Is it christian to do this

[Goodbook]

I think theres something a bit creepy how...babies arent made with love these days. :-(

 

[AWomanNamedDamaris]

Never Let me Go.

I've been wanting to read that. It seems interesting and sad.

 

[Yahu_]

So the sterile husband mistreated his child that was had by surrogacy but treated his younger brothers children, his nephews or neices - with gifts?

Sorry your post is a bit confusing.

No, not the sterile husband. The husband treated all of the kids he raised as his own. His younger brother was the surrogate for the second, third and fourth child. That brother, the biological father of those kids treated them special while ignoring his eldest 'nephew' who was not related by blood.

 

[Yahu_]

Ok just read it trhough again

So the younger brother bought his surrogate children gifts...but not the one had by you. But you dont even talk to the one you had. It seems to me maybe you the one who was in a rush.

The younger brother wouldnt have caused problems as he had no reason to prefer the son that he didnt have biologically. That was your role.

I think you misunderstand the situation.

This occurred right before I got out of the military and returned home. I wasn't in any rush. They asked me to be the surrogate father but we followed scripture to try for healing 1st at my insistence. They wanted me to be the surrogate for all their future children but it wasn't feasible with me across the country from them. I told them to use the younger brother as the future surrogate once he was of age. So yes, I bear some of the blame for what happened. The younger brother couldn't just be a surrogate and deal with issues of giving that child (children) as a gift.

I promised that I would not be a problem and totally gave over the child to the couple as their child.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I think theres something a bit creepy how...babies arent made with love these days. :-(

If you read the Bible stories, it sounds like they weren't then either. Hagar, Tamar, etc.. seemed to have no real say in the matter.

 

[Yahu_]

Ok so this biological son of yours Yahu.
Who you gave up to your christian infertile couple. Since hes the FIRSTBORN does he get privleiges of inheritance?

Not sure why later they had more but..
If you read story of Tamar even the third husband she was promised didnt work so she ended up having children by her father in law (by disgusing herself as harlot) and had twins. So it kinda had to stay in the Judah line.

But in your case I dont see the reasoning. Compeltely different scenario to judah and tamar. Of course Judah was wrong to marry a cannaite woman. And go with prositutes. But obviously, its written in the bible as Pharez was the ancestor of Jesus.

However this doesnt mean that we as christians have this need to procreate and continue a family lineage does it? Unless this couple that were infertile had a dynasty or something. Were they wealthy? Not saying they may have paid you off but why exactly did they NEED to have a child right then. In tamars case, she was a widow...

What I don't understand is your need to be judgmental. Why do you assume Tamar was a Canaanite? Judah didn't marry Tamar. A levirate wife was not a normal wife but just needed a child of the right lineage to conform to inheritance law.

The story of Tamar was about inheritance law. In my case, the couple's pastor referenced it as going to a secondary source for a child since Tony was sterile and never could have children according to their doctor. They chose a brother in Christ over a brother by blood out of their love for me because there was no issue over inheritance. The couple had the blessing of both their parents, their pastor and board of elders of their church to try the surrogate path for children. No one else's judgement is even relevant.

As to why does a couple want more then one child, that isn't your concern. It is a private choice of any couple on how many kids they want to raise but children are a blessing from Yah. Your understanding or approval isn't required. One of the very first commandments is 'be fruitful and multiply'. A desire to follow that commandment as a young couple is something to be applauded.

The levirate laws are some of the sexual exceptions laws concerning alternate ways to gain a child. That is why the story is pertinent to surrogate situations as is the surrogate situations of Sarah (Hagar) as well as the situations with Leah and Rachel both allowing their handmaidens as surrogates. There is nothing wrong with a surrogate situation to gain a child that is loved and wanted.

What we found out later was that Tony's sterility was from a curse sent by witchcraft. Estelle's roommate in the AF was a witch that wanted to punish her. The coven put the sterility curse on Tony and a love spell on Estelle towards me to cause problems in both our marriages. Their efforts failed in everything accept Tony's sterility which we broke off several times but the coven kept replacing the curse. It wasn't Yah's will to keep them childless but a malicious attack of the enemy.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Personally I don't see anything unchristian about it. It's incredibly unselfish - personally I am way too attached/selfish to surrogate, I couldn't give a child up to another couple for their happiness, especially considering my past. However, it is a big gift to help those born with medical issues that prevent them from having their own child to love, especially when it comes to donating eggs or sperm. Adoption certainly isn't unchristian. I feel very badly for those who ache for a child but cannot have one of their own and don't have options open to them - adoption can be terribly expensive and hard to get, donor lists are closed and too expensive with fertility treatment. It's tough.

 

[Yahu_]

Personally I don't see anything unchristian about it. It's incredibly unselfish - personally I am way too attached/selfish to surrogate, I couldn't give a child up to another couple for their happiness, especially considering my past. However, it is a big gift to help those born with medical issues that prevent them from having their own child to love, especially when it comes to donating eggs or sperm. Adoption certainly isn't unchristian. I feel very badly for those who ache for a child but cannot have one of their own and don't have options open to them - adoption can be terribly expensive and hard to get, donor lists are closed and too expensive with fertility treatment. It's tough.

It is far easier for a man to be a surrogate by just donating his sperm. I can understand how a woman being a surrogate would be a far harder thing to do dealing with carrying that child then giving it up.

Yes, it is kind of hard knowing I have a biological son I have never met in person but we have spoken on the phone. He was 17 when he found out I was his biological father. I am listed on his birth certificate as the father which was kept hidden from his as a child. He is 28 now and I may be a biological grandfather but we lost contact many years ago. I don't even remember Estelle's maiden or married name to locate him. I don't remember his last name and his mother remarried when Tony was killed in a car accident years ago.

 

[FredVB]

I would say something like that should only happen for a believer after really praying. The real reasons need to be clear, there could be such that is charitable, but any selfish reasons should be known. And there are alternative choices to be explored. Think of children that there are waiting and wanting to still be adopted.

 

[JCFantasy23]

My friend's cousin is actually having a baby next month through a surrogate mother. They're a gay couple, and my friend said there is a website where gay couples are looking for women to carry children for them. I had never heard of such a thing. They are paying the medical bills but nothing else besides paperwork fees to write up the contracts, etc. She will have some connection with the child too and have a small part of their life - to me it sounds like a disaster that could blow up and become awkward/painful, but that's just me.

 

[Goodbook]

Im sorry if it comes across judgemental but i still have questions about it that remain unanswered and not convicned its the right thing to do for a christian.


With hagar and tamar you do see the consequences of surrogacy or playing the harlot -lot of heartache and pain.

 

[Goodbook]

One cannot shift blame the brother for not being an uncle for his non biological children when you yourself are not even an uncle to his and only contacted your biological son ONCE.

Honestly is this not hypocritical?

 

[Goodbook]

If someone is sterile, Jesus touched on this regarding eunuchs, they dont HAVE to marry and have children. It is NOT a requirement to be married and have children to enter the kingdom.

 

[Goodbook]

I know of a couple who had IVF baby, their only child, was born a girl and switched to be a boy. It cost them thouands of dollars to have the treatment. Its costing the child i dont know how much to have gender reassigned. I really dont know what goes on in those testtubes.

 

[Goodbook]

Think about how God sent his only begotten son into this world to be looked after by step dad Joseph. That was a big risk dont you think? Yet Jesus still had a relationship with his heavenly Father...his actual biological father.

Joseph later went on to have his own children with Mary.


We dont know if Joseph treated Jesus any different from the other children (apart from having the unique priveliges of being firstborn) but in the end it doesnt matter cos God looked after his only son.

 

[Goodbook]

I think its the whole in secret thing that bothers me, like how ppl keep their biological children in the dark . Why would you NOT tell your son (or daughter) that they are your blood relation. Each child wants to know who they are the image of.

 

[Yahu_]

Im sorry if it comes across judgemental but i still have questions about it that remain unanswered and not convicned its the right thing to do for a christian.

With hagar and tamar you do see the consequences of surrogacy or playing the harlot -lot of heartache and pain.

Playing the Harlot is a reference to a position in the groves in the pagan sexual worship. A young girl would publicly sacrifice her virginity on the alter of Baal to the priests of Baal then she would become a ritual prostitute for a year then offer her 1st child to Molech. This is why most of the child sacrifices found in the Tophets are of children 1-3 months in age, not still borns. The children would be sacrificed one year after their offering of their virginity on the anniversary of the pagan holy day. It also involved public sex acts with the various sized Asherah poles, ie standing phallic symbols made by cutting down young trees in the grove and leaving the shaft rooted in the ground and carved as a phallus with an image of one of the goddesses carved on the shaft. To graduate, a girl has to be able to use the largest diameter Asherah Pole. This generally could not be done until after having a child because of the large size. So she was very loose before she could leave the role and have the priests blessings to marry. It also involved teaching the girls witchcraft conducted in the worship of Asherah and Ashtoreth as well as seduction tactics and control of men via sex. That is why it means to 'play the harlot'. An even younger virgin would 'play the bear' in the grove because a hunter killed the sacred bear that lived in her grove so a young girl stood in 'as the bear'.

'Playing the Harlot' was playing the role of the goddess Ashtoreth in fertility worship in the Baalim worship. The activities were designed to destroy marriages when you took a young bride only to find her not sexual appealing to her new husband by ruining her physical tightness.

 

[Yahu_]

Im sorry if it comes across judgemental but i still have questions about it that remain unanswered and not convicned its the right thing to do for a christian.

Again, no one is asking for your approval. I stated my own personal experience with being a surrogate father. Whether you agree or disagree if it was the right thing to do is irrelevant. Those involved believe it was the right thing to do at the time while looking to scripture and following it for an answer.

The child conceived was loved and raised in a Christian household. So unless you have to deal with the same situation within your own life, how is it even your concern? Are you a prophetess sent to bring correction? Who appointed you as judge of other people's lives?

Tony's sterility was sent by witchcraft. The entire situation was one issued in a major spiritual battle between me and a high priestess of Ashtoreth and her coven. I do hold the office of prophet and that is why Estelle wanted my child if she could not have Tony's. It was out of love and respect of me. The coven members mostly ended up in prison or dead because of that conflict. This was just one of the traps they laid in an attempt to destroy me. They were furious with how we dealt with the situation with me used as a surrogate instead of instigating an affair like the planned. Things escalated until the coven was convicted of their criminal activities. They sabotaged a military aircraft in one attempt on my wife. They were convicted of treason because of that. One of the witches later got saved and we found out what was going on behind the scenes and found out about the sterility curses sent against Tony.

I will leave you with a prophetic word that came through me in another disagreement that also applies here:

"My precious daughter,
See them as I see them.
See them filtered by the blood.
See them for the Glory they can achieve.
Weep! Weep for my lost children!
Weep as I weep for them!
I didn't call you to be an accuser of your brethren.
I called you to love one another and draw them to Me by your love."

So concern yourself with your own judgmental problems and repent of it. You are demonstrating a lack of love (error in Rev 2:1-7) and judging others when they do act out of love for their brethren. Was being a surrogate the BEST solution? No. A healing for Tony's sterility was the BEST solution but there is the good, exceptable and perfect will of the Father. But we did try for that healing first. I even sent Tony to his board of elders to get anointed with oil and prayed over. He was told they don't do that in their church (Lutheran) BUT scripture says to do so, so they did it anyway. We found out that when I prayed for him and when his elders did so, it broke the curse but the coven renewed it with a replacement curse each time. The demon summoned for the curse reported back to the witch that sent it every time the curse was broken. All we had to do was break the curse and command the demon not to report back but we didn't know that at the time.

 

[JCFantasy23]

One cannot shift blame the brother for not being an uncle for his non biological children when you yourself are not even an uncle to his and only contacted your biological son ONCE.

Honestly is this not hypocritical?

It makes it more painful for the parent, adoptive parents and child to keep in contact some of the time. Then another bond forms where can cause regret, confusion or anger. Most of the time surrogates do not keep in contact.

 

[Yahu_]

It makes it more painful for the parent, adoptive parents and child to keep in contact some of the time. Then another bond forms where can cause regret, confusion or anger. Most of the time surrogates do not keep in contact.

Correct. I made an agreement that I would NOT interfere with their raising of that child. I passed all responsibility for that child over to Tony and vowed I would not become a problem for them. When Tony's brother took over being surrogate for the rest of the children, he made no such agreement and became a problem to the family.