the disciples heard that Peter was in Lydda, they sent two men to him and urged him, "Please come at once!" Peter went with them, and when he arrived he was taken upstairs to the room. All the widows stood around him, crying and showing him the robes and other clothing that Dorcas had made while she was still with them. Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, "Tabitha, get up." She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up.​

It is understandable for you to think someone in heaven could not hear our prayers because according to biology and physics, one needs an auricular device, like a human ear, to hear things. However, why do we try to apply the physics of time and space to that of the heavenly realm which exists external to time and space? Do angels watch over us without actual optical organs called eyes? Yes, they do.
 
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christianmomof3

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Try post 329. :)
This is the teaching straight from the Catechism.
CC#1232 Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.
:doh: sorry
That is probably where I got to the topic of praying to dead people since the statues that ya'll pray to are of dead people and according to your catechism, you are not praying to the statue itself, but to the dead person who the statue represents.
 
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MrPolo

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That there are no examples in the Bible of anyone praying to anyone who has died is also truth.

There are examples all over Scripture of one member of the Body of Christ asking another member for intercession. Nowhere does Scripture say the heavenly members are "off-limits." In fact, as Thekla said, Scripture tells us the Body of Christ is united.

I'm also curious, if there is not an explicit example of a behavior in the Bible, do you believe that behavior must be wrong?
 
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Thekla

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Matter is imbued with life by God; life does not arise from matter.

When the body dies, then biological life ceases, but biology is not the source nor the sustainer of life; God is. Paul teaches that not even death can separate us from the love of God; he teaches that when we leave our "tent" we sill be with Christ.

To associate matter with life is a teaching of some pagans, but is not supported in the Holy Scriptures.
 
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christianmomof3

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Acts 9:36-40 In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas), who was always doing good and helping the poor. About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. Lydda was near Joppa; so when the disciples heard that Peter was in Lydda, they sent two men to him and urged him, "Please come at once!" Peter went with them, and when he arrived he was taken upstairs to the room. All the widows stood around him, crying and showing him the robes and other clothing that Dorcas had made while she was still with them. Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, "Tabitha, get up." She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up.​

It is understandable for you to think someone in heaven could not hear our prayers because according to biology and physics, one needs an auricular device, like a human ear, to hear things. However, why do we try to apply the physics of time and space to that of the heavenly realm which exists external to time and space? Do angels watch over us without actual optical organs called eyes? Yes, they do.
That is an interesting example.
In your example, the dead body was physically present in front of Peter.
Are there any examples of dead people who have been buried and their bodies have rotted in the grave being prayed to or spoken to by living people in the Bible?

When angels are depicted in the Bible, they are described as men, and they have eyes. And ears.
 
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christianmomof3

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Matter is imbued with life by God; life does not arise from matter.

When the body dies, then biological life ceases, but biology is not the source nor the sustainer of life; God is. Paul teaches that not even death can separate us from the love of God; he teaches that when we leave our "tent" we sill be with Christ.

To associate matter with life is a teaching of some pagans, but is not supported in the Holy Scriptures.


It is true that death cannot separate us from the love of God.
Even in death we will be with God. He, however, is living and not dead.
Death does, however, separate the living people from the dead people.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Incense appears to represent our prayers if you look into it, here they are burning incense to Baal (also spoken of in the NT as well)

Here it says...

Jerm 7:8-11 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.

Expressed here...

Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Follow through in Jerm where he says...

Jerm 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Jesus says here in accord...

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

The disciples ask the Lord to teach them what to say when they pray here...

Luke 11:1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

Luke 11:2 When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Unto Thee all flesh shall come...

Psalm 65:2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.

Let my prayer be as incense set before thee here

Psalms 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

1Kings 8:49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause,

The smoke of the incense came with the prayers of the Saints "before Him" here...

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

Verses here it says...

Jerm 1:16 And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands.

2Kings 22:17 Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched.

Jerm 44:5 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense unto other gods.

Examples in the NT unto God for others


Acts 12:5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.

Phil 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Now here instead of Baal speaks to what they considered " the queen of heaven"

Jerm 44:25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

Jerm 44:27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.

Now here it mentions setting his incense before another

Ezek 16:17-18 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

As incense is a type for prayer that is shown set before Him

Psalms 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.


Just few examples to check out
 
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Thekla

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It is true that death cannot separate us from the love of God.
Even in death we will be with God. He, however, is living and not dead.
Death does, however, separate the living people from the dead people.

God is love, God is the author of life. Adam and Eve turned away from God who is life, and death entered the world.

All who are with God, who are in Christ, are in Life.
The particular biological condition of those who are in Christ is irrelevant.

If we do not turn away from Christ, we are in Life; the body of Christ is made up of those who are in Life. This body is bound by the Holy Spirit.

Paul teaches, "those who have been baptised in Christ have put on Christ forevermore".
 
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christianmomof3

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Incense appears to represent our prayers if you look into it,

Now here it mentions setting his incense before another

Ezek 16:17-18 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

That is a very interesting example. Incense does indeed represent our prayers in the Bible and that example in Ezekiel shows how the Lord regards prayer to anyone or anything other than to Himself. He sees it as harlotry and abomination and if you read all of Ez ch. 16, the consequences of it are dire.
 
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Thekla

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That is a very interesting example. Incense does indeed represent our prayers in the Bible and that example in Ezekiel shows how the Lord regards prayer to anyone or anything other than to Himself. He sees it as harlotry and abomination and if you read all of Ez ch. 16, the consequences of it are dire.

In Romans, Paul also gives a list of consequences that result from idolatry.
 
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christianmomof3

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God is love, God is the author of life. Adam and Eve turned away from God who is life, and death entered the world.

All who are with God, who are in Christ, are in Life.
The particular biological condition of those who are in Christ is irrelevant.

If we do not turn away from Christ, we are in Life; the body of Christ is made up of those who are in Life. This body is bound by the Holy Spirit.

Paul teaches, "those who have been baptised in Christ have put on Christ forevermore".

That still does not tell us that we should pray to the dead. Even if the dead are alive in Christ, nowhere is anyone told to pray to them nor is any example of any living person praying to a physically dead person shown in the Bible. Paul did not do it nor did anyone in the NT that we are told about.
 
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