Is it Ethical to be fired for stating Christian beliefs

[FireDragon76]

Yes he denigrated. By saying 'Your going to hell' He is saying you are bad - You dont go to hell because your a fabulous person

I think that potentially oversimplifies evangelical's attitudes based on their soteriology. As Folau later pointed out in an interview, his belief is not based on personal animus.

 

[Paidiske]

Then perhaps one needs to consider the limitations of Twitter as a medium for sophisticated theological discourse.

 

[Zoii]

I don't know the full details of what happened in Australia but it sounds like it's a bit of an "open season" on people that disagree with what is deemed politically correct. And among many irreligious people in the US, there does seem to be declining respect as well

No people are welcome to be whatever religion they like. Rugby is unconcerned with ones religious convictions.

Its your last statement that hit home and is 100% correct where you said 'in the US, there does seem to be declining respect'..... He has been fired for disrespect towards a range of cohorts he disapproves of - In this case its his christian perspectives that has voiced significant disrespect for many followers, players and juniors that have supported him in his career and given him many lucrative benefits. It is quite the slap in the face to them.

 

[FireDragon76]

Then perhaps one needs to consider the limitations of Twitter as a medium for sophisticated theological discourse.

Good point. Are you saying, leave proclamation to the professionals? Doesn't that sort of torpedo that whole approach on evangelical religion? They expect so much out of ordinary laity, far more than is sensible.

 

[Zoii]

Why do they have men's teams and women's teams instead of mixed teams?

Or are they allowed to discriminate by gender?

There are mixed teams as well

 

[Paidiske]

No, I'm not saying leave proclamation to the professionals, not at all. (Ugh).

I'm saying that how and where and when you say something is important. You can't just put random soundbites out there - especially soundbites which are going to come across as hostile, even violent, in that social context - and expect that's going to convert people.

 

[Zoii]

I think that potentially oversimplifies evangelical's attitudes based on their soteriology. As Folau later pointed out in an interview, his belief is not based on personal animus.

Dont get me wrong - I dont think Israel has an mean bone in his body. He is a lovely man. But he's just such a flippin' Nong.

If I could talk to him personally I'd be like 'what da...wot do you think you are achieving...don't you think that how you have gone about things has achieved the exact opposite of your intentions?.... Did you not listen the first time, the second time, the third time when you were formally warned and counselled?.... whats wrong with you???

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thats not his job though. When you go to work each day do you tell your employer - 'Just so you know, dont expect e to abide by the terms of my employment. Saving souls is what I intend to do and if that doesnt fit with this job too bad' - see how that goes and let me know if you still have a job.

Ok so I should listen to my boss instead of listening to God then because I might get fired lol. Hmmm what’s worse getting fired or spending eternity in the lake of fire? That’s a tough choice. If my boss told me I couldn’t spread the gospel he wouldn’t need to fire me I would quit.

 

[FireDragon76]

No, I'm not saying leave proclamation to the professionals, not at all. (Ugh).

I'm saying that how and where and when you say something is important. You can't just put random soundbites out there - especially soundbites which are going to come across as hostile, even violent, in that social context - and expect that's going to convert people.

That's sort of the Jack Chick school of evangelism, though.

Jack Chick - Wikipedia

 

[Zoii]

Ok so I should listen to my boss instead of listening to God then because I might get fired lol. Hmmm what’s worse getting fired or spending eternity in the lake of fire? That’s a tough choice.

Well no - You have a choice of course - You could elect to resign because you recognise you can't respect the obligations placed upon you by your employer.

But dont expect to have it both ways. Either resign so you can preach islam and criticise christians (to use my example before) OR maintain your job AND maintain your religion MINUS the critical comments aforementioned.

 

[FireDragon76]

Dont get me wrong - I dont think Israel has an mean bone in his body. He is a lovely man. But he's just such a flippin' Nong.

If I could talk to him personally I'd be like 'what da...wot do you think you are achieving...don't you think that how you have gone about things has achieved the exact opposite of your intentions?.... Did you not listen the first time, the second time, the third time when you were formally warned and counselled?.... whats wrong with you???

Ok, I'm getting what you are saying: what he said was needlessly inflammatory.

I'm getting confused because some people here are implying that he's just mean to say that, and I don't see that as the case, that would be a misunderstanding of that subculture.

 

[Zoii]

Ok, I'm getting what you are saying: what he said was needlessly inflammatory.

I'm getting confused because some people here are implying that he's just mean to say that, and I don't see that as the case, that would be a misunderstanding of that subculture.

quite right - Im truly disappointed on so many levels. Here is a person that is just totally and utterly idolised by young people. As a Christian ... think of the platform he had to send all sorts of positive messages.

• Kids - heck I was pretty wild when I was young too but I decided NOT to take drugs and listen to my parents
• Dont smoke cigarettes because .......
• Be kind to people - dont get into fights
• Be respectful of the police and your elders
• Stay in school and study hard
• Love people dont hate them - Dont be a bully

Gosh just so much positive stuff could have come out of his mouth

Now we have lost one of our best players, and we have lost a beautiful and positive person from the public arena.

AND think what he has lost - his livlihood, the respect of the rugby community, and the bitter sadness of or young people that respected him so much.

Grrr....Im so annoyed he's such a Nong for doing this.

 

[Zoii]

I'm getting confused because some people here are implying that he's just mean to say that,

On some levels it was actually mean, despite Israel himself NOT being mean-minded.

He has children that come from homes where the parents are not married [for example] - whats he saying to that child? - your parents are bad and they will rot in hell.

Whats he saying to the girl that's playing rugby, who happens to have two mothers - You come from Hell-spawn?

Whats he saying to the rugby community that have shown him love, who happen to have a drink after the rugby matches?

Gosh I like him a lot but I could truly scream at his church for the ridiculous counselling he has obviously been given.

 

[FireDragon76]

quite right - Im truly disappointed on so many levels. Here is a person that is just totally and utterly idolised by young people. As a Christian ... think of the platform he had to send all sorts of positive messages.

• Kids - heck I was pretty wild when I was young too but I decided NOT to take drugs and listen to my parents
• Dont smoke cigarettes because .......
• Be kind to people - dont get into fights
• Be respectful of the police and your elders
• Stay in school and study hard
• Love people dont hate them - Dont be a bully

Gosh just so much positive stuff could have come out of his mouth

Now we have lost one of our best players, and we have lost a beautiful and positive person from the public arena.

AND think what he has lost - his livlihood, the respect of the rugby community, and the bitter sadness of or young people that respected him so much.

Grrr....Im so annoyed he's such a Nong for doing this.

At one time I used to hang out with these sorts of folks, even though I was never really one of them (and they knew it, I asked too many questions and disagreed with them, though I was polite about it). They are simple minded, they can believe some strange, even potentially harmful stuff, but they aren't mean-spirited. From an American standpoint, it's a different kind of "homophobia" than what you used to find on a schoolyard or in locker rooms. I'm not saying it's innocent or harmless but I think sometimes people personalize things a little too much and don't see shades of grey.

 

[Zoii]

It would be such a positive thing for churches [regardless of what religion and denomination] to use this as a case study.

Churches need to counsel their congregation far better. There is some Bat-Crazy advice given to parishioners as to how to go about spreading their religion.

Extremes such as ISIS will say - well cut their heads off if they dont comply - heck that'll convert them

At the other end of the spectrum we have people jumping on public media with negative messages and not positive ones. Why oh why would any christian imagine that there wouldnt be push back from a person saying - 'youre evil and you will burn for it'... Truly Id have thought it a no-brainer that it is the worst possible message and wont work.

Its as though pastors/immans/clerics etc get ZERO leadership and change management education.

Heck Im a student and I have had that type of training. Clearly Israel and his church leaders hadn't. Church leaders - use this failed attempt to send a message as a case study and discuss what positive messages could someone with an elite platform have sold instead.

 

[RDKirk]

Good point. Are you saying, leave proclamation to the professionals? Doesn't that sort of torpedo that whole approach on evangelical religion? They expect so much out of ordinary laity, far more than is sensible.

I think she meant that 140-character tweets do not make an effective evangelistic medium.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think she meant that 140-character tweets do not make an effective evangelistic medium.

It's certainly not good to throw out "clobber passages" like that, that's not effective preaching or even a sound method of reading the Scriptures. I think its bad enough when I've encountered that sort of thing in discussions here on the forum.

In my approach to Lutheranism, which is influenced by the Neo-Lutheranism of Gerhard Forde, we wouldn't necessarily see that as attacking somebody's character, but it is an unsolicited existential threat divorced from any context, and in that sense it is potentially offensive. Of course there are alot of people on the forum that would say, indignantly, "What's so offensive about the Bible?" and they are really missing the point altogether.


Gerhard Forde - Wikipedia

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well no - You have a choice of course - You could elect to resign because you recognise you can't respect the obligations placed upon you by your employer.

But dont expect to have it both ways. Either resign so you can preach islam and criticise christians (to use my example before) OR maintain your job AND maintain your religion MINUS the critical comments aforementioned.

Ok should I obey commands from all random people on the Internet or just you?

 

[FireDragon76]

Ok should I obey commands from all random people on the Internet or just you?

It isn't giving a command, just wise advice on how you get along in a world with people with very different points of view. Because if you can't even have a civil dialogue with somebody else, how do you possibly expect to be able to share anything meaningfully about your religious beliefs with anyone?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It isn't giving a command, just wise advice on how you get along in a world with people with very different points of view. Because if you can't even have a civil dialogue with somebody else, how do you possibly expect to be able to share anything meaningfully about your religious beliefs with anyone?

I don’t think anything I said was uncivilized.