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Is it ok to have a statue in your house?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by MrPolo, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    Here is one of the words for entreat, used in the New Testament; the verses for each book can be read by clicking on the book (linked on the right).

    Parakaleo - New American Standard Greek Lexicon

    and another:

    Here is a fuller list (by word):
  2. christianmomof3

    christianmomof3 pursuing Christ

    That is asking and it is always done to living human beings.
    It is not prayer.
    Prayer is always directed to God or to idols or false gods.
    If you look at the verses in your sources it is always living people asking other living people something.
  3. MrPolo

    MrPolo Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20

    You have not seen anyone on EWTN praying TO a statue. The statue facilitates our mindset to focus on God or another saint who we would like to ask to pray for us (Just as Paul did in Rm 15:30 for example).

    This is the teaching straight from the Catechism.
    CC#1232 Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.
    A lot of times, people observe the person asking for intercession and assume they are worshipping the statue. Such a conclusion is fallacious. Many opponents of Catholics will continue to ignore this and proceed with a bunch of Scripture that we shouldn't worship statues, which Catholics agree with. I hope you will not become one of those people. :)
  4. christianmomof3

    christianmomof3 pursuing Christ

    What about the fact that they are bowing down to the statues and according to the Bible, one should not bow down to statues?

    If you look up bowing down in the Bible, it was only done before God, or before people in some cases such as to the king, and to idols.
    Again, it is best to read the whole chapters to see the context.

    Isaiah 44:19
    No one stops to think, no one has the knowledge or understanding to say, "Half of it I used for fuel; I even baked bread over its coals, I roasted meat and I ate. Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left? Shall I bow down to a block of wood?"

    Isaiah 46:6
    Some pour out gold from their bags and weigh out silver on the scales; they hire a goldsmith to make it into a god, and they bow down and worship it.

    Micah 5:13
    I will destroy your carved images and your sacred stones from among you; you will no longer bow down to the work of your hands.
  5. 1611AV


    Let me ask you a question. Did Jesus come to save the lost?
  6. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    We still use these words when we refer (in Greek) to praying to the Saints; we ask or entreat those who are with Christ to pray to God for us.
  7. Those who are alive on this earth, yes. There is no scriptural basis for praying to those who are in heaven, other than Jesus Himself being our Mediator between us and God.
  8. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

    Heres a few a couple repeated but you can see Jealousy is connected to idols and down further speaks of the "covering" of idols as well

    Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    In the NT shows bowing the knee to the image of Baal (which is referred to) here

    Romans 11:4... I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

    Isaiah 17:7-8 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel. And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.

    Now here (see below)

    Isaiah 30:22 Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.

    Jerm 8:19 Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the LORD in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to angerwith their graven images, and with strange vanities?

    Duet 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

    Psalm 78:58 For they provoked him to anger with their high places, and moved him to jealousy with their graven images.

    Ezek 8:5 Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.

    Ezek 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.

    Same moved to jealousy (with that which is "not God")

    Duet 32:20 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

    Same context of jealousy in the NT which contains idols here...

    1Cr 10:18-22 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

    Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

    He is Jealous in particulary when it comes to images

    Zach 1:14 So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.

    Both inward are shown. This one speaks to "the covering" which to me implies something inwardly, speaks elsewhere of setting up an idol in "a secret place" (or see what they do in "the dark") type thing

    Isaiah 30:22 Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.

    And it does speak of "renouncing" (((hidden things))) of dishonesty (things covered)

    2Cr 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

    Heres "a cloke" (that which conceals) which uses words for "gain" or a conversation laden with covetousness which is also "idolatry"

    1Thes 2:5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:

    Silver and gold shown as it pertains to vain conversation

    1Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

    Our conversation can be "with covetousness"

    Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have.

    Jerm 6:13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

    Dealing falsely

    2Cr 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

    Feigned words are used in connection to making merchandise of others, insincere words and that which pertains "to gain" gainsaying perhaps, a conversation "with covetousness" as opposed to "without" and yet inclusive of idolatry, given to it even as as it pertains to our conversation

    Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  9. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    Jesus is called the mesistis or covenant maker (and in Galatians, Abraham is the one who receives it, so he agrees to the covenant thus can be called the same, else without two in agreement there is no covenant). The word for covenant maker and intercessor is not the same.

    We believe Christ conquered death, and that the body of Christ is not separated and is bound by the Holy Spirit. Paul asks, can one part of the body say another part of the body is not needful ?
  10. christianmomof3

    christianmomof3 pursuing Christ

    But there are no examples in the Bible of Paul or anyone in the NT praying to saints who had died.
  11. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    The body may go to dust; is the body all there is to the human ? Then we are animals.
  12. That's correct. There are no examples in the Bible of such a thing being done.
  13. The Bible says that Jesus is the One who intercedes for us before God in heaven (Romans 8:34).

    There is no biblical evidence that says there are others in heaven interceding for us before God.
  14. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    In Jeremiah (31:15-17), the deceased Rachel laments for her children, and God answers. The Psalmist attests that
    After the promise of the Resurrection is fulfilled, in Revelation, those with God present the prayers of the saints (5:8).
  15. blessedmomof5

    blessedmomof5 Contributor

    United States
    Has the promise of the Resurrection been fulfilled already?
    I take that as the resurrection has already happened?
    Could be mistaken tho!

    After the promise of the Resurrection is fulfilled, in Revelation, those with God present the prayers of the saints (5:8).[/QUOTE]
  16. christianmomof3

    christianmomof3 pursuing Christ

    Jeremiah 31:15 Thus says Jehovah, A voice is heard in Ramah, A wailing, a very bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; She refuses to be comforted for her children, Because they are no more.

    16 Thus says Jehovah, Hold back your voice from weeping And your eyes from tears; For there is a reward for your work, declares Jehovah; And they will return from the land of the enemy.

    I don't see anyone praying to anyone dead in those verses.

    And in Psalm 139, David states that He will see the Lord after he is dead. But it does not say that anyone alive will pray to anyone dead.

    Rev. 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

    This does not say that anyone alive prayed to anyone dead.

    Prayer to saints is off topic anyway - this thread is about statues.
  17. Thekla

    Thekla Guest


    Christ conquered death through His resurrection; the general resurrection is at the end of time. But if our "heart" continues
    , and those who died in Christ are with Him (Revelation), then we continue with Him though our bodies go to dust.
  18. Well done. I read these scriptures in context and I didn't see any references to praying to anyone who is dead either.
  19. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    She intercedes, though her body is dust.
    The Jews since before the time of Christ asked for her intercession.

    The body of Christ is not divided, and we are united in the Holy Spirit. The physical ears are not needed to hear the Holy Spirit.

    So, how do those in heaven present the prayers of those on earth ?
  20. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    How do those in heaven know what the prayers of the saints are in order to present them ?