Is it ever ok to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus?

[SteveIndy]

Have you ever actually read a New Testament, or is your capacity to talk about spiritual thing limited to bumper sticker type Jesus Quotes?

The Apostle Paul?
If you study him and his doctrine, you have found what God wants you to know regarding a lot of things you are not familiar with.
For example, Paul says to live peaceably with all men (people) >as much as you can<.
Your NT tells us that we are no better infidels (unbelievers) if we dont "provide for our family".
Provide = protect, as well as feed.

Do you respond to every question by assulting and insulting the questioner? Doing this is neither Christian nor is it smart. I was under the impression that a Christian forum was for the purpose of expanding our knowledge of the truth, or is this place just a game of king of the hill where a person cannot allow him or herself to be corrected or instructed. I have found that the response you offered is very much the general response in all of the forums. If we close off our hearts we are really no better off than those who are caught in the world who refuse to listen to reason and go on the attack. We need not be threatened by questions if we indeed have a good answer. But, if we have no answer then the method is usually to attack; that is the way of the flesh and the world, but we are supposed to be of better stuff.

 

[GodB4S]

And I am saying that you are willfully avoiding the entire point all along trying to bubble up on a few scriptures and stating the ridiculous notion that I am saying those scriptures mean you can kill .. I am saying those scriptures intention was not to mean you cannot defend yourself

I PROVE that point with other scriptures and defensive actions by CHRIST ..

CHRIST himself went against the way you use those scriptures he did resist evil men ..

he did he did defend from those robbers, protecting those forced into buying

He did use the amount of force and violence necessary to remove them
Ananias and his wife were put to death by the Lord for lying holding back part of the money

so if you are correct then explain Jesus himself going against them? see it is not ME saying it it is Christ actions TELLING IT ..

explain why if you have those scriptures correct and if that dove statement was suppose be total passivity allow evil people to just pound on you as they wish ..

these other scriptures are just as scriptural as yours ..you do understand we need to use the whole bible in context ..

See i can argue the way you do (HERE COMES THE JOKE PART ).. the bible says that if I believe in Jesus I am saved ..and many more scriptures says if I have faith i am saved because faith comes from God as a gift so I believe because of that faith .. so now i can do anything i want to ..i can even beat up and persecute Christians because i have a few scriptures that says I am saved..

and John no matter WHAT counter scriptures you give me I will just keep saying to you ..how does what you say, stop the scripture if I believe i am saved? .. and that's all i will say the whole time ..I will bubble up and pretend its dialect ..and whats more as I persecuit christians I will tell them they cannot fight back because of your scriptures says so .. (JOKE ENDS)

Not sure why you bother replying if your mind is closed off .. so please dont unless you actually want to take the entire bible serious.

To be "christian" is to be Christ Like...and Jesus is coming back but not as a child but the King of kings and Lord of lords...we are to reign with him and be like him...God does not change and the bible from the beginning tells us the LORD is a man of war...he is holy and righteous and hates a few things yah, seven things for sure...he destroyed the world during Noah's time and Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed during Lot's time and Pharaoh and his army during Moses' time...a man of war indeed!

 

[GodB4S]

What a frightening misinterpretation of Revelation.

So you say....but I think you misinterpreted Jesus...
To be "christian" is to be Christ Like...and Jesus is coming back but not as a child but the King of kings and Lord of lords...we are to reign with him and be like him...God does not change and the bible from the beginning tells us the LORD is a man of war...he is holy and righteous and hates a few things yah, seven things for sure...he destroyed the world during Noah's time and Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed during Lot's time and Pharaoh and his army during Moses' time...a man of war indeed!

 

[NeedyFollower]

So you say....but I think you misinterpreted Jesus...
To be "christian" is to be Christ Like...and Jesus is coming back but not as a child but the King of kings and Lord of lords...we are to reign with him and be like him...God does not change and the bible from the beginning tells us the LORD is a man of war...he is holy and righteous and hates a few things yah, seven things for sure...he destroyed the world during Noah's time and Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed during Lot's time and Pharaoh and his army during Moses' time...a man of war indeed!

But does not God also say " Vengeance is mine, I will repay ? " Having been an enemy of God but for His unmerited mercy and grace, do I now go and demonstrate His mercy towards me but destroying others who have not known His mercy? Is that how I would want to be treated ? Is that how God treated me ? I think we have poured new wine into old wineskins when we mix the old covenant with the new. I think anyone has the right to exact justice who has their own rightousness and is perfect and always has been before God ...I am just not one of them . If you are , praise God.

 

[geiroffenberg]

As Christians is it ok to kill our enemies ? Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, what if we are called to war or someone is trying to hurt our families?

if you dont protect your family, doesnt mean you kill "your enemies", because if you have enemies or not is all about your inner attitude towards the world and the people in it. But still, if someone is trying to kill your children even if you love all people .... and you LET IT HAPPEN? How can you even begin to call yourself a child of God, who is the protector of all innocent? Pls understand that if you have to chose who will live between a murderous child rapist and your own kids - YOU CHOOSE YOUR KIDS, ok? If not, dont ever have kids.

If you dont think God protects his kids, pls read some in the bible where he protects israel, or even where he protects the new church against extorters like annias and sapphira. This really annoys me that people would question this. I dont blame the questioners, but whatever teaching that would allow ppl to be confused about this.

 

[rrguy]

It is important to understand the difference between Murder & kill.

like pointed out all that's required for evil to succeed is for Good men to do nothing.
So however you can help prevent evil wither its praying, teaching, learning, physical force etc... May God be with you.

In the event where People do die I can only pray they end up in heaven. Mercy, That's one example of God helps those who cannot help themselves.

 

[Der Alte]

It would appear you are not actually reading the posts but just responding to key words. You were the one making a proposition that Muslims are bent on destroying us based on your list from the Quran. I was showing how our OT bible and even the NT text can also be interpreted as violent. In fact,
Text Analysis of Bible VS Quran
this article reports a textual analysis and shows that both the NT and the OT are more violent, word wise, that the Quran.

It would appear that you cannot comprehend that what the Jews might have done during Biblical times and what Christians might have done during the middle ages is irrelevant to this discussion.

Again, not defending Muslims, but countering your point that a list from a biased website is adequate evidence for your point.

Speaking of biased websites.

"Raymond Ibrahim, an American born expert on the Middle East and Islamic affairs claims to have debunked the idea that the Bible is more violent than the Quran, remarking that the Bible describes historical events, whereas the Islamic text is doctrinal, and has “open ended” clauses calling followers to action. ...
Similarly, research surfaced in February by software engineer Tom Anderson who ran the texts of the Quran and The Bible through text analytics software to find out which was the most violent....
He [Anderson] did concede that the results have no bearing on proving whether Islam “is more violent than other religions”, and that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all have further texts which contribute to religious doctrine, but that didn’t stop The Independent and other left wing media outlets such as the Huffington post eagerly reporting on his findings....
“This is to say nothing of the fact that Islamic teaching is hardly limited to the Quran. Volumes of canonical (sahih) Hadith (words and deeds of Muhammad) equally inform Muslim actions. [[…]] As it happens, calls to anti-infidel violence in the Hadith outnumber the Quran’s.”
Mr Anderson [your source] lamely concluded: “I must also reemphasize that this analysis is superficial and the findings are by no means intended to be conclusive."
Link: Popular Left Wing Theory That Bible Is More Violent Than Quran Debunked: 'Context is Everything'/​

In the article you linked to (maybe you didn't read it?) Saba Ahmed is the person who is credited with the numbers that you cited about how many violent Muslims there are. And the number of Muslims seeking reform continue to grow. Maybe I missed Brigitte Gabriel in the link. I'll look at it again.

Wrong again. Saba said 1.8 billion total Muslims worldwide. She said nothing about number of violent Muslims. I read a study that said radical Islam is increasing. Perhaps you should refrain from making accusations re: my comprehension of sources I refer to.

Jonathan understood my question. Where is the line where killing someone else is not acceptable, and then crossing that line it is acceptable? Jonathan said imminent murder in progress. What say you?

Contrary to your accusation it is not simply their professed faith. I encountered a Muslim couple in a department store a few day ago. She was covered from head to foot in black. Black material which I could not even see through covered her eyes. I had no feelings one way or the other about him.
.....If I perceived that myself, my family or any helpless person was threatened with imminent violence in my presence I would respond with equal or superior force, irrespective of race, gender, nationality, etc. etc. etc.. And I would do so without any qualms whatsoever. Is that good enough for you?

 

[Der Alte]

I think this conversation is taking off in many directions which is confusing the original question.
The original question was, is it ever ok to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus?
In other words, like ISIS, do we run screaming at our enemies that we are killing them in the name of Jesus? The answer to that would be a resounding NO! By the nature of Jesus and God, this is not what They would have us to do.
Other misconceptions:
The Thou shall not kill in the Ten Commandments, translated from the original text means to "Murder". There is a huge difference.
Secondly someone mentioned something about us Hating to a degree that we are willing to violate one of the Ten Commandments.
First of all....one does not have to engage in the act of hate to kill an enemy of the state, or kill someone who is threatening the safety of a child or family members from a would be killer.
I believe that God has placed within men and women a natural quality and defense mechanism to protect his family. Somewhere in Scripture it says we are to protect the innocent.
As a Christian man I can love mankind like Jesus does and still be absolutely devastated that it was necessary for me to take another life while protecting my wife or children, or country. It is an awful thing to have to do and nobody said we had to enjoy it.
However, I defy these fuzzy wuzzy legalistic theologians to convince me that if all of the sudden Freddie Kruger showed up on your front door step announcing that he was going to rape and butcher your wife and daughters before your very eyes that you would gladly invite him in for a cup of warm cocoa and a few verses of Kum-By-Ahh and share a few Bible verses.
The very fact that he was on your doorstep and announcing his intent is an indicator that he has chosen his fate and

I can almost guarantee that any Bible believing mother or father would be frantically going for their 357 Magnum rather than their Bible.

And none of these folks would be less of a Christian for doing so.
Look into the eyes of your three year old child and You tell me you are just going to hand your baby to Freddie on a platter in the name of Jesus.

I disagree with something you said here. 6 cyclinder capacity vs. 10 magazine capacity. I lean toward 9mm.

 

[D2wing]

Wild difference between thou shalt not commit murder and to kill someone.

To defend your family is justified. If you are drafted in the military and you fail to follow an order during time of war will and SHOULD be court marshaled. If found guilty (at least in the US) the penalty is death.

I find it ironic that people who have NEVER served know what they will do.... So let me get this straight, if you are drafted and you end up on the ground with other soldiers you are going to carelessly and calously put them in extreme danger by your failure to protect?

If you want to talk about laying down your life, then you do your all to ensure that you have your fellow soldiers 6.

The commandment is concerning murder. Killing in war is not what scripture is speaking of.... or do you actually write off the commands of the Father to Israel to take by war the land??

I pretty much agree with this. I was drafted and put in combat and had to answer this question. I decided that I would do my duty to the best of my ability. You can get an exemption as a conscientious objector so that is not a valid argument. Some have been in the military as non combatants such as medics, chaplins etc. As I said, either is valid. The military and police need Christians too.

 

[BukiRob]

I pretty much agree with this. I was drafted and put in combat and had to answer this question. I decided that I would do my duty to the best of my ability. You can get an exemption as a conscientious objector so that is not a valid argument. Some have been in the military as non combatants such as medics, chaplins etc. As I said, either is valid. The military and police need Christians too.

I served as well though not in combat. I just don't see any validity in proclaiming scripture exempts a believer from serving in a combat role... quite the opposite actually

I understand that one can obtain exemptions or serve in other area's but I just dont see much solid ground scripturally for declaring such a position

 

[BukiRob]

God establishes Governments WE THE PEOPLE are that Government that God has established we take down presidents and put them up . If God does indeed establish Governments then he established us to be this government . IF the ones that represent our government become corrupted those that represent our government is not obeying that government and THEY are held accountable to US and we remove them.

Nope. Scripture is very, very clear on this. Kings (EI Presidents) are there because G-d puts them there.

 

[Philip_B]

The doctrine of the divine right of presidents may need some examination

 

[BukiRob]

The doctrine of the divine right of presidents may need some examination

No divine rights.... Divinely raised and removed by G-d.... G-d is in control NOT MAN

 

[ldibart]

Nope. Scripture is very, very clear on this. Kings (EI Presidents) are there because G-d puts them there.

NO i am absolutely correct. This government is US . the ones that are to subject themselves are the ones WE put there in power we have the power this is how this country was made ..and if god put US in power then this is they way God made this Government

You do get that we the people are the government right? we are the presidents we are the senators .. they are our mouth pieces. God put US in charge

 

[BukiRob]

NO i am absolutely correct. This government is US .

Daniel 2:21 "It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding.

Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves."

John 19:10 "Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” 11 Jesus answered,“You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above...""

As I said. It is G-d who raises up and gives authority. You can pretend all you want that you are in control but G-d says otherwise.... I think I will side with what he has to say on the matter.

 

[ldibart]

Daniel 2:21 "It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding.

Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves."

John 19:10 "Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” 11 Jesus answered,“You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above...""

As I said. It is G-d who raises up and gives authority. You can pretend all you want that you are in control but G-d says otherwise.... I think I will side with what he has to say on the matter.

Yes I know all of those scriptures dude .. We the people are the rulers of this kingdom ..period there really is no debate .and if all people thought of our government as ruling US we would lose our power and this country because you use those scriptures out of context with the way the CHRISTIAN founding fathers set the Country up.

So you suggest the GOD could not have made US be the rulers of our country ..so you say our founding fathers did not have permission to have the people GOVERN right? Sorry those scriptures 100% do not apply against we the people..

they would apply to the ones that we allow to speak for us ..if they over step what our founding fathers put in place now those scriptures are used against THEM they are to subject themselves to WE THE PEOPLE to the Constitution! that's the way it was set up by GOD because he made this Government that way.

 

[BukiRob]

Yes I know all of those scriptures dude .. We the people are the rulers of this kingdom ..period there really is no debate .and if all people thought of our government as ruling US we would lose our power and this country because you use those scriptures out of context with the way the CHRISTIAN founding fathers set the Country up

It doesnt matter. G-d is STILL the one who raises up and removes The fact that you participate by voting does not in any way change the truth of scripture P E R I O D

 

[ldibart]

It doesnt matter. G-d is STILL the one who raises up and removes The fact that you participate by voting does not in any way change the truth of scripture P E R I O D

The truth is in the constitution it was laid out perfectly that the people govern like it or not .. now if you want to say GOD gave WE THE PEOPLE the power to be our government then we are on the same page .BUT if you think for one second you think that If this present day gov did something against US that is against our law yet not sin that we need to listen and subject ..NO you are wrong this is where we remove those responsible if it stops free speech for instance ..we do not need to subject to them they need to subject to US

 

[BukiRob]

The truth is in the constitution it was laid out perfectly that the people govern like it or not .. now if you want to say GOD gave WE THE PEOPLE the power to be our government then we are on the same page .BUT if you think for one second you think that If this present day gov did something against US that is against our law yet not sin that we need to listen and subject ..NO you are wrong this is where we remove those responsible if it stops free speech for instance ..we do not need to subject to them they need to subject to US

Well, brother, with all due respect I suggest you tell G-d he is wrong then

Me I will side with what his word has to say on the matter.

 

[ldibart]

Well, brother, with all due respect I suggest you tell G-d he is wrong then

Me I will side with what his word has to say on the matter.

Ive spoken to MANY ministers protestant that in 100% agreement .. this country was set up for US to run it . why is it so hard for you to see that we are the government that God set up?? how is that going against scripture .

I think its simply you flipped the roles of who the government is and who the people are that are suppose to be subjected to it. We elect those that are now the people who now are subjected to US the government to work for us lol..idk Im done too hahaha ..