Is it ever ok to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus?

[Kevin Ambrose]

Your ignorance is an insult to the all the Christians who are suffering under Sharia regimes. What you're advocating for are Apostasy laws which forbid the conversion to Christianity. Sharia turns women into second class citizens. It places crippling financial burdens on anyone who refuses to pay a non-believer tax. It advocates execution and brutal punishments for most crimes. There is nothing peaceful about it that brings peace. With the absence of Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus to persecute the Sunni turn on the Shia. It is a never ending cycle of war.

Islam is a heresy. It's law brings only death.

For those who are curious about the realities of Sharia here is an article I wrote about the persecution that Christians face in Islamic controlled countries.

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

Nation states certainly have the God given right to declare just war. Individuals certainly have the right to use lethal force when it is necessary to defend themselves or their families from significant harm.

How is it a God given right?

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

If you have an enemy bent on killing you I would say it is better to kill them first in the name of surviving. Otherwise people will be invoking Jesus at your funeral and your murderer will likely be free to kill again.

Fight or flight responses are involuntary. It would be a real chore I imagine for someone to stand there while someone else is coming at them with murderous intent.
But I suppose there are people that do that.
When Jesus was the Father incarnate, I look to the old testament that tells me God never let his chosen people suffer the onslaught of murderers without defending themselves in his name.
Why would a Christian do any different?

Thanks for your input. I do find it strange that the New Testament does not really give us this direction. Almost the opposite. But if we hadn't protected ourselves with appropriate force for centuries I'm not sure we would still be around?

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

My brief study suggested that Muslims are not on the same page about sharia law and how it would be implemented on a larger scale. There are, it seams, liberal and conservative Muslims.

But even so, we have examples in scripture of God's people enduring the reign of oppressors and winning them over through their witness. Daniel is one example. He did not fight his captors. He didn't defile himself either. Eventually he earned the trust of the leaders. Jesus' disciples are all reported to have died (except one) under an oppressive regime. If Jesus counseled them to fight, they must have missed it. I'm not seeing an oppressive government as a reason to justify killing others. How can they be saved if you shoot them?

I have heard opinions in the past that Christianity was designed to keep people under oppression and is a religion of slaves. What do you think to this concept?
It does appear sometimes that we are always giving in to more dominant faiths or ideas.

 

[SolomonVII]

As Christians is it ok to kill our enemies ? Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, what if we are called to war or someone is trying to hurt our families?

There is a time and a season for everything, including war, and killing.

since we ought not take an oath in the name of the Lord;

Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear--not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. All you need to say is a simple "Yes" or "No." Otherwise you will be condemned.​

how much more must this be true that we not ought kill in the name of Jesus?
Killing, insofar as it is justified, is performed in the name of self-defense, or in the line of duty to one's country and its citizens. When we enter into war or into agressive defense mode, we are called to enter into such horrible actions in a state of humility, fully acknowledging that we are fallen creatures who, even with the best of intentions, have no way of knowing the full consequences of our actions.
We ought never carry God around in our back pockets or up our sleeve like a trump card to boldly assert the righteousness and infallibility of our own actions. The best that we can hope for is that our intentions are pure, and that our actions are correct in order to lessen the evil in the world. We should however never pretend that we speak for God and that whatever we do is righteous, because God is on our side, no matter what.

​

 

[SkyWriting]

Very clever dodge avoiding the implications of my post. I don't think you are Jesus and I know I am not and I often fall short of His perfection. Once when I was serving in the military in a combat area I met a man from that country who was the same age as I was, 28, he told me he could not remember a time when his country was not at war.
If all of us "enlightened" westerners laid down our weapons and welcomed the rest of the world in peace with open arms I wonder how long it would be before we all spoke Arabic and lived under sharia law?

Rural people don't live by laws.
They create them. It's the story of America.

 

[SpeckOdust]

provide them with food, shelter (but in prisons) and clothing, until they died of old age or natural causes, give them doctors and dentists, maybe provide Christian only television, or media, while there in, j

 

[LiW]

So if Jesus said this, why have so many Christian soldiers and churches killed in the name of Christ ?

Hi, I'm not sure how to respond to that. But anyway, I read your post on 'Farewell' and couldn't respond to that post because I didn't have enough of something (points or something else) to respond. I just want to say 'Take care'. It might be good to send one of the moderators a private message to seek clarifications. Whatever it is, all the best!

 

[Der Alte]

Why is Arabic not ok as a language? Wouldn't it be better to live in peace and speak another language than be at war and speak English?
What is the problem with sharia law? (I honestly don't know. Haven't studied it. I hear it is like OT law.) I would probably be more concerned about that than by the language concern.

Excuse me? Since you are using a computer on the internet evidently you do not live on a remote island with no media. Just a few days ago a relative of mine posted a video on face book. The caption of the video was "Show this video to all your friends who want to accept Islam and Sharia law."
....The video showed a big burly guy dressed in black, with only his eyes showing, holding a big sword. Some other guys dressed the same led out a young man whose hands were tied and he was blindfolded. They made him kneel down. The guy with the sword pushed his head further down, 2-3 times since the victim kept raising his head.
.....I thought the video was going to stop but it didn't. I watched while the big guy chopped off the victim's head. The back up crew drug the body back to a big pile of bodies and started to lead out another victim. All the while the crowd was screaming "Allah hu akhbar" [god is great] and "Inshallah" [the will of god.]

 

[Der Alte]

I mean anytime.
If the goverment of uk call me or my son up would I be willing to kill people who the goverment tell me to?
If a man broke into my house with a knife too, if I kill him have I condemned myself?
Just to be clear I'm very well trained in self defence techniques and have the power to take life very easily.

Just because I have this power doesn't mean I would but where does Jesus say it's ok to defend ourselves?

Where did Jesus condemn the Roman Centurion?

Matthew 8:8
(8) The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Matthew 8:9
(9) For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Matthew 8:10
(10) When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Matthew 8:13
(13) And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
​

 

[Der Alte]

Why is Arabic not ok as a language? Wouldn't it be better to live in peace and speak another language than be at war and speak English?

You're kidding right? There is nothing wrong with Arabic or any other language should one choose to learn it. I speak more than one language. But under Sharia law you will be forced to speak and read Arabic. Do you want armed Jihadists forcing you to learn Arabic?

What is the problem with sharia law? (I honestly don't know. Haven't studied it. I hear it is like OT law.) I would probably be more concerned about that than by the language concern.

It is not either/or, living under Sharia law means being forced to learn Arabic and become a muslim. Here are the first eleven Sharia laws from one list I found.

• Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand.
• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
• Criticizing Muhammad or denying that he is a prophet is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Allah is punishable by death.
• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death .
• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.
• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.
• Girls' [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] should be cut (Muhammad's, Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).
• A woman can have 1 husband, who can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.
• A man can beat his wife for insubordination..​

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yet Exodus 22:18 contradicts that. "Murder" is clearly a different concept than the justifiable taking of a life. Just like it is in our present legal system. Otherwise why is King David held in such high regard after killing hundreds on the battlefield?

Good point. When God led them to the promised land, they had to fight and win back or win the land. Everyone didn't just move out with a month's notice. lol.

That is why Joshua is known as a great warrior and strategist.

 

[Der Alte]

Start

Very clever dodge avoiding the implications of my post. I don't think you are Jesus and I know I am not and I often fall short of His perfection. Once when I was serving in the military in a combat area I met a man from that country who was the same age as I was, 28, he told me he could not remember a time when his country was not at war.
If all of us "enlightened" westerners laid down our weapons and welcomed the rest of the world in peace with open arms I wonder how long it would be before we all spoke Arabic and lived under sharia law?

End.

Rural people don't live by laws.
They create them. It's the story of America.

This post is self-contradictory and does not address my post, quoted above.

 

[brightlights]

How is it a God given right?

God gave it. It's in Scripture.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

My brief study suggested that Muslims are not on the same page about sharia law and how it would be implemented on a larger scale. There are, it seams, liberal and conservative Muslims.

But even so, we have examples in scripture of God's people enduring the reign of oppressors and winning them over through their witness. Daniel is one example. He did not fight his captors. He didn't defile himself either. Eventually he earned the trust of the leaders. Jesus' disciples are all reported to have died (except one) under an oppressive regime. If Jesus counseled them to fight, they must have missed it. I'm not seeing an oppressive government as a reason to justify killing others. How can they be saved if you shoot them?

If you are a true follower of the Koran then all Christians and all other faiths are expendable if they do not convert to Islam. So are you ready to convert? To do so would be to deny Christ.

You said
"I was hoping you would enlighten me since you think it is a bad thing. I wouldn't mind giving up birthday parties for world peace."

Maybe you should think about reconsider you statement based on the bible verses in

1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Thanks for your input. I do find it strange that the New Testament does not really give us this direction. Almost the opposite. But if we hadn't protected ourselves with appropriate force for centuries I'm not sure we would still be around?

I think killing someone would be the last resort. For instance, shooting someone in the leg, groin or arm will not kill them, but may stop them. Also our voices "I have a gun! Stop and do not come closer", so I try to think of it more like what can I do to protect myself and never get into that position. Because once you are in that position I would imagine as another poster said, fight or flight responses and instinct probably take over.

 

[ldibart]

I'm not following your point. How can you say all would have been killed when quite clearly this did not happen? It did not happen because Jesus had a better plan, one that did not rely on swords. And swords have multiple uses at the time of Christ. Defending oneself with a sword does not always require using the sword to attack or kill the other person. Why does self defense require killing? I don't think it does.

hmm ok I must have not been clear I will restate it like this if they took up swords they all would have been killed. Jesus plan was to have a church he would not have one had the proceeded on that path

Yes of course their are multiple uses for a sword ..a deterrent to robbers . I am not sure where you think i said its only for killing however

I did make a point that we CAN defend our loved ones

 

[ldibart]

Your ignorance is an insult to the all the Christians who are suffering under Sharia regimes. What you're advocating for are Apostasy laws which forbid the conversion to Christianity. Sharia turns women into second class citizens. It places crippling financial burdens on anyone who refuses to pay a non-believer tax. It advocates execution and brutal punishments for most crimes. There is nothing peaceful about it that brings peace. With the absence of Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus to persecute the Sunni turn on the Shia. It is a never ending cycle of war.

Islam is a heresy. It's law brings only death.

Exactly and Paster frued is a muslim

My brief study suggested that Muslims are not on the same page about sharia law and how it would be implemented on a larger scale. There are, it seams, liberal and conservative Muslims.

But even so, we have examples in scripture of God's people enduring the reign of oppressors and winning them over through their witness. Daniel is one example. He did not fight his captors. He didn't defile himself either. Eventually he earned the trust of the leaders.

Jesus' disciples are all reported to have died (except one) under an oppressive regime. If Jesus counseled them to fight, they must have missed it. I'm not seeing an oppressive government as a reason to justify killing others. How can they be saved if you shoot them?

It does not take all Muslims to be on board, the ones that ARE on board would be the ones pushing and setting up courts so on to rule the many as seems to be the case which is the usual case..because the majority would be passive instead of bringing to prison BY FORCE those evil men which are killing beating torturing ..

SHARIA LAW is barbaric and evil many believe in sharia law just the small amount that is here already set up a sharia court in Texas and that court had to be removed .

Report: 1,200 women assaulted on New Year's Eve in German cities

the EU is having sexual assaults they had 1200 in one night! and 24 same night full out rapes! there are 900 go zones 750 in france .. news crews attempted to interview the camera man smashed in the face and they crew had to run while they chanted this is our city .
People are not suppose to just let themselves be raped nor beat killed or other.

Clearly the swords are not back scratchers and the apostle new he had the right to defend with it and did not go for a death blow but a warning shot thus the ear cut off . IT was not the right timing because Jesus had larger plans and did not want them to die it was his time to be taken .

Jesus defended his fathers house from robbers he had the right to overturn tables and toss things over and whip at those evil men in his father house and obviously would escalate as needed until the left.

NO we have the RIGHT to defend our homes and our loved ones!

 

[John Hyperspace]

As Christians is it ok to kill our enemies ? Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, what if we are called to war or someone is trying to hurt our families?

I don't believe so; Jesus never did this. Jesus told us to be "harmless as doves"

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

I don't believe so; Jesus never did this. Jesus told us to be "harmless as doves"

Yet I've seen even a dove fight to defend its nest.