Islam Is it just me or is there a lot of witchcraft in Islam's holiest place?

[dzheremi]

I don't mean to start an argument or anything that could sound like I'm blaming Islam directly for this, but I can't help but notice a lot of stories like this one, where people are arrested for witchcraft/black magic in Saudi Arabia. The following case, reported last Wednesday, is notable because it actually took place in Mecca proper, apparently when the man was on umrah (pilgrimage) inside of a holy site used for Islamic pilgrimage:

Saudi authorities ambushed a man caught performing witchcraft and black magic right in the middle of Mecca's holy site.

The arrest, which took place on Sunday, saw the site's policemen arrest the man along with his wife and confiscate all the material they had with them.

People at the scene captured the arrest on camera, then uploaded the footage to social media. The video is now making the rounds online, leaving many lost for words.​

According to the source, there were 118 people arrested for black magic in 2009 alone (when the police formed an "anti-witchcraft unit" to deal with the problem).

Seems weird to me...and like one of the featured twitter comments says, if witchcraft can be undone by the Qur'an, then how was this man performing it anyway near the holy site?

Maybe it's good that they won't let non-Muslims into Mecca. I don't want to be around a bunch of people practicing witchcraft. That's just bizarre.

 

[Brightmoon]

Poorly educated people believe in witchcraft .and it doesn’t matter what your religion is .

 

[SusanD.]

Hi.
Well, it's not so surprising. Research has been done into the origins of Islam and I quote this:-

"Worship at the Ka’aba and the kissing of the Black Stone are just the first of many practices adopted from 7th century paganism and repackaged within monotheistic Islam.

Veneration of the Black-stone
The pagan gods of pre-Islamic Arabia were worshiped in the form of rectangular stones or rocks. For example, the pagan deity 'Al-Lat', mentioned in Qur'an 53:19, and believed by pre-Islamic pagans to be one of the daughters of Allah, was once venerated as a cubic rock at Ta'if in Saudi Arabia. An edifice was built over the rock to mark it apart as a house of worship.

Al-lat stood in al-Ta'if, and was more recent than Manah. She was a cubic rock beside which a certain Jew used to prepare his barley porridge (sawiq). Her custody was in the hands of the banu-'Attab ibn-Malik of the Thayif, who had built an edifice over her. [...]She is the idol which God mentioned when He said, "Have you seen Al-lat and al-'Uzza (Surah 53:19)?[2]
Kitab Al-Asnam (The Book of Idols), p 14
"A principal sacred object in Arabian religion was the stone, either a rock outcropping or a large boulder, often a rectangular or irregular black basaltic stone… of numerous baetyls, the best known is the Black-stone of the Ka’aba at Mecca which became the central shrine object in Islam".[3]
Encyclopedia Britannica
There is no denying that the Black Stone was one among many stones and idols venerated at the Ka’aba by the pre-Islamic pagans. The Black Stone was kissed during pre-Islamic pagan worship. Though Muhammad threw out 360 other objects at the Ka’aba, he retained this Black Stone and continued the practice of kissing it. It is this same stone that the pre-Islamic pagans once kissed, that Muslims kiss today when visiting Mecca."
Therefore, a belief system that has borrowed idolatrous practices and repackaged them can therefore produce some questionable practices amongst some of it's followers.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Poorly educated people believe in witchcraft .and it doesn’t matter what your religion is .

Poorly educated people..? That's an odd thing to say... Do you really think that, or are you just deflecting?

EDIT:
Also, would you say there is a specific religion that educated people believe in?

 

[ubicaritas]

Most of the Muslim world is gripped by a premodern mindset that reads its scriptures (if they can read at all) uncritically. More critical modernist scholars look at the Quran and they recognize a discontinuity between the religion presented and what is practiced today by many Sunni muslims. The Hadith or oral traditions account for much of this.

That's one reason I am optismitic there is a "Quran only" movement, even if I do not find the Quran itself persuasive. It is a step in the right direction towards critical scholarship of Islam. Much as the Protestant reformation was 500 years ago for Christianity and lead to a revolution in ideas and religion.

 

[Yi-man]

That's one reason I am optismitic there is a "Quran only" movement, even if I do not find the Quran itself persuasive. It is a step in the right direction towards critical scholarship of Islam. Much as the Protestant reformation was 500 years ago for Christianity and lead to a revolution in ideas and religion.

Qur'an only deviants will never make much headway.

 

[ubicaritas]

Qur'an only deviants will never make much headway.

It presents an alternative to those who demand uncritical acceptance of tradition which is something that is intellectually untenable in the modern world.

 

[dzheremi]

The number of Qur'an-only Muslims is infinitesimally small, and this despite the fact that their position has been around arguably since Ibrahim al-Nazzam (d. 845 AD) and other Mu'tazilites. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be optimistic if you want to, but the analogy between them and the Protestants can only be taken so far, seeing as how Protestantism spread very quickly in Western Europe and had the backing of several kingdoms by some point rather soon after its founding, whereas the Mu'tazilites (most of whom were not Qur'an-only to begin with, as far as I understand it; according to wiki, their philosophical ideas are most readily adopted in the modern day by the Zaidis of Shi'ite Islam, and Zaidis definitely have their own hadith collections, just a different way of approaching the subject in general in comparison to the Twelvers or the Sunnis) have been in decline and essentially irrelevant since the 10th century or so.

 

[ubicaritas]

The number of Qur'an-only Muslims is infinitesimally small, and this despite the fact that their position has been around arguably since Ibrahim al-Nazzam (d. 845 AD) and other Mu'tazilites. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be optimistic if you want to, but the analogy between them and the Protestants can only be taken so far, seeing as how Protestantism spread very quickly in Western Europe and had the backing of several kingdoms by some point rather soon after its founding, whereas the Mu'tazilites (most of whom were not Qur'an-only to begin with, as far as I understand it; according to wiki, their philosophical ideas are most readily adopted in the modern day by the Zaidis of Shi'ite Islam, and Zaidis definitely have their own hadith collections, just a different way of approaching the subject in general in comparison to the Twelvers or the Sunnis) have been in decline and essentially irrelevant since the 10th century or so.

Right now it seems like a pipedream sure but as the world globalizes there's going to be fewer choices between Salafism like ISIS, and more modernizing influences, in the non-Shi'ite world. Naive traditionalism will die as it becomes untenable (fundamentalism and traditionalism should not be confused as they are two separate things). Part of the thing about naive traditionalism is lacking even an awareness of different viewpoints, whereas Fundamentalism presents one with different viewpoints but engages in polemic to suppress them. In that way, fundamentalism is the most inauthentic response of all since it becomes an exercises in believing in bad faith.

So in the end, fundamentalism can only be upheld by power, and it allies naturally with authoritarians. It cannot rely on the force of tradition, because tradition itself has become merely one more viewpoint.

 

[Yi-man]

It presents an alternative to those who demand uncritical acceptance of tradition which is something that is intellectually untenable in the modern world.

On the contrary, the Qur'an time and time again tells people not to follow blindly, but to ponder, to study and verify the truth for themselves. What traditions do you think Muslims follow without critical analysis?

 

[mindlight]

On the contrary, the Qur'an time and time again tells people not to follow blindly, but to ponder, to study and verify the truth for themselves. What traditions do you think Muslims follow without critical analysis?

A lot of those who come to Mecca on Hajj are ignorant uneducated pagans more steeped in the folklore of their own cultures than in the Qur'an. That witches may be present among them is no surprise really.

The Qur'an itself and the Haddith are products of crystallised traditions and there is little if any debate about the veracity of its sources inside the Muslim world. The Christian world has endured such fierce internal criticism for centuries and the bible texts have survived that test of fire.

 

[Yi-man]

Obviously, the Devil will try his best to attack the holiest site on Earth, a site dedicated to the worship of GOD alone. That should surprise no one.

The Christian World has not survived textual criticism, there has been an unprecedented falling away from the Christian faith, most don't even bother referring to the Bible, rather stating, they seek a personal relationship with Jesus pbuh. A good many who have fallen away have turned to witchcraft in the form of spirituality, opening up their chakras and third eye, hoping to communicate with 'Spirit Guides'. There are many channels on YT run by such people, as they seek to draw in more people from the Christian fall out.

 

[Barney2.0]

Obviously, the Devil will try his best to attack the holiest site on Earth, a site dedicated to the worship of GOD alone. That should surprise no one.

The Christian World has not survived textual criticism, there has been an unprecedented falling away from the Christian faith, most don't even bother referring to the Bible, rather stating, they seek a personal relationship with Jesus pbuh. A good many who have fallen away have turned to witchcraft in the form of spirituality, opening up their chakras and third eye, hoping to communicate with 'Spirit Guides'. There are many channels on YT run by such people, as they seek to draw in more people from the Christian fall out.

You mean a former pagan shrine, which housed 360 idols, which people used to run around naked, a place where a friend of mine witnessed someone attempt to run around naked (don’t worry he was apprehended), is the holiest place on Earth you’ve got to be kidding me. Have you seen the Sufis popping up nowadays attempting to lighten up Islam with ridiculous dancing, singing, screaming, and jumping they call Zikr, there are many videos of funny Sufi dancing all over the internet. The falling away from Islam according to statistics is happening more then with any other religion on Earth. In Lebanon Churches are full on Sunday while on Salat Al Jumaa you see only 10 people in their 70s-80s-90s in the Mosque while the Imam is screaming his head off, or if you go to Tripoli you can see Muslims twirling on the streets or dancing while the Imam sings Surah Al Fatiha.

 

[dzheremi]

As much as I love Lebanon and her people, I don't know if it can really be taken to be very representative of the Muslim world more generally. Would that the rest of it would have full churches, too...or, in some places, any...

 

[Barney2.0]

As much as I love Lebanon and her people, I don't know if it can really be taken to be very representative of the Muslim world more generally. Would that the rest of it would have full churches, too...or, in some places, any...

I mean I’m just saying Islam is declining the more educated the society gets, sophisticated societies like that of Lebanon don’t mix well with Islam which is why the religion is in decline there, same as Islam in the UK or America.

 

[Barney2.0]

As for witchcraft, many Islamic or Muslim majority countries like Indonesia mix Islam with native beliefs, so to them they are just practicing what their forefathers practiced, many Muslims also turn to witchcraft or some sort of ridiculous “spiritual” things like zikr in order to lighten up Islam which to me is like an Iconclastic Church filled with nothing inside, but rage and jealousy.

 

[dzheremi]

I mean I’m just saying Islam is declining the more educated the society gets, sophisticated societies like that of Lebanon don’t mix well with Islam which is why the religion is in decline there, same as Islam in the UK or America.

Ah, yes. I see what you mean now. Apologies for misunderstanding your point.

 

[Barney2.0]

Ah, yes. I see what you mean now. Apologies for misunderstanding your point.

No problem.