Is it Ethical to be fired for stating Christian beliefs

[keith99]

Yeah they were right to fire him. I am not very politically correct but telling the world I am Christian is one thing. Voicing to the world that anyone who does not worship like me is going to hell is another. We are all allowed are own your opinions...but telling a gay person they are going to hell. That is morally wrong. One being gay is not a sin you can not help who you are attracted to. Acting on those desire would be the sin. And know one can declare if someone is going to hell or not, you know what I get the distinct felling that if alot of Christians today were living a few hundred years ago they would be apart of the mobs that burned people at the stake.

And likely other Christians who viewed Scripture just slightly differently and of course Jews.

 

[rjs330]

See that makes me feel sick that Christians would tell one of my lovely friends they are so terrible that that their soul will burn for eternity, simply because they had sex - and told that they are promiscuous at that. The whole notion that Christians spurn in such a way is one of the factors that forced me to change my status away from Christian.

That's the problem with focusing on a particular sin. The scripture says that ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT. The Bible does give examples of sin such as sexual sin, lying, drunkenness etc. But it is clear that everyone is a sinner and bound for hell. Jesus is the answer. It is faith and belief in him that saves.

Your friends are not condemned simply because of sexual sin. They are condemned because they are sinners regardless of whether they committed sexual sin or not. Jesus said

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son, so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life, instead of being utterly destroyed.For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but rather so that through him, the world might be saved.Those who trust in him are not judged; those who do not trust have been judged already, in that they have not trusted in the one who is God’s only and unique Son.“Now this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, but people loved the darkness rather than the light. Why? Because their actions were wicked.For everyone who does evil things hates the light and avoids it, so that his actions won’t be exposed.But everyone who does what is true comes to the light, so that all may see that his actions are accomplished through God.” - John 3:16-21 Bible Gateway passage: John 3:16-21 - Complete Jewish Bible

You see people are condemned or judged already. It's really not about a certain type of sin. Jesus says we must believe in him and be born again. That's really the message. Regardless of what type of sin one is committing.

 

[RDKirk]

That's the problem with focusing on a particular sin. The scripture says that ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT. The Bible does give examples of sin such as sexual sin, lying, drunkenness etc. But it is clear that everyone is a sinner and bound for hell. Jesus is the answer. It is faith and belief in him that saves.

Your friends are not condemned simply because of sexual sin. They are condemned because they are sinners regardless of whether they committed sexual sin or not. Jesus said

Yes. No unbeliever is going to hell because he murdered or stole or lied or any other action.

Unbelievers are without salvation because of their unbelief. It doesn't matter what acts they are committing. They could, ostensibly, be "good people" doing all the things Christians do, yet they lack salvation because of unbelief. Their actions neither condemn nor save them--they have no faith and belief to save them.

There are unmarried people in my congregation who I know are having sex--heterosexually--with whomever they can get into bed with. And they have no intention in changing that lifestyle. Yet, they sit in the pews and sing praises to Jesus as loudly as anyone, even though refusing to let Jesus be Lord in that area.

I know people sitting in the pews with unforgiveness in their hearts. With hatred for Christians of other races in their hearts. And they all sing just as loudly on Sunday morning, even though they refuse to let Jesus be Lord in those areas.

I don't know what Jesus is ultimately going to do about those individuals. What I mean by "I don't know" is literally, "I don't know." I don't know how that particular person is going to end up in eternity.

I know I have adultery in my heart. Even if, at this stage in my life, my adultery is a matter of wishing my wife was, in certain ways, a different kind of woman--I've grown sophisticated enough in my understanding of sin to realize even that is adultery. I have so far refused to let Jesus be Lord in that area.

I have an aunt who has said some cruel and untrue things about my wife and my daughter that changed my relationship with her. I haven't applied Matthew 18 to that, and I know I should. I have refused to let Jesus be Lord in that area.

What is Jesus ultimately going to do about me?

I don't know. I do know that walking away from Christ is not the direction to the right answer. I know for all those other people that keeping them from Christ is not the direction to the right answer.

I know that when someone says, "Jesus is Lord," it does not mean that he has yet let Jesus be Lord in all areas of his life. That might not happen for a long, long time.

I have to let Jesus work that out in each person.

 

[rjs330]

Looking further into the article, it seems he made a comment on twitter because he wanted to put his thoughts out there on a news article he was sharing, which is common practice amongst celebrities and the rest of us. It wasn't that he was just making random tweets obsessing about this issue.

"Israel has failed to understand that the expectation of him as a Rugby Australia and NSW Waratahs employee is that he cannot share material on social media that condemns, vilifies or discriminates against people on the basis of their sexuality. - I can understand this mindset for its celebrity employees, but there is still a double standard. Basically it's stating if you fully accept promotion of this lifestyle, it's fine to say in private and public. If you don't, it's fine to feel it privately but if you say it publically, you're going to be considered "wrong". In that way these companies ARE taking one side of the argument at heart on what they agree with.

I haven't read this whole thread so please excuse me if this has been answered already. Is there a written policy that the player read and acknowledged that prohibited him from speaking out like that?

 

[rjs330]

And they're welcome to hire this guy as their spokesman. But the fact they exist doesn't really make a difference in this situation.



Except for publicly stating they deserve to be judged and tortured by someone more powerful than them.

Everyone will.be judged by God. Those who's names are not found in the Lambs (Jesus) book of Life will be cast into hell. It's as simple as that. Jesus came to seek and to save all those that are lost. Sadly more people will remain lost than will be saved, even though salvation is so easy. It's because men love darkness rather than light. I am NOT saved because I am wonderful or better than anyone else. I am saved because I recognize that I AM a sinner and need Jesus. I believe in him for my salvation. I trust in HIM to save. Not because of my own works.

 

[RDKirk]

I haven't read this whole thread so please excuse me if this has been answered already. Is there a written policy that the player read and acknowledged that prohibited him from speaking out like that?

Others familiar with the details have said, yes there is. And that he has been warned multiple times that he was breaking the agreement.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This has cost Israel Millions of dollars. He has lost sponsorship worth millions and his International rugby career is ended unless he can change his public statements.

What good would it be if he gained the whole world (more millions of dollars, fame, any such),
but lost his soul (denying Jesus) ?

 

[rjs330]

Yes. No unbeliever is going to hell because he murdered or stole or lied or any other action.

Unbelievers are without salvation because of their unbelief. It doesn't matter what acts they are committing. They could, ostensibly, be "good people" doing all the things Christians do, yet they lack salvation because of unbelief. Their actions neither condemn nor save them--they have no faith and belief to save them.

There are unmarried people in my congregation who I know are having sex--heterosexually--with whomever they can get into bed with. And they have no intention in changing that lifestyle. Yet, they sit in the pews and sing praises to Jesus as loudly as anyone, even though refusing to let Jesus be Lord in that area.

I know people sitting in the pews with unforgiveness in their hearts. With hatred for Christians of other races in their hearts. And they all sing just as loudly on Sunday morning, even though they refuse to let Jesus be Lord in those areas.

I don't know what Jesus is ultimately going to do about those individuals. What I mean by "I don't know" is literally, "I don't know." I don't know how that particular person is going to end up in eternity.

I know I have adultery in my heart. Even if, at this stage in my life, my adultery is a matter of wishing my wife was, in certain ways, a different kind of woman--I've grown sophisticated enough in my understanding of sin to realize even that is adultery. I have so far refused to let Jesus be Lord in that area.

I have an aunt who has said some cruel and untrue things about my wife and my daughter that changed my relationship with her. I haven't applied Matthew 18 to that, and I know I should. I have refused to let Jesus be Lord in that area.

What is Jesus ultimately going to do about me?

I don't know. I do know that walking away from Christ is not the direction to the right answer. I know for all those other people that keeping them from Christ is not the direction to the right answer.

I know that when someone says, "Jesus is Lord," it does not mean that he has yet let Jesus be Lord in all areas of his life. That might not happen for a long, long time.

I have to let Jesus work that out in each person.

This is fantastic! What a wonderful and humble response. There are areas of my life where I too struggle. But I strive to live for him despite my struggles. That's why I trust in him to save me. Not because I am perfect. I need to apply 1 John on a regular basis. What you are feeling about your own sinfulness is the Holy Spirits conviction. Be thankful for that because it means you are still hearing the voice if God. When you stop hearing it, that's when you should worry.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is fantastic! What a wonderful and humble response. There are areas of my life where I too struggle. But I strive to live for him despite my struggles. That's why I trust in him to save me. Not because I am perfect. I need to apply 1 John on a regular basis. What you are feeling about your own sinfulness is the Holy Spirits conviction. Be thankful for that because it means you are still hearing the voice if God. When you stop hearing it, that's when you should worry.

Maybe not so fantastic.... if someone kills, or commits adultery, or perversion, or is greedy, they are resurrected to judgment, not to eternal life,

unless they are redeemed BEFORE they die.

THey might even believe that Jesus is the foretold Messiah, and still be resurrected to judgment ,
because EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE THAT, and they shudder in terror knowing the judgment that is sure that awaits them.

 

[rjs330]

Others familiar with the details have said, yes there is. And that he has been warned multiple times that he was breaking the agreement.

Thank you for that. Then I do believe he should be let go. I think a good example of this is the apostles. They stood up and said they would obey God rather than men. They were willing to face the consequences of those actions which meant beatings and imprisonment. This rugby player should also be willing to face the consequences, especially when he agreed to the policy in the first place. He is going back on his word.

 

[rjs330]

Maybe not so fantastic.... if someone kills, or commits adultery, or perversion, or is greedy, they are resurrected to judgment, not to eternal life,

unless they are redeemed BEFORE they die.

THey might even believe that Jesus is the foretold Messiah, and still be resurrected to judgment ,
because EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE THAT, and they shudder in terror knowing the judgment that is sure that awaits them.

I think you misunderstood. But that's okay. You're still my brother!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Thank you for that. Then I do believe he should be let go. I think a good example of this is the apostles. They stood up and said they would obey God rather than men. They were willing to face the consequences of those actions which meant beatings and imprisonment. This rugby player should also be willing to face the consequences, especially when he agreed to the policy in the first place. He is going back on his word.

He stood up for what is true, a true testimony of Jesus, which is more than most people anywhere are willing to do.

 

[rjs330]

He stood up for what is true, a true testimony of Jesus, which is more than most people anywhere are willing to do.

Yes and he faced the consequences of doing so. I think we believers sometimes want to have our cake and eat it too. But Jesus told us we would be hated. The apostles faced the consequences of expressing their faith. We must know that we will too. This rugby player is the facing the consequences of expressing his faith and the thing is he agreed not to do certain things and he did them anyway. He should be willing to face the consequences.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes and he faced the consequences of doing so. I think we believers sometimes want to have our cake and eat it too. But Jesus told us we would be hated. The apostles faced the consequences of expressing their faith. We must know that we will too. This rugby player is the facing the consequences of expressing his faith and the thing is he agreed not to do certain things and he did them anyway. He should be willing to face the consequences.

Even if he or we do not agree not to do certain things, we (everyone standing for the truth) are hated.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes and he faced the consequences of doing so. I think we believers sometimes want to have our cake and eat it too. But Jesus told us we would be hated. The apostles faced the consequences of expressing their faith. We must know that we will too. This rugby player is the facing the consequences of expressing his faith and the thing is he agreed not to do certain things and he did them anyway. He should be willing to face the consequences.

Tactically, however, he is still in the wrong with regard to facing the consequences of expressing his faith. He has not, in fact, "expressed his faith."

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, -- 1 Peter 3

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Colossians 4

He hasn't actually performed any of the requirements of those verses.

What is the reason for the hope you have? In other words, what is your own testimony? Do you have one?

I hear people say, "I've followed Jesus for thirty years!" I want to ask them, "Well, where have you and Jesus been? Got any road stories?"

Every believer should have a story of where he's been with Jesus in his life--a reason for his hope.

People want to say, "I tell people the truth with luuuuvvvvv."

Well, in scripture, love is action, not sentiment. "Telling the truth with love" means telling people the truth while you're ladling a second helping of soup into their bowls.

 

[rjs330]

Even if he or we do not agree not to do certain things, we (everyone standing for the truth) are hated.

Isn't that the truth!

 

[rjs330]

Tactically, however, he is still in the wrong with regard to facing the consequences of expressing his faith. He has not, in fact, "expressed his faith."

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, -- 1 Peter 3

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Colossians 4

He hasn't actually performed any of the requirements of those verses.

What is the reason for the hope you have? In other words, what is your own testimony? Do you have one?

I hear people say, "I've followed Jesus for thirty years!" I want to ask them, "Well, where have you and Jesus been? Got any road stories?"

Every believer should have a story of where he's been with Jesus in his life--a reason for his hope.

People want to say, "I tell people the truth with luuuuvvvvv."

Well, in scripture, love is action, not sentiment. "Telling the truth with love" means telling people the truth while you're ladling a second helping of soup into their bowls.

Amen to that!

 

[Kaon]

Well, in scripture, love is action, not sentiment. "Telling the truth with love" means telling people the truth while you're ladling a second helping of soup into their bowls.

 

[stevil]

Unbelievers are without salvation because of their unbelief. It doesn't matter what acts they are committing. They could, ostensibly, be "good people" doing all the things Christians do, yet they lack salvation because of unbelief. Their actions neither condemn nor save them--they have no faith and belief to save them.

I think it is important to assess what Christians mean by "belief" and "faith" especially if that is the key to salvation (going to heaven rather than hell for eternity).

There are two types of belief, as far as I understand it.
1. Justified belief - based on an appropriate level of supporting evidence.
2. Un-justified belief - this is making a choice to believe something despite the lack of supporting evidence or the lack of evidence disqualifying other "plausible" alternatives.

In the Christian context of belief for salvation, they definitely don't mean definition 1, but instead mean definition 2. (as far as i can gather, anyway).

So, I need to have an unjustified belief in order to be saved.
How does that make any sense? I need to believe in something even though there is no evidence for it?
Am I to write down all the gods onto a large dart board as well as "no god", blindfold myself, spin around a few times and throw a dart and choose to believe whatever it lands on?

This would be akin to an employer not bothering to read CVs or cover letters, but instead throwing each CV at a bin a few feet away. Those that fall outside the bin, get shortlisted, then repeat until just one CV is left. Then hire that person, after all, that person must be lucky and we desire a company of lucky employees.

On another note: When I teach my children about life and the world, I don't teach them to believe whatever I tell them. I think that would be bad parenting. Instead I teach my children how to do research, how to critically assess things, how to challenge, how to verify.

It is good to ask questions and also good to question answers.

If my children grow up not questioning answers then I have failed as a parent.

A claim that people need to believe to be saved, is an attempt to get them not to question, not to research. I find this despicable. It is emotionally blackmailing them into a con.

 

[rjs330]

I think it is important to assess what Christians mean by "belief" and "faith" especially if that is the key to salvation (going to heaven rather than hell for eternity).

There are two types of belief, as far as I understand it.
1. Justified belief - based on an appropriate level of supporting evidence.
2. Un-justified belief - this is making a choice to believe something despite the lack of supporting evidence or the lack of evidence disqualifying other "plausible" alternatives.

In the Christian context of belief for salvation, they definitely don't mean definition 1, but instead mean definition 2. (as far as i can gather, anyway).

So, I need to have an unjustified belief in order to be saved.
How does that make any sense? I need to believe in something even though there is no evidence for it?
Am I to write down all the gods onto a large dart board as well as "no god", blindfold myself, spin around a few times and throw a dart and choose to believe whatever it lands on?

This would be akin to an employer not bothering to read CVs or cover letters, but instead throwing each CV at a bin a few feet away. Those that fall outside the bin, get shortlisted, then repeat until just one CV is left. Then hire that person, after all, that person must be lucky and we desire a company of lucky employees.

On another note: When I teach my children about life and the world, I don't teach them to believe whatever I tell them. I think that would be bad parenting. Instead I teach my children how to do research, how to critically assess things, how to challenge, how to verify.

It is good to ask questions and also good to question answers.

If my children grow up not questioning answers then I have failed as a parent.

A claim that people need to believe to be saved, is an attempt to get them not to question, not to research. I find this despicable. It is emotionally blackmailing them into a con.

It's not about belief. It is about faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. The Bible says even the demons believe. Jesus said blessed we're the disciples because they believed on him when they saw him. He said we would be more blessed because we believed in him when we haven't seen him. It's more than simple belief. It's about faith. And faith is believing what we haven't seen.

Bad parenting for us would be to say "here is what I believe and have faith in, but you can believe whatever you want and that's okay." That's not okay at all. When your soul is at stake belief in whatever you want will land you in judgement and I would be a horrible parent if I didn't do whatever I could to point them to salvation rather than judgement.