Is it ever ok to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus?

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I did not bring up an issue of Paul saying anything different from Jesus. You made that assertion out of nothing apropos to the topic--without providing any substance to your assertion.

You asserted that Paul said it was "okay" to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus (which is the topic), so you defend your own assertion.

Paul clearly states: 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Didn't Jesus teach us forgive us our debts as we forgive those who are indebted to us? Is there a different rule for some men to judge and not for others? Can a man be a minister of God and disobey Jesus: who stated the teachings he is preaching he got from God. Jesus said: unless you forgive everyone their debts yours will not be forgiven; do some have a different rite to kill and execute wrath against Jesus's words? Paul clearly contradicts the King of kings and gives kings a rite to KILL that Jesus spoke against. Or is Jesus not the King/Ruler of kings and are they exempt from God/Jesus's rule?


Matthew18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Is Paul not clearly a heretic and responsible for teaching doctrines that are clearly against the teachings of Jesus? Only if you lose all rational faculties can you not see Paul contradicted Jesus and is anti-Christ.
 
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That depends as to what kind of Christian you are: is Jesus you Lord, or do you follow the bible: which includes Paul? Paul says it is okay, but Jesus absolutely forbids such actions: as he states what measure you mete it will be measured to you... Do you want God's grace mercy compassion and forgiveness? Then you better show it to others. Christ didn't fight those who killed him in self-defence and he is our example... The only way to rid the world of evil is by stopping it within yourself: as that is all you can control. Follow Jesus, read and obey his words and take his advice, not peoples advice from here.

Thank you for this reply.

I see Matthew 7:2 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." and I consider the measure I use of self-defense and defense of others. I contemplate this using a thought exercise. I think of a bunch of mothers in harms way of some men who are doing all kinds of evil. These women are tied up and defenseless. I see also the children of these women next to them. These wicked men do all kinds of things that I won't mention to the women and children. Now I consider myself in a position to stop this. I have the ability to do this and it is almost assured that I will prevent the evil from happening to these people. The catch is that I must kill these men in order to do so. Now I add, if I don't stop it this time, then they will continue to keep doing this sort of evil and others will join them and it will spread around the world many times over. This is quite a challenge to consider.

The things I am contemplating during this thought exercise are :

  • Is my measure of defending others by killing wrong?
  • Matthew 26:52 live by the sword, die by the sword.
  • John 6:63 the flesh profits nothing.
  • Luke 9:23 pick up your cross and follow me.
There is a lot to consider here. I'll begin with John 6:63. If the flesh profits nothing, then what does that entail? I can imagine that exercising the body to become stronger and faster doesn't profit anything. Success at a job or career to feed yourself and your family doesn't profit anything. We experience the whole world and entire cosmos through the flesh and not any desires, aspirations, or ambitions profit anything because they are of the flesh. The design of the flesh encompasses all this including our own family, Luke 9:60 let the dead bury the dead. This being so, for Jesus focuses on the spirit and what feeds it and helps it to grow. The things of the flesh are of human thought, which Jesus distinguishes from the thought of the spirit. It is implied that we are in sin with the human thoughts and concerns and this passage from John illustrates that. Therefore, we see two paths for us to follow here, one following the spirit that Jesus has given us or one that follows the flesh which humanity has known throughout the ages and is considered missing the mark by our Savior.

Let us consider Matthew 26:52 live by the sword, die by the sword. Living by the sword is living by the flesh. It is following the concerns of humans and of the flesh, protecting and defending the things of the flesh which all perish, die, and can be destroyed or stolen by invaders and thieves. It is not living by Jesus for fear of death, which is his path in this world. It is a fleeing from our trust in Jesus and taking matters in our own hands and a sign of not believing in his promise.

Now for Luke 9:23 pick up your cross and follow me. This world is of no profit to us. It is through our sharing in the suffering of this world that we shall be rewarded in Jesus' name. What we are called upon to do is not natural for this world. Our thoughts continue to stray from his call and slip into things of the flesh because the flesh is natural. The path of Jesus is meant for us to transcend this world in him. That is why it is such a challenge because the nature of this world continually misdirects us from that path.

So, is my measure of defense on the path that Jesus has provided for us? I conclude that it is not so. Even in the case of the woman Asia Bibi a Pakistani Christian and what she is going through. I say to myself often that one speck of dust in heaven is worth more than all the treasure of this world. Therefore trusting in Jesus and his path no matter how difficult in this life is more profit than we can even imagine. It can be hard to accept the path of Jesus in the face of suffering and its cause, that being evil, because it isn't natural and goes against instinct.
 
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RDKirk

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Paul clearly states: 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

<snip>
Is Paul not clearly a heretic and responsible for teaching doctrines that are clearly against the teachings of Jesus? Only if you lose all rational faculties can you not see Paul contradicted Jesus and is anti-Christ.

Your accusation is "Paul said it's okay" to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus.

Paul pointed out that God has given earthly rulers the authority to use the sword to maintain their laws, and that Christians should obey those laws with specific regard to paying taxes, showing honor to officials.

You have not at all shown Paul saying "it's okay" for Christians to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus.

You seem to be failing to make a distinction between the government of Jesus and the governments of man.

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now, My kingdom is not of this realm."
 
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Your accusation is "Paul said it's okay" to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus.

Paul pointed out that God has given earthly rulers the authority to use the sword to maintain their laws, and that Christians should obey those laws with specific regard to paying taxes, showing honor to officials.

You have not at all shown Paul saying "it's okay" for Christians to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus.

You seem to be failing to make a distinction between the government of Jesus and the governments of man.

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now, My kingdom is not of this realm."

Your government forces you to go to war and kill others whom they claim are their enemies: do you do it? Paul says you will be a minister of God and Jesus says you will face God's wrath: do you still fail to see the contradiction?
 
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RDKirk

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Your government forces you to go to war and kill others whom they claim are their enemies: do you do it? Paul says you will be a minister of God and Jesus says you will face God's wrath: do you still fail to see the contradiction?

And that is why early Christians did not enter the military, nor does Paul say they must.
 
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he-man

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If you want to destroy ISIS people are going to die. Otherwise leave them alone, and lock our gates to keep that disease from spreading. There must be fifty ways to kill your enemy, and none of them are without blood, guts and gore.
the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked and that is why we leave it up to God to decide who is the enemy!
Act_5:29  Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Matthew 13:3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: "Behold, a sower went out to sow. (4) And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them.
The Parable of the Net
Mat 13:47  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:48  Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49  So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50  And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 
 
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