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Is it "controversial" for pastors to disagree with COVID-19 church closures?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BABerean2, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Depends on your point of view.
    Many people wear masks because they care for their brothers and sisters and want to protect them.
     
  2. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    So.....are speed limits, turn signals, and traffic laws equally "satanic" and based on fear and superstition in your view?

    We ARE potential carriers. My dear friend died several years ago because she got the flu from her hair stylist that neglected to tell my friend that she (hair stylist) had a fever and was coughing and couldn't relieve her cough. A simple phone call could have saved my dear friend's life. How in the world did caring for others get twisted into "satanic" and "living in fear".

    Are you fearless enough to go without a seat belt while in a car and to remove items from your oven bare-handed? Are oven mits equally "satanic".....or are only preventions for the safety of others that?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on your logic, should you get a respirator with a rubber face seal to more effectively filter out all aerosol droplets? Will you need to wear it for the rest of your life every time you leave your home?

    Tuberculosis continues to be a disease carried through aerosol droplets. Look at the number of people who die every year of Tuberculosis. Why have you not been wearing a mask before last year?

    Should you wear your mask to make sure you do not transmit the seasonal Flu, because it could kill some people with lowered immunity?


    Are you a Christian who is afraid of death?
    If you are, I hope the following Gospel song helps you.
    Molly Scaggs sings "Ain't No Grave"




    .
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  4. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    I don't need a respirator, I can breathe on my own.
    Some vulnerable patients who get Covid end up on respirators.

    I'm not aware that we have TB in my country, nor has anyone advised me to take steps to avoid it.

    Some might do - others had a free flu jab.

    No.
    But that doesn't mean that I am going to start smoking/drinking, stand in front of a speeding train or take up free fall parachuting.

    I am certain that my 23 month old brother is in heaven. I know that I will see him again one day, and my parents probably will too.
    I also know for a fact that if they could have had him immunised against the illness that killed him, they would have.
     
  5. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You have it, but it's at a low level. Keeping it at a low level requires continuing care by public health staff, though you may well be in a situation where you don't have to do anything. https://thorax.bmj.com/content/73/8/702
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The respirators found in hospitals are not usually purchased by the average person.

    Wearing a paper or cloth dust mask is not going to protect you from viruses in aerosol droplets, because it does not seal around your face. That type of mask would not even pass OSHA regulations for spraying paint.

    I am talking about the kind of respirator found below.


    .
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  7. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    We haven't been advised that we need to wear those, so no.

    The masks don't protect us completely; they are a precaution.
    Fact is that unless you touch/kiss someone with Covid and then touch your face/put your hands in your mouth, it's probably ok.
    But like I said, no one wants to think that they are causing someone else distress, or to become ill. Wearing a mask has become a sign of care, and love. It's no big deal for most people.
     
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You seem to be saying wearing a mask that does not work in stopping the spread of the virus, is somehow a symbol of caring about other people.

    If you wore a paint respirator it would help stop the spread the virus, but you seem unwilling to do that.
    You have just exposed one of the biggest problems with the mask mandates.

    During the last year and a half I saw one person wearing a paint respirator.
    Were all others just putting on a theatrical performance?

    My wife had the virus several months ago. Should she have to wear a mask to show she cares for other people?


    Dr. Rand Paul on wearing masks:


    .
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  9. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I understood her to be saying what most public health officers have been saying.....that we can't guarantee against spreading the virus - but we are making attempts at slowing the spread. Medical personnel do all they can while working with confirmed cases....but, even with all the precautions, they've still become infected. This is about reducing the risk - not a guarantee. Nothing is guaranteed. But we ought to care enough to join together as communities (especially in a church environment!) and abide by the precautions we've been advised by those that are studying this virus.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  10. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Ok, and the experts are not all singing from the same hymn book. Beneath all the technical jargon, it's actually quite simple, the scientific method has not been followed in several key respects here.

    Sorry to hear that. I hope you stay well. The longer term effects are totally unknown.

    Seeing as between 70-90% of fatalities had multiple serious preconditions or frailties, and the 'treatment' in many cases has been harsh and invasive, it's a little unfair to saddle 'Covid' with the blame.

    So far so good. But there are many who've suffered severely and even died:
    Reported Vaccine Injuries Continue to Climb, Pfizer Seeks Full Approval for COVID Vaccine • Children's Health Defense

    Keep in mind that VAERS is only a passive reporting system, and as few as 1% of injuries are reported (according to a Harvard study).

    The fact is you're playing Russian Roulette with these experimental poisons.

    That's where we disagree. These 'vaccines' have been developed by drug companies like Pfizer, Astrazeneca and J&J, all of whom have extensive criminal histories of falsifying data, bribing physicians and God knows what else. They are in it for the money, and they have procured full indemnities from govts. For these and other reasons, they are NOT to be trusted.

    Let's pray harder!
     
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  11. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Obviously not the same thing. Get a grip.
     
  12. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Wearing a mask and keeping your distance from other people - 2 m - makes it less likely that you will catch any germs from them, including Covid.
    These things, and washing your hands, sanitising surfaces etc, all help to slow the spread of the illness.

    We haven't been advised we have to do that.

    I've no idea what the rules are in your country.
    Here, people wear masks whether they've had Covid or not. In some places, you don't get into a shop unless you have a mask on.
    Certainly the attitude "I've had Covid so I'm ok - never mind anyone else" would be seen as selfish.
     
  13. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Don't be sorry that scientists have been working tirelessly to discover a vaccine that will keep people safe and that we can benefit from that. Nurses, retired nurses and medics, pharmacists etc are working their socks off to vaccinate everyone in the country because they want to keep them safe. In my country, this vaccine is free of charge.
    People who have had the vaccine feel safer, and it has been shown to be effective.

    All this is something to rejoice and that God for - not be sorry.

    Covid has lead many to spend time in ICU, on ventilators, gasping for breath. Not all of those people had pre existing conditions or were elderly.

    How many more have died from Covid?

    It's also playing Russian roulette to say "I don't need to wear a mask and I'm not going to have a vaccination either. I'll be fine; if I do get Covid, I'm not going to die from it."

    Scarlet fever, smallpox, diphtheria etc are illnesses that we no longer have to worry about, thanks to very successful vaccination programmes.
    There have been people who've said, "I'm not subjecting my child to a vaccination for measles", and then been utterly distraught when their child became severely ill, or died from, measles.
     
  14. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    You like to ignore what doesn't fit your beliefs. The virus has never been properly isolated, therefore you cannot develop an effective vaccine.

    The drug companies' effectiveness claims are limited to reduction of severity of symptoms, and as they have not released the study data, even those claims are unverified. 'Feeling safer' on an experimental 'shot in the dark' product is irrational and a sure sign of misplaced faith. But ok, if you're vaccinated, what do you care if I am or not? You should be protected, right?

    I'll rejoice when the veils are lifted.

    Yes, and the ventilators have been proven to be death machines. In NY, something like 97% of ppl >65 who were ventilated never survived. There's court cases brewing over that. Any half-decent nurse knows that ventilation, sedation, intubation is a lethal mix.

    Well if 90% have died 'with' Covid and not 'of' Covid, and the test is potentially wildly inaccurate because of the non-isolation issue, as well as other issues with PCR test parameters, we'll never know. Since officially 99.7% of positive cases recover, I'd suggest the real numbers (ex misdiagnosis) are no more than the flu. And there are world leading experts saying this too.

    No it is not. It's been known since 1918 that masks are ineffective at reducing transmission.

    No, the vaccines were only introduced for those when the numbers were already dwindling, probably due to natural immunity. To trust in God is trust in natural immunity, not a witches brew of heavy metals, dead babies and assorted filth.

    Where? The incidence of childhood illness, particularly auto-immune conditions, has increased significantly with the growth of vaccines. You can't pump tonnes of foreign toxic rubbish into a newborn and not expect bad results. What are ppl thinking?
     
  15. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Ditto.
     
  16. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Er, on this occasion I've had the advantage of considering both sides of the argument. Until the virus and vaccine proponents can come clean with their data and explain the gaping holes in their methodology, all the fearmongering in the world won't get them across the line, least not in my book.
     
  17. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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  18. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    If that's what you believe, and if that belief leads you to refuse to have a vaccination, you have a right to do so. It may be, in time, that you are protected from Covid simply because all of those around you are vaccinated against it - so you benefit from their decision.
    I have already had my first jab. A lot of people at my church have had both, and those who haven't yet, all say they are looking forward to their second one. Many other people that I meet say the same.

    As for wearing masks; in my country, masks are to be worn in enclosed spaces - shops, buildings, public transport etc. We do not need to wear masks in the open air, and most of us don't.
    The simple fact is that if you are not wearing a mask, and don't have anything to show that you are medically exempt, you don't get into the shop/on the bus - it doesn't matter how much science you argue with the security man/driver.
     
  19. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    As I've had my 1st vaccination and have the second one booked, it would make no difference.
     
  20. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Not according to Dr Bhakdi and others - the risk increases with each shot. Watch the video, why so stubborn.
     
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