Is it ethical to be a Christian in the US?

[FireDragon76]

This is a serious question I have been pondering: is it even ethical to be a Christian in the US? If we look at the fruits of Christianity in the US, right now it seems fairly dark and grim. All I have to do is turn on the news and see a society bursting at the seems with divisions, discord, and animosity, rather than coming together to deal with a pandemic. And it seems to me its mostly being instigated by the political Right in this country, often with the justification that they are in some kind of war or struggle with perceived non-Christians or anti-Christians who are "threatening" their way of life. Genuine concern for the actual humans behind the mask of their perceived enemies doesn't seem to factor in.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

This is a serious question I have been pondering: is it even ethical to be a Christian in the US? If we look at the fruits of Christianity in the US, right now it seems fairly dark and grim. All I have to do is turn on the news and see a society bursting at the seems with divisions, discord, and animosity, rather than coming together to deal with a pandemic. And it seems to me its mostly being instigated by the political Right in this country, often with the justification that they are in some kind of war or struggle with perceived non-Christians or anti-Christians who are "threatening" their way of life. Genuine concern for the actual humans behind the mask of their perceived enemies doesn't seem to factor in.

Yes

I guess I would have to counter with a response that my ENTP best friend Stan has made to similar kind of questions/statements: "Would you prefer we were a Buddhist country like Thailand, and have loads of child prostitution, poverty, disease, human organ trafficking, and general corruption?"

 

[Aussie Pete]

This is a serious question I have been pondering: is it even ethical to be a Christian in the US? If we look at the fruits of Christianity in the US, right now it seems fairly dark and grim. All I have to do is turn on the news and see a society bursting at the seems with divisions, discord, and animosity, rather than coming together to deal with a pandemic. And it seems to me its mostly being instigated by the political Right in this country, often with the justification that they are in some kind of war or struggle with perceived non-Christians or anti-Christians who are "threatening" their way of life. Genuine concern for the actual humans behind the mask of their perceived enemies doesn't seem to factor in.

The problem is I see is with the definition of "Christian" and the definition of "ethics". "Christian" is a label way too easy to apply. Since morality is so flexible these days, ethics are whatever people want them to be. If you are swayed by the world's ethics, you are God's enemy. That's pretty blunt, I realise, but it is the truth. The only moral standard that matters is God's standard. The road to destruction is broad. The road to life is narrow. Some people accuse me of being narrow minded. I take it as a sign that I'm on the right track.

 

[pdudgeon]

This is a serious question I have been pondering: is it even ethical to be a Christian in the US? If we look at the fruits of Christianity in the US, right now it seems fairly dark and grim. All I have to do is turn on the news and see a society bursting at the seems with divisions, discord, and animosity, rather than coming together to deal with a pandemic. And it seems to me its mostly being instigated by the political Right in this country, often with the justification that they are in some kind of war or struggle with perceived non-Christians or anti-Christians who are "threatening" their way of life. Genuine concern for the actual humans behind the mask of their perceived enemies doesn't seem to factor in.

That is both an interesting question, and a potentially very scary one.
When you ask about the fruits of Christianity in the U. S., I would be interested to hear what you perceive those fruits to be, before I answer your post.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes

I guess I would have to counter with a response that my ENTP best friend Stan has made to similar kind of questions/statements: "Would you prefer we were a Buddhist country like Thailand, and have loads of child prostitution, poverty, disease, human organ trafficking, and general corruption?"

That's a very timely question, since I see something like humanistic Buddhism as the most obvious alternative from a pragmatic standpoint, to both Christianity and secular humanism. This is the kind of Buddhism practiced in advanced nations such as South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan.

I don't believe the Buddhism of Thailand is particularly humanistic, but I'm not as much an expert on that nation's predominant religion. It seems to me, from what I little I know, it is on the whole no worse than the United States.

As far as expectations, I don't expect the US to be any different in my lifetime, Christian dominance will continue because of the inertia of tradition and herd. But the herd doesn't make something ethical.

 

[FireDragon76]

That is both an interesting question, and a potentially very scary one.
When you ask about the fruits of Christianity in the U. S., I would be interested to hear what you perceive those fruits to be, before I answer your post.

Racism and homophobia.

I have been listening to Buddhist Dharma talks from a temple in Denver and it really struck me there is nothing in Buddhism that countenances either attitude. The message was simple- the Buddha's compassion and love embraces everyone, without distinction, including you, go and do likewise. No insistances that only certain people can find Nirvana or salvation.

I do not expect perfection from common people but only Christians seem to cloak what a Buddhist might see as a blind passion, namely aversion or hatred, in sanctity.

 

[thecolorsblend]

This is a serious question I have been pondering: is it even ethical to be a Christian in the US? If we look at the fruits of Christianity in the US, right now it seems fairly dark and grim. All I have to do is turn on the news and see a society bursting at the seems with divisions, discord, and animosity, rather than coming together to deal with a pandemic. And it seems to me its mostly being instigated by the political Right in this country, often with the justification that they are in some kind of war or struggle with perceived non-Christians or anti-Christians who are "threatening" their way of life. Genuine concern for the actual humans behind the mask of their perceived enemies doesn't seem to factor in.

With respect, I think it's kind of strange to undermine or outright eliminate everything that once made society cohesive and then complain about the lack of cohesion in society.

America was once a pretty cohesive country. But, for better or worse, that is no longer the case. We're living with the results right now. Nobody wants it but nobody seems able to stop it either.

I see nothing "unethical" about being a Christian in the US.

 

[FireDragon76]

With respect, I think it's kind of strange to undermine or outright eliminate everything that once made society cohesive and then complain about the lack of cohesion in society.

America was once a pretty cohesive country. But, for better or worse, that is no longer the case. We're living with the results right now. Nobody wants it but nobody seems able to stop it either.

I see nothing "unethical" about being a Christian in the US.

What made society cohensive? Are you implying that the Native Americans, the Asians, and other people in the US that were not Christians were somehow not real Americans (despite in many cases contributing real labor to building this country)? Is America really only possible with white Christian nationalism as the "glue"? I don't think many of the Founding Fathers agreed with that sentiment... not at all.

 

[Charlie24]

This is a serious question I have been pondering: is it even ethical to be a Christian in the US? If we look at the fruits of Christianity in the US, right now it seems fairly dark and grim. All I have to do is turn on the news and see a society bursting at the seems with divisions, discord, and animosity, rather than coming together to deal with a pandemic. And it seems to me its mostly being instigated by the political Right in this country, often with the justification that they are in some kind of war or struggle with perceived non-Christians or anti-Christians who are "threatening" their way of life. Genuine concern for the actual humans behind the mask of their perceived enemies doesn't seem to factor in.

Regardless of your politics, the US is the largest exporter of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by far. God has a remnant that is getting the job done.

This is why America is blessed among all nations, but the time is drawing near when God will make a wrap of His work here on earth and Satan is making his push. Very successfully I might add.

 

[FireDragon76]

Regardless of your politics, the US is the largest exporter of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by far. God has a remnant that is getting the job done.

This is why America is blessed among all nations, but the time is drawing near when God will make a wrap of His work here on earth and Satan is making his push. Very successfully I might add.

It isn't clear how that's an ethical defense of being a Christian at all. Why are God's favors inherently good if they potentially come at the expense of others? Putting a "Good guy" or "Bad guy" mask on the issues really doesn't elucidate sound ethics in any meaningful way. That's the mentality of comic books, not serious ethical deliberation.

 

[Sketcher]

This is a serious question I have been pondering: is it even ethical to be a Christian in the US? If we look at the fruits of Christianity in the US, right now it seems fairly dark and grim.

Without Christianity, it would be a lot darker.

All I have to do is turn on the news and see a society bursting at the seems with divisions, discord, and animosity, rather than coming together to deal with a pandemic. And it seems to me its mostly being instigated by the political Right in this country, often with the justification that they are in some kind of war or struggle with perceived non-Christians or anti-Christians who are "threatening" their way of life. Genuine concern for the actual humans behind the mask of their perceived enemies doesn't seem to factor in.

Honestly, when people on the political Left excused the rioting and looting - where social distancing cannot be enforced or faithfully counted on - they showed how fake their concern is for dealing with the pandemic. There's plenty of blame to go around. I didn't attend any protests or rallies either way, and I still wear my mask in public. My church is still meeting online for the rest of the year.

 

[Charlie24]

It isn't clear how that's an ethical defense of being a Christian at all. Why are God's favors inherently good if they potentially come at the expense of others? Putting a "Good guy" or "Bad guy" mask on the issues really doesn't elucidate sound ethics in any meaningful way. That's the mentality of comic books, not serious ethical deliberation.

Did not Christ say, go you into all the earth and teach the Gospel? There is a remnant here in America who has taken that command seriously and ran with it.

In all the wrong that takes place on earth, the Gospel getting out is more important.

I would say that for this remnant this is the highest example of the defense of Christian ethics that can be found on this earth today.

One can sit around and wonder why God does this and not that, or he can go on his way about the work of the Lord. Sadly most opt out for the former.

 

[FireDragon76]

Did not Christ say, go you into all the earth and teach the Gospel? There is a remnant here in America who has taken that command seriously and ran with it.

In all the wrong that takes place on earth, the Gospel getting out is more important.

You seem to be suggesting blind adherence to religious authority rather than an appeal to reason and evidence.

I fail to understand how promulgation of a religious ideology supercedes the concrete needs of human beings. That's the opposite sort of thing that @Pavel Mosko was appealing to earlier.

I would say that for this remnant this is the highest example of the defense of Christian ethics that can be found on this earth today.

But it's not a real defense at all, merely a colonialism of religious dogma.

One can sit around and wonder why God does this and not that, or he can go on his way about the work of the Lord. Sadly most opt out for the former.

That does nothing to explain why "doing the work of the Lord" is ethical in the first place.

 

[FireDragon76]

Without Christianity, it would be a lot darker.


Honestly, when people on the political Left excused the rioting and looting - where social distancing cannot be enforced or faithfully counted on - they showed how fake their concern is for dealing with the pandemic. There's plenty of blame to go around. I didn't attend any protests or rallies either way, and I still wear my mask in public. My church is still meeting online for the rest of the year.

Have you stopped to consider the causes and conditions that give rise to many black people feeling the need to protest in the middle of the pandemic?

I watched the George Floyd video and I found it very disturbing, because you are literally seeing a man die on camera. I can fully understand why many black people feel upset and that the system is against them and not for them. Add onto that that black people dying from COVID-19 disproportionately, and the problem only looks worse. It seems that the treatment of George Floyd and the treatment of black peolpe in general in the US are interrelated moral failings and betray the notion that Christian believe in love or that all people are created in the "image of God".

Now, just add onto this many proponents of political Christianity in the US are saying that we should just accept the risks to our fellow Americans as an acceptable loss for a vibrant Wall Street stock market, and it's even more damning.

And this says nothing about manmade Climate Change, which would be a huge issue in itself.

 

[Sketcher]

Have you stopped to consider the causes and conditions that give rise to many black people feeling the need to protest in the middle of the pandemic?

I have.

I watched the George Floyd video and I found it very disturbing, because you are literally seeing a man die on camera. I can fully understand why many black people feel upset and that the system is against them and not for them. Add onto that that black people dying from COVID-19 disproportionately, and the problem only looks worse.

Same here, but you originally were talking about coming together to fight the pandemic. The virus does not care about any of this. Where people get together, it will spread.

It seems that the treatment of George Floyd and the treatment of black peolpe in general in the US are interrelated moral failings and betray the notion that Christian believe in love or that all people are created in the "image of God".

Some don't, some do. Some of those who don't have come at me for pointing some of this out.

Now, just add onto this many proponents of political Christianity in the US are saying that we should just accept the risks to our fellow Americans as an acceptable loss for a vibrant Wall Street stock market, and it's even more damning.

We can't let either public health nor the stock market tank. We've seen a glimpse of what can happen when the economy really goes to crap - the post-Katrina looting in New Orleans. That was Third World stuff happening in the US. A good economy is good for life. Obviously we shouldn't sacrifice the safety measures we need to keep the virus under control either, it needs to be balanced.

And this says nothing about manmade Climate Change, which would be a huge issue in itself.

There's nothing in Christianity that opposes cleaner forms of energy production.

 

[ViaCrucis]

One could just as easily ask if it's ethical to be an American in America--the fruit of America being what it is and all.

Rather:
Christianity in America is at war with itself. And it has been for a long time.

The question isn't "is it ethical to be Christian in America?", but "what does it mean to have Christian ethics in America?"

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Fr. Helder Camara

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Have you stopped to consider the causes and conditions that give rise to many black people feeling the need to protest in the middle of the pandemic?

Feel the need? Now all of the sudden reason and evidence don't matter, just feelings?

I watched the George Floyd video and I found it very disturbing, because you are literally seeing a man die on camera. I can fully understand why many black people feel upset and that the system is against them and not for them.

In that very same police department just three years ago, a black officer gunned down an unarmed white woman. The city didn't burn then. Give it a rest. You're not being virtuous when you make excuses for black people when they behave badly.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is a serious question I have been pondering: is it even ethical to be a Christian in the US? If we look at the fruits of Christianity in the US, right now it seems fairly dark and grim. All I have to do is turn on the news and see a society bursting at the seems with divisions, discord, and animosity, rather than coming together to deal with a pandemic. And it seems to me its mostly being instigated by the political Right in this country, often with the justification that they are in some kind of war or struggle with perceived non-Christians or anti-Christians who are "threatening" their way of life. Genuine concern for the actual humans behind the mask of their perceived enemies doesn't seem to factor in.

Christianity is based on a persons Faith that Jesus forgives them.

It has absolutely nothing to do with what other people do.

 

[FireDragon76]

Christianity is based on a persons Faith that Jesus forgives them.

It has absolutely nothing to do with what other people do.

According to the Buddha, good friends are the whole of the holy life. I accept this teaching as valid, as I believe it is simply intuitive- our friends can influence us for good or bad.

According to most Christians, fellowship with other Christians is a normal or necessary part of a Christian life.

So I do think these notions are potentially not reconcilable, at least for me personally. And I suspect, for a great many other people that are "none" or "done".

One could just as easily ask if it's ethical to be an American in America--the fruit of America being what it is and all.

I don't think all Americans are equally accountable for the problems in our country. Somebody whose ancestors were brought over on ships as slaves, for instance, can hardly be blamed for white privilege.

Rather:
Christianity in America is at war with itself. And it has been for a long time.

Well, it's always best to avoid a war zone if you don't want to get hurt.

 

[FireDragon76]

Feel the need? Now all of the sudden reason and evidence don't matter, just feelings?

Peoples feelings have causes, they don't arise from nothing. So your point is irrelevant.

Understanding other peoples feelings is an important part of having empathy, which I consider a good thing. It has to do with seeking a life of integrity. There are certain virtues that are conducive to that, and others that are incompatible.

In that very same police department just three years ago, a black officer gunned down an unarmed white woman. The city didn't burn then. Give it a rest. You're not being virtuous when you make excuses for black people when they behave badly.

That's not an excuse for the murder of George Floyd under the color of law.