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Is it Ethical to be fired for stating Christian beliefs

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Zoii, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    No, I don't think God is an integral part of marriage. In the Christian west, a marriage has historically been created by the free consent of both parties; at some point it became customary for clergy to pray for God's blessing on that marriage, but basically, in Christian thought, as long as they both say "I will" (or the cultural equivalent), they're married.

    That's why even though Catholics see marriage as a sacrament, they see the couple as the ministers of that sacrament.

    Now of course if you're Christian you're going to pray about your marriage and seek to love your spouse and live within that marriage as a Christian, so in that sense God is "part" of the marriage, but it doesn't make atheists any less married.
     
  2. samwise gamgee

    samwise gamgee Member Supporter

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    Not if what you said was true. You would be warning them.

    God's commands regarding marriage are given to the whole human race, not just to Christians. If a man and woman who are not committed to someone else choose to marry that is a valid marriage, regardless of whether or not they are Christians.
     
  3. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    The indications of scripture, such as Paul's instructions on selecting church leaders, indicates that Christians are to consider pagan marriages valid.

    It is still adultery, for instance, if a Christian man lusts after a pagan woman married to a pagan man.
     
  4. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No one is speaking against groups. Only speaking against actions contrary to the Word of God. That's it.
     
  5. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are right about that, that he understood it had a cost. His employer and apparently some fans of the sport are intolerant of diverse views. Had some Muslim been doing this, not a word would be said. No one said Rugby is a church - straw man again. But one's faith isn't left at the door as he enters the field or surfs the internet.

    I would say he is likely appealing because intolerance is wrong.

    And you are stating facts not in evidence. He is NOT standing on a platform provided by Rugby. And absolutely NO ONE said that any "people are terrible". Yet another straw man.

    He's tweeting Bible verses on his own time and on his own individual account. Don't like it? Don't follow him. There are plenty who spout nonsense I don't care to read.
     
  6. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually, I am not the one who is incorrect here, though you pulled one verse out of context.
    Acts 13:24 NIV.

    Why not try reading in context?
    Here are what the other translations say and here is the context.

    NKJV
    24 after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John was finishing his course, he said, ‘Who do you think I am? I am not He. But behold, there comes One after me, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to loose.’

    26 “Men and brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent.

    NRSV
    24 Before his coming John had preached a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John was finishing his course, he said, ‘What do you suppose that I am? I am not he. No, but after me one is coming, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to untie.’

    26 “Brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you that fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation.


    ----------------------------

     
  7. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No argument there, regarding the difference between condemnation and conviction. But you are assuming his intentions and you have no way of doing that.

    Maybe he is just young and indiscreet. Maybe he will become more diplomatic. Interesting that you are not willing to show him the slightest grace.
     
  8. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Was the rest there when you look through his messages as a whole? I don't know. I don't follow the guy.

    Sure, it is always best to deal in person in context with relationship but that is the very place that people become unwilling to do so because they want to protect feelings instead of speak truth. The confuse love with grace. But....some get saved while watching a late night TV show where some preacher calls out his sin and says that God wants to save him and he doesn't have to live this way. Some get saved through many means and pretty much all hear the message many times before it penetrates.

    It's not my method, but I don't have the same sphere of influence as this person.

    And boy, I'm glad I didn't have you advising me to see some doctor, where I'd still be on the merry-go-round. I've been totally free for 26 years. God did that. Free. When I got serious about wanting to change. What God has done endures forever.
     
  9. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    No, I'm not. Scripture plainly shows that people who portend to evangelism must be:

    1. Fully trained in the gospel
    2. Called to that office by the Holy Spirit
    3. Commissioned to an evangelistic mission by the congregation
    4. Held accountable for the accomplishment of that mission by the congregation
     
  10. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    Well, I guess technically they're also opposed to straight people who have gay relationships, but it seem like practically speaking that's not a very large group. So I really don't see the distinction between complaining about gay people and the actions that kinda define the membership in that group.

    But getting back to your point, are they speaking without hoping to change anything? Because earlier you seemed to object to the idea that their attacks against gay people were hoping to coerce change in their behavior.
     
  11. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    As evidenced by the higher rates of divorce among Christians.
     
  12. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

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    Seriously - thats quite obnoxious that you would indicate that all those billions of married couples that are not Christian DONT have a close marriage according to you - and they are not good people - that seems terribly adversarial

    Yes he is

    Yes he did
     
  13. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    All sexual immorality is forbidden by God. Not just this single action. You've got that right anyway.

    And quoting Bible verses is not an "attack" nor is making an assertion. If I say, "Watching one's parents turn on each other and then divorce hurts kids", I am not "attacking" divorced people.

    I'm stating an actual truth, that this action does hurt the children. It does.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  14. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture verse for that?

    Because this is entirely false. BELIEVERS are to preach the word, in season and out of season. Sure, they have to know the Word of God to do it, but that is bare minimum expectation for a believer in Jesus. The Holy Spirit fell on all the believers there at Pentecost, not just the 12, and they would ALL be His witnesses (evangelize) "but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

    The command in Matthew to go into all the world and preach the gospel including “teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” certainly includes the command to make disciples.

    When persecution arose against the Church in Acts, the regular believers scattered everywhere and they preached the Word of God:
    "3But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison.

    4Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word."

    In Ephesians 4, Paul states: 11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ. Those offices equip ALL BELIEVERS to do the work of the ministry, of which evangelism is a primary part. The 5 fold ministry is to prepare the BODY to do the work. They don't do all the work themselves.
     
  15. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wow, seriously?

    Otherwise without God, it is merely a contractual obligation like all others. Some may consider their marriages on that level, I guess. Those who believe scripture understand that it is a covenant between the man, woman, and the Lord.
     
  16. Jon Osterman

    Jon Osterman Well-Known Member

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    It is not adversarial - it is just a statement of my views. When I talk of "marriage" I am refering to the union of a man and a women before God, so if God is missing, by this definition they are not married. I will admit that this is not in line with the legal definition of marriage, with requires no belief at all, but that is not what I am talking about.

    Similarly, the definition of "Good" is, in my view, "pleasing to God". If you are not a Christian, you are not pleasing to God and you are not good. Very simple.

    I do of course recognise the "marriage" of non-Christians, in so much as I recognise that they are together and have made a commitment to one another, but I don't think of it as a Christian marriage. And I would of course give equal respect to a couple who were living together without the legal union.

    And again similarly, I am quite happy for you to have an alternate definition of "good", but to be frank, I don't know what that is. You just declared that I was "adversarial", so you would presumably not regard me as "good". I don't care, because it is clear to me that people outside the Christian faith will have very different definitions of good, so I will not try and have you fired from your job for expressing that view.
     
  17. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Yes, seriously. And it's not just my view; as I pointed out, it's pretty much been a consistently agreed Western Christian view for centuries, which is what has shaped American laws as they are.

    And I'd like to see the Scripture which supports your last sentence.
     
  18. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    With this statement: "That those that are gay, unmarried people having sexual relationships, those that drink to excess....[the list goes on] are sinful and all going to hell."

    Yes. He deserves to be fired.

    This isn't just expressing religious beliefs, but it is expressing it in an offensive way in where you are targeting the lives of many people who may or maynot associate with your beliefs.

    Imagine if an extreme muslim goes off and says those that believe God has a son, worship Jesus, read the "corrupt" nt are sinful and are all going to hell or deserve to be decapitated. You yourself would find this guy vile, crazy, and overall offensive. He is expressing his religious beliefs nonetheless, it's just beliefs involving you being killed.
     
  19. Jon Osterman

    Jon Osterman Well-Known Member

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    If he was advocating for people to be decapitated, then he would be inciting a crime. But if you leave the decapitation aside, then I would defend his right to say these things about me. In fact, I would welcome it and wear his words a s badge of pride, because it is good if the followers of a false religion are troubled by my righteousness.

    For that matter, I am pretty sure that all devout muslims would think I was going to hell (or whatever their equivalent is). Why would they not? At least this guy would be being honest.
     
  20. Zoii

    Zoii Well-Known Member

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    Jon - words mean a lot - people cannot see your heart - they cannot see your body language or know the true person you are. So when a person writes, the choice of words take on their own meaning. The words need to be clear, for fear of misinterpretation. I would ask you and your fellow Christians to think on that when they refer to other people as 'Not Good' or and that their marriage is not not close - I would, for example, say that Ghandi was good and his marriage was especially close.

    Most people, when they hear a phrase 'your not good' interpret it to mean that their conduct is morally poor..... most people when they hear that their marriage is 'not close' interpret that to mean that their marriage is conflictual and unloving. When you counsel other Christians, I would ask that you bear this in mind - lest, as I did, your comments be perceived as quite adversarial and lacking any basis in fact.

    Another thing to consider, is that despite what each religion espouses in terms of securing their soul, the truth is that religious conviction is largely about where you live in the world. If you live in the UAE then you will be Moslem. If you live in India then you will be predominantly Hindu. If you live in the USA then you are likely to be christian..... nothing upsets people more, when people of one country look across the waters to another country that engages in a different religion, and tells them that their marriage is ungodly and immoral. It does nothing to enhance you're own faith and only serves to alienate.

    Hahaha - Jon I have to give you this - that was witty - albeit I am a student and don't have a job - that said, a famous Australian criminal-come-writer once said 'never let facts get in the way of a good story.'
     
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