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Featured Is it ever ok to kill our enemies in the name of Jesus?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Andrewofthetribe, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    As Christians is it ok to kill our enemies ? Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, what if we are called to war or someone is trying to hurt our families?
     
  2. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    You mean in self-defense and/or if you are the designated protector of your family and you don't protect them?

    What that brings to mind is a Shepherd, like Jesus, for instance, Who has a rod and a staff. What is a rod and a staff for?

    Going a little further, is it a sin to protect one's family for instance, and in the course of protecting one;'s family, the one bound and determined to do them harm gets killed, are you asking if it is a sin to kill said perpetrator if one is compelled to?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  3. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows Nothing

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    Or just for fun?
     
  4. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    I mean anytime.
    If the goverment of uk call me or my son up would I be willing to kill people who the goverment tell me to?
    If a man broke into my house with a knife too, if I kill him have I condemned myself?
    Just to be clear I'm very well trained in self defence techniques and have the power to take life very easily.
    Just because I have this power doesn't mean I would but where does Jesus say it's ok to defend ourselves?
     
  5. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    lol "Man cannot live on bread alone" :liturgy:
     
  6. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    I edited my post and went into more detail.
     
  7. Philip_B

    Philip_B Christ is Risen! He is Risen Indeed! Supporter

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    XXXVII. Of the Power of the Civil Magistrates.
    The Power of the Civil Magistrate extendeth to all men, as well Clergy as Laity, in all things temporal; but hath no authority in things purely spiritual. And we hold it to be the duty of all men who are professors of the Gospel, to pay respectful obedience to the Civil Authority, regularly and legitimately constituted.

    The original 1571, 1662 text of this Article reads as follows: “The King’s Majesty hath the chief power in this Realm of England, and other his Dominions, unto whom the chief Government of all Estates of this Realm, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Civil, in all causes doth appertain, and is not, nor ought to be, subject to any foreign Jurisdiction. Where we attribute to the King’s Majesty the chief government, by which Titles we understand the minds of some slanderous folks to be offended; we give not our Princes the ministering either of God’s Word, or of the Sacraments, the which thing the Injunctions also lately set forth by Elizabeth our Queen do most plainly testify; but that only prerogative, which we see to have been given always to all godly Princes in holy Scriptures by God himself; that is, that they should rule all estates and degrees committed to their charge by God, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Temporal, and restrain with the civil sword the stubborn and evil-doers.

    The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of England.

    The Laws of the Realm may punish Christian men with death, for heinous and grievous offences.

    It is lawful for Christian men, at the commandment of the Magistrate, to wear weapons, and serve in the wars.”​

    The natural inclination is the answer the question with a no. I think that is the default position for us a Christians. There are things which break in the face of that, and certainly the use of reasonable force to protect self and family may result in the death of an enemy. In that setting, depending on the circumstances we may deem that reasonable. Christians serving with law enforcement agencies may find themselves in situations where in order to protect the public they are required to shoot and possibly kill someone. In matters of national interest where we are called to engage in warfare, it may prove necessary to shoot and kill our enemies. There are a whole range of guidelines to do with the rules of engagement, where it would indeed be unacceptable.

    As I said I think the default position for Christians is no.
     
  8. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    Yes I think that sums some of it up brinny :hug:
     
  9. LilShepherdBoy

    LilShepherdBoy Seek First the Kingdom of God & His Righteousness

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    In the Garden of Gethsemane. Judas brought a group of centurions to arrest Jesus. When they laid hands on Jesus, one of His disciple reacted in self defense. Jesus went on to say this.

    Matthew 26:50-52 New King James Version (NKJV)
    50 But Jesus said to him, “Friend, why have you come?” Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and took Him. 51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. 52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
     
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  10. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your great answer Philip, very very interesting viewpoint.
    It reminds me of the book of martyrs preached in Church of England churches that tricked Christians into dying for Jesus when actually thy were dying for king Henry and his fruits.
    I won't talk to much about that as you know it's a very challenging viewpoint I have with regards to the book of martyrs.
    As for the power of the magistrates it's funny it runs alongside the same timescales as book of martyrs. Another threat of punishment if Christians won't die for kings and so called men of God.
    Btw I love my Avatar and wear it with pride. Thankyou for the lovely gift.
     
  11. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    So if Jesus said this, why have so many Christian soldiers and churches killed in the name of Christ ?
     
  12. LilShepherdBoy

    LilShepherdBoy Seek First the Kingdom of God & His Righteousness

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    If you're asking me if it's ok to break one of God's law because you see other people do it, here's my answer.

    Exodus 20:1-17 New King James Version (NKJV)
    1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
    2 “I
    am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
    4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
    7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold
    him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
    8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
    12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
    13 “You shall not murder.
    14 “You shall not commit adultery.
    15 “You shall not steal.
    16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that
    is your neighbor’s.”
     
  13. Kevin Ambrose

    Kevin Ambrose Christian Nationalist

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    As men God has put us at the head of our households to protect our families and our faith. I don't see any action in defense of either to be a sin.

    While it's true that Christ warned about living and dying by the sword He did not say to abandon the sword. To the contrary he commanded one to be armed (Luke 22:36). With that in mind I view "living by the sword" to mean a violence first mentality.

    As far as turning the other cheek that is a deeply personal mandate. It doesn't tell me to turn an innocent child's cheek to be struck also. As Christians we have a mandate to protect those people as well. Keep in mind the Bible and the history of Christendom is full of warriors who did their duty on behalf of the faithful. From the feats of King David to the vision of Constantine through the sacrifices of Joan of Arc our tradition is not one without bloodshed.

    It is our duty to ensure that when that bloodshed happens that it is an absolute necessity.
     
  14. Kevin Ambrose

    Kevin Ambrose Christian Nationalist

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    Yet Exodus 22:18 contradicts that. "Murder" is clearly a different concept than the justifiable taking of a life. Just like it is in our present legal system. Otherwise why is King David held in such high regard after killing hundreds on the battlefield?
     
  15. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou your answer is loud and clear.
    I find it astounding that Christians around the world know we should not kill, yet the Catholic Church and the Church of England have murdered thousands of people in the name of Christ and yet we still follow them and give them authority over our lives.
    There has has been nothing but death and destruction at their doors since their inception and people still believe they have anything to do with Christ.
     
  16. lastofall

    lastofall Member

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    Either He is the Lord or not: if He our Lord, then we do the things which He says; if not, then we will not do the things which He says, and there is no modification. And when we go about looking for a way out of what He tells us, then we are only superficial in actually believing in Him, and not true to Him.
     
  17. Kevin Ambrose

    Kevin Ambrose Christian Nationalist

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    While I don't disagree with you in theory the practice of what you're saying is a bit hypocritical. If you want to take the hardline on pacifism based on the teachings of the Lord then why do you own a computer? Shouldn't you sell it along with the rest of your belongings to wander the Earth spreading the Word? Matthew 19:21
     
  18. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying yes or no?
     
  19. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

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    What if you are drafted into an army. Do you kill an enemy?

    Me personally, I don't want to kill unless I have no choice. If my there were armed men in my house who wanted to rape/kill us... I'd kill them if I could. As the bible says about laying down your life for your brother. Now... if I were drafted into the army... I would refuse to kill since I did not volunteer. I may be court marshelled but I'm ok with that.
     
  20. Andrewofthetribe

    Andrewofthetribe Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean it's a personal choice ? I have to be honest and say I keep a machete above my bed in case any vermin come into my caravan. I wouldn't stop chopping until they stop breathing.
    But that said would I fight Isis in the name of my country?
    If Christ himself asked me then yes I'm all in.
    My great grandfather died in the trenches of ww1 to protect me, am I to think he is going to hell?
    This would disturb me incredibly.
    In fact I would renounce Christianity at once if I thought any of my family were not invited to heaven to be alongside me.
     
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