Is it logical?

[jayem]

Our municipal newspaper had a brief article on a summer career program for young teens sponsored by a local church. The group would meet with various professionals, tour their workplaces, and learn what working in various careers is like. I think this is great--a worthwhile endeavor. One of the participants was talking about how much she liked the program. She was quoted as saying it was helping her "find God's plan for my life." I've often heard this phrase before. But is it logical? If God has a plan for your life, do you really need help finding it? If it's God's sovereign will, it should be an absolute certainty. You'll find it--or it will find you--at the time, and manner that God has appointed. No assistance necessary.

Not to mention, that God having a plan for your life also negates the idea of free will (at least in an absolute sense.) But that's a different topic.

 

[Sanoy]

Think of that plan like a path. You can choose to walk it, or choose not to.

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

 

[~Anastasia~]

Our municipal newspaper had a brief article on a summer career program for young teens sponsored by a local church. The group would meet with various professionals, tour their workplaces, and learn what working in various careers is like. I think this is great--a worthwhile endeavor. One of the participants was talking about how much she liked the program. She was quoted as saying it was helping her "find God's plan for my life." I've often heard this phrase before. But is it logical? If God has a plan for your life, do you really need help finding it? If it's God's sovereign will, it should be an absolute certainty. You'll find it--or it will find you--at the time, and manner that God has appointed. No assistance necessary.

Not to mention, that God having a plan for your life also negates the idea of free will (at least in an absolute sense.) But that's a different topic.

I think the idea that God has mapped out everyone's steps and wants them to follow instead of choosing for themselves is pushed too far to an extreme. God of course knows what we will do. And there are definite principles (He does not want us to choose to murder or steal).

I think it's more that God gives each of us certain gifts, we develop certain personalities, and if makes sense (IMO) to pray and ask God to put opportunities in our path to put them to good use. Or to help us recognize opportunities.

But I think many times people think far too much of this supposed perfect choice that God wants them to make. It's a bit self-centered really - as if God NEEDS this thing done and only we can do it. There have been a few such certain points in history, but I think it's prideful in a way to assume this is always true of everyone.

I think God does use every action and circumstance - even ones He would rather people don't choose (like murder) in SOME way for some kind of good in the lives of some people through their cooperation with Him. Not that He wanted the bad thing to happen, but if we in our stubbornness do it anyway, He will make the best possible outcome if we accept it.

I think there are general principles of becoming like Christ that are God's will for all people. And those are little choices we make a hundred times every day in thoughts, words, things we do, and things we don't do. But that's part of growth and relationship, not an overwhelming life passage.

And some people who follow closely with God can experience much fruit in whatever they are doing in their lives.

As to your question about logic, I think it's a fair one. I just don't think overall it works that way for most people.

 

[Tree of Life]

Our municipal newspaper had a brief article on a summer career program for young teens sponsored by a local church. The group would meet with various professionals, tour their workplaces, and learn what working in various careers is like. I think this is great--a worthwhile endeavor. One of the participants was talking about how much she liked the program. She was quoted as saying it was helping her "find God's plan for my life." I've often heard this phrase before. But is it logical? If God has a plan for your life, do you really need help finding it? If it's God's sovereign will, it should be an absolute certainty. You'll find it--or it will find you--at the time, and manner that God has appointed. No assistance necessary.

Not to mention, that God having a plan for your life also negates the idea of free will (at least in an absolute sense.) But that's a different topic.

You're picking up on a confusion that lots of Christians have concerning the will and plan of God. God's plan can be understood in two senses.

First, we have God's moral plan for your life. These are the commandments of God and the ways that God calls every person to live. They are not specific (move to Aruba), but general (thou shalt not steal). We do need help discerning God's plan in this sense, but all of it is revealed in Scripture. It's not discerned in some mysterious way, but by studying the Bible and reflecting on how it applies to life.

Second, we have God's sovereign plan for your life. This is God's unchangeable plan concerning who you'll marry, how many kids you'll have, what your career will be, what successes and failures you have in life, and when you die. This plan is unknowable but can be dimly understood in hindsight. It's not our job to know this plan. We know that God has such a plan only to comfort us when life seems out of control. But we cannot look into any crystal ball to know this plan.

I think many young Christians are terribly afraid of making decisions and taking responsibility for them. They want someone else to take responsibility and to tell them what to do. So they look for God's unknowable plan for their life in order to escape the terror of decision making.

 

[Halbhh]

God of course knows what we will do.

Even this is an assumption (that many make), or one way to read certain scriptures, but not seeming to fit other scriptures read another common way.

One thing we perhaps all can agree on is the helpful wording of Isaiah chapter 46. God will declare certain things ahead of time, and then He will accomplish them.

He surely can see where we are heading at the moment, far better than us, and knows where that leads to, if continued in that direction. But, God intervenes, as we see happen in scripture.

He intervenes and alters the outcome.

But He can choose not to intervene. Allow fairness/justice debts to come due. We ask for His mercy. :=)

 

[Halbhh]

Our municipal newspaper had a brief article on a summer career program for young teens sponsored by a local church. The group would meet with various professionals, tour their workplaces, and learn what working in various careers is like. I think this is great--a worthwhile endeavor. One of the participants was talking about how much she liked the program. She was quoted as saying it was helping her "find God's plan for my life." I've often heard this phrase before. But is it logical? If God has a plan for your life, do you really need help finding it? If it's God's sovereign will, it should be an absolute certainty. You'll find it--or it will find you--at the time, and manner that God has appointed. No assistance necessary.

Not to mention, that God having a plan for your life also negates the idea of free will (at least in an absolute sense.) But that's a different topic.

While God would know what is best, that best can evolve in many small detail ways, constantly, as reality evolves.

At best, we are seeking His guidance.

 

[cvanwey]

Our municipal newspaper had a brief article on a summer career program for young teens sponsored by a local church. The group would meet with various professionals, tour their workplaces, and learn what working in various careers is like. I think this is great--a worthwhile endeavor. One of the participants was talking about how much she liked the program. She was quoted as saying it was helping her "find God's plan for my life." I've often heard this phrase before. But is it logical? If God has a plan for your life, do you really need help finding it? If it's God's sovereign will, it should be an absolute certainty. You'll find it--or it will find you--at the time, and manner that God has appointed. No assistance necessary.

Not to mention, that God having a plan for your life also negates the idea of free will (at least in an absolute sense.) But that's a different topic.

As with a lot of these arguments, the premise seems necessary to begin the very same way.... We need to first establish that this asserted force even exists. It would really be no different than me telling you 'my dead sister has a plan for me in this life.' And then you come to find out I never had a sister. It would then prove I was merely asserting something from my imagination alone.

But presuming God does indeed exist, the 'specific Christian flavor' in which the person asserts, let's forge ahead...

What does the asserter mean by the word 'plan'? Does this individual mean God 'hopes' this human will choose a specific path? Or, does this mean God created this human with full intent to enforce this plan, no matter what, and the human is just along for the ride?

I guess we would need to first square this 'fork in the road' away.?.?.?

 

[Lulav]

I've often heard this phrase before. But is it logical? If God has a plan for your life, do you really need help finding it? If it's God's sovereign will, it should be an absolute certainty. You'll find it--or it will find you--at the time, and manner that God has appointed. No assistance necessary.

exactly! as it is written,

1. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born,
and a time to die;
a time to plant,
and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill,
and a time to heal;
a time to break down,
and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep,
and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn,
and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones,
and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace,
and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get,
and a time to lose;
a time to keep,
and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend,
and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence,
and a time to speak;

8 A time to love,
and a time to hate;
a time of war,
and a time of peace.

God works with us on his schedule, he has appointed a time for certain things to happen in our lives and no matter what we or anyone else does that isn't going to speed up or slow down, he always knows the perfect time and timing.

 

[cvanwey]

God works with us on his schedule, he has appointed a time for certain things to happen in our lives and no matter what we or anyone else does that isn't going to speed up or slow down, he always knows the perfect time and timing.

It would then seem to be, that if what you state is true, that humans are nothing more than the product of what God intended for each and every one of us. That each and every human is nothing more than a vessel, along for the ride. That each and every humans 'feels' they have the ability for 'free will'. But in 'reality', all human actions and intentions were already 'designed/directed/predetermined' by our creator/God ahead of time. Hence, as the OPer indicated, it might seem to conclude that any argument for 'free will' would be a non-existent one.?.?

Thus, if the majority of humans end up in hell, as the Bible seems to suggest, was this God's plan all along?

Seems odd really...? Why would God purposefully make the majority of His creation for 'failure'?

 

[Lulav]

Not every being is a creation of God, which is why there was the great flood.

As far as taking away our free will that isn't what I was saying.

Let's use an example. Most young girls dream of being married to a loving man, having babies and can't wait for that to happen of course the percentages have changed over the years but this is still happening today.

Now the young woman prays to God to send her this loving husband, but gets impatient and basically marries the first guy that comes along that will marry her. She ends up in a bad marriage where children are involved and it's bad all around for everyone, her, the husband the children, the parents the in-laws, the trouble emanates out from this one bad choice like circles on a pond where one pebble was dropped.

Now, why you ask, didn't God sent her the 'right' man, was it to take away her free will or perhaps there were a lot of other factors involved. Maybe the time wasn't right for this man, maybe he lived in another country. Maybe he was sick or had other things to overcome. Only God knows when the perfect opportunity would arise (without infringing on anyone's free will) when they would be in perfect harmony to meet and have a resultant relationship that would be loving and good.

 

[devolved]

Our municipal newspaper had a brief article on a summer career program for young teens sponsored by a local church. The group would meet with various professionals, tour their workplaces, and learn what working in various careers is like. I think this is great--a worthwhile endeavor. One of the participants was talking about how much she liked the program. She was quoted as saying it was helping her "find God's plan for my life." I've often heard this phrase before. But is it logical? If God has a plan for your life, do you really need help finding it? If it's God's sovereign will, it should be an absolute certainty. You'll find it--or it will find you--at the time, and manner that God has appointed. No assistance necessary.

I think there should be some Google Translate version that converts Christian Lingo into "everyday secular English". A lot of time there's nothing deep implied, but merely an aphorism used to convey some generic desire to make sure that whatever one does resides within the boundaries of "How God prefers humans to behave".

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Our municipal newspaper had a brief article on a summer career program for young teens sponsored by a local church. The group would meet with various professionals, tour their workplaces, and learn what working in various careers is like. I think this is great--a worthwhile endeavor. One of the participants was talking about how much she liked the program. She was quoted as saying it was helping her "find God's plan for my life." I've often heard this phrase before. But is it logical? If God has a plan for your life, do you really need help finding it? If it's God's sovereign will, it should be an absolute certainty. You'll find it--or it will find you--at the time, and manner that God has appointed. No assistance necessary.

Not to mention, that God having a plan for your life also negates the idea of free will (at least in an absolute sense.) But that's a different topic.

This is a bit of a repetition of something I said on another thread, but it bears repeating.

The most important belief in Christianity is the resurrection, but the most important behavior is love. Christians have put forth a dismal effort on this front. Tasked by their Lord to love those who would kill them, Christians cannot even love atheists who say mean things on the internet. So I find it to be kind of a joke when Christians sincerely think they're doing God's will.

 

[Lulav]

You're right NV, most want to be doing his will but fail miserably. We pray and ask for things, but many forget we were taught by His Son, to pray for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Now I just wanted to point out what the OP was reading was referring to something found in Jeremiah.

Also to answer this:

What does the asserter mean by the word 'plan'? Does this individual mean God 'hopes' this human will choose a specific path? Or, does this mean God created this human with full intent to enforce this plan, no matter what, and the human is just along for the ride?

The passage reads as follows:

This is from a letter sent from the prophet Jeremiah from Jerusalem to the exiles in Babylon were they were captured and taken by Nebuchadnezzar.

4 This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon:

5 “Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. 6 Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease.
7 Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.” 8 Yes, this is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says:

“Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have.
9 They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them,” declares the Lord.

10 This is what the Lord says:

“When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”​

They were banished and allowed to be captured by Nebuchadnezzar because they did not keep the land laws. The amount of time required was in direct response to the amount of years they had not keep the Sabbath of the land.

For 490 years ( 7x70) they had not allowed the land to rest (have it's own sabbath from producing) so this needed to be made up for.

The land was to rest every 7th year. Nothing was to be planted, nor harvested, this was a way for the land to rejuvenate. It is similar to the rules given about gathering manna in the wilderness.

When the rules about this were laid out ( in Leviticus) they were warned what would happen if they did not do this:

"Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the LORD. 3‘Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard and gather in its crop, 4 but during the seventh year the land shall have a sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD; you shall not sow your field nor prune your vineyard…

33‘You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste. 34‘Then the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35‘All the days of its desolation it will observe the rest which it did not observe on your sabbaths, while you were living on it."​

So it should have come as no shock when this happened.

But God kept his word, and his plans and brought them back after the seventy years had expired. This is when the wall and the temple were rebuilt, not as grand as King Solomons Temple but it was what was standing when it was greatly improved upon in Herods day.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

The logic of it depends on definitions, for example is God's grace resistible or irresistible?

The definitions depend on interpretations or "hermeneutics" to give is scholarly name.

The interpretations sometimes depend on the personality and drives or the reader of the Bible, sometimes they are conscious, sometimes not. Like if you were a Millenialist (sp?), you may have interpreted the Book of Bevelaiton according to some basic principles of that creed.

Postmodernists would argue that there is no authoritative interpretation, anything goes if it means something to you.

Irresistible grace - Wikipedia

 

[FireDragon76]

I think many young Christians are terribly afraid of making decisions and taking responsibility for them. They want someone else to take responsibility and to tell them what to do. So they look for God's unknowable plan for their life in order to escape the terror of decision making.

Of course, comfort becomes a crutch. The problem is that people can limit themselves by those sorts of beliefs.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I think "Gods plan" is being used for career development projects, in countries where its esteemed to have a good career. So its likely a mix up of biblical theology, positive lifestyle philosophy, and the threat of being on the streets. Its likely that the authorities implicitly promote it as it boosts productivity and helps raise living standards, happiness and state power.