Is it christian to do this

[Goodbook]

rachel was like give me children or else I die.

Well we know what happened to her.

 

[Goodbook]

these barren or childless women, one had faith and learned to accept but the other two didnt.

I cant rememeber what the title of these were at the moment...I do think that God has his reasons for not opening wombs and often its to protect the woman not that he thinks she wont be a good mother. Childbirth is risky and painful and often distracts women from a simple calling to please the Lord. Cos they then have to please inaddition, a husband AND baby.

 

[Goodbook]

Hannahs cry was genuine though but thing is she dedicated Samuel to the Lord. I dont know if many people do that, have a child and then give the child away to the One who made it possible.

 

[Yahu_]

be a surrogate mother, sell your eggs or donate sperm?

On one hand, it could be selfless, you want another person to be a parent.
But on the other hand it could be really selfish. Maybe you doing it for other reasons. Or the wannabe parents are selfish.

But maybe they could be christians. Could they? Do infertile couples who are christians do this or would they be more likely to adopt.

Am just wondering as, it seems older or infertile couples seem willing to go through the expense of IVF and have test tube babies these days. Is it ok for christians to consider having a test tube baby?

I was a surrogate father for a young couple with a sterile husband. They had tried to have children right after they were married. The wife was in the military in the same dorm as my wife and I. I was a newly wed as well. I had given the couple there premarital and marital counseling because of how they admired the relationship between my wife and I. When they found out they couldn't have children of their own they went to their pastor. He suggested the story of Tamar and Onon, the use of the Levirate laws in the OT to provide a child but the husband's younger brother was too young. They asked my wife and I if I would be a surrogate father for them with their pastor's and parents agreement. Before I agreed, we prayed for healing 1st and I also sent him to the pastor and elders to be prayed for and anointed according to scripture. They were in a rust to have the first child while the wife was still in the military to cover medical expenses so a few months later I agreed to be their surrogate.

I have a biological son from that. The couple had 4 children they raised but the latter 3 were the biological offspring of the husband's younger brother once he was older.

As a late teen my son found out about me. We have never met but have spoken on the phone.

I personally see no problem with being a surrogate. It was considered giving the gift of a child to a couple that were close christian friends. It was the 3 other children by the younger brother that caused problems. That brother didn't behave as an uncle for the younger 3 but brought them gifts and mistreated the eldest child that was not his child.

 

[Yahu_]

Onan also was sinful in not wiling to marry his widowed brothers wife and instead just donate sperm...on the ground.

Seems to me its unnatural and going against Gods plan.

I am seeing more and more testtube children and often they have gender issues.

Onan's sin was greed! He didn't want Tamar to have a child that would gain the double portion of the eldest son being past to a son of hers. He also used her for sex BUT refused to give her a child. The ONLY purpose for their sexual interaction was for that child.

The marriage contract was that Tamar's husband was due 50% of Judah's wealth. With her husband dead, a wife could not inherit. She required a child by Judah or one of his sons to gain that inheritance. Without it, she was not fit to gain another good marriage as a widow and could have starved without support.

Onon would only get 25% inheritance if Tamar had a son. If she didn't, Onon would get 66% of Judah's wealth. It was WHY he spilled his seed that angered Yah. He was breaking the marriage covenant of his sister-in-law out of GREED.

The Levirate laws allowed a childless woman to gain an alternate heir by a family member of her husband's line to secure the inheritance and keep wealth within the family.

 

[Goodbook]

Thanks for sharing but im Confused.
How was it you became a surrogate did you have relations with another wife. And you already have a Wife?

They were in a rush? Because of money? Couldnt they have waited? So they only have one son?

 

[Goodbook]

So the sterile husband mistreated his child that was had by surrogacy but treated his younger brothers children, his nephews or neices - with gifts?

Sorry your post is a bit confusing.

 

[Goodbook]

Ok just read it trhough again

So the younger brother bought his surrogate children gifts...but not the one had by you. But you dont even talk to the one you had. It seems to me maybe you the one who was in a rush.

The younger brother wouldnt have caused problems as he had no reason to prefer the son that he didnt have biologically. That was your role.

 

[Goodbook]

Well thinking it over it seems some ppl in too much of a hurry to have children just cos they dont have any straight away doesnt mean they wont have any at all.

 

[Goodbook]

Onan's sin was greed! He didn't want Tamar to have a child that would gain the double portion of the eldest son being past to a son of hers. He also used her for sex BUT refused to give her a child. The ONLY purpose for their sexual interaction was for that child.

The marriage contract was that Tamar's husband was due 50% of Judah's wealth. With her husband dead, a wife could not inherit. She required a child by Judah or one of his sons to gain that inheritance. Without it, she was not fit to gain another good marriage as a widow and could have starved without support.

Onon would only get 25% inheritance if Tamar had a son. If she didn't, Onon would get 66% of Judah's wealth. It was WHY he spilled his seed that angered Yah. He was breaking the marriage covenant of his sister-in-law out of GREED.

The Levirate laws allowed a childless woman to gain an alternate heir by a family member of her husband's line to secure the inheritance and keep wealth within the family.

Would most surrogates be related to family. Onan was the brother in law. He wasnt married at the time was he. Was it not also he had to Marry tamar? If he had a son by her, then wouldnt he as a parent pass on the inheritance to his own son. What would he have to lose. It wasnt just the child he could have but tamar as his wife.

 

[Goodbook]

I didnt know you could be a surrogate if you were already married. Or maybe you have to be? Im confused now.

 

[Paidiske]

There's a difference between being a surrogate and being a donor.

A surrogate is a woman who carries a pregnancy, but when the child is born surrenders it to another person/couple to raise.

A donor provides either egg or sperm for another couple to have a child.

Either a donor or a surrogate may have no ongoing relationship, or a long term ongoing relationship, in the life of the child; this ideally needs to be worked out and agreed to by all parties before anything is done to create a new life.

 

[BroIgnatius]

be a surrogate mother, sell your eggs or donate sperm?

On one hand, it could be selfless, you want another person to be a parent.
But on the other hand it could be really selfish. Maybe you doing it for other reasons. Or the wannabe parents are selfish.

But maybe they could be christians. Could they? Do infertile couples who are christians do this or would they be more likely to adopt.

Am just wondering as, it seems older or infertile couples seem willing to go through the expense of IVF and have test tube babies these days. Is it ok for christians to consider having a test tube baby?

In Catholic teaching it is it considered a sin to sell one's eggs, donate sperm, be a surrogate mother, in vitro fertilization (IVF), etc.

2376 Techniques that entail the dissociation of husband and wife, by the intrusion of a person other than the couple (donation of sperm or ovum, surrogate uterus), are gravely immoral. These techniques (heterologous artificial insemination and fertilization) infringe the child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage. They betray the spouses' "right to become a father and a mother only through each other."

2377 Techniques involving only the married couple (homologous artificial insemination and fertilization) are perhaps less reprehensible, yet remain morally unacceptable. They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act. The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person. Such a relationship of domination is in itself contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children."

"Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses' union . . . . Only respect for the link between the meanings of the conjugal act and respect for the unity of the human being make possible procreation in conformity with the dignity of the person."

2378 A child is not something owed to one, but is a gift. The "supreme gift of marriage" is a human person. A child may not be considered a piece of property, an idea to which an alleged "right to a child" would lead. In this area, only the child possesses genuine rights: the right "to be the fruit of the specific act of the conjugal love of his parents," and "the right to be respected as a person from the moment of his conception."

2379 The Gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord's Cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others

 

[Blade]

You know GOODBOOK. We know if a man/woman just thinks of another in lust.. they sinned. So to give away something that was meant for someone aka marriage to is not sin?. Sorry but that BABY would be the mother or father of someone else. So feeling sorry or what ever does not make it ok. We just think that since they didnt sleep together but gave the egg or sperm away ..its ok then?

 

[Goodbook]

You know GOODBOOK. We know if a man/woman just thinks of another in lust.. they sinned. So to give away something that was meant for someone aka marriage to is not sin?. Sorry but that BABY would be the mother or father of someone else. So feeling sorry or what ever does not make it ok. We just think that since they didnt sleep together but gave the egg or sperm away ..its ok then?

Sorry am trying to make sense of your post I dont recall ever saying surrogates or donors felt sorry for the infertile couple. I dont know if its done out of lust...but it could be the infertile couples fault for wanting something they cant have or wanting someone elses biological child..

 

[Goodbook]

In Catholic teaching it is it considered a sin to sell one's eggs, donate sperm, be a surrogate mother, in vitro fertilization (IVF), etc.

Thats interesting.
Well personally I dont know any christians who have actually had test tube or surrogate babies. Seems like Padiske was considering it but she was just researching it not actually went through with it.

I was a surrogate father for a young couple with a sterile husband. They had tried to have children right after they were married. The wife was in the military in the same dorm as my wife and I. I was a newly wed as well. I had given the couple there premarital and marital counseling because of how they admired the relationship between my wife and I. When they found out they couldn't have children of their own they went to their pastor. He suggested the story of Tamar and Onon, the use of the Levirate laws in the OT to provide a child but the husband's younger brother was too young. They asked my wife and I if I would be a surrogate father for them with their pastor's and parents agreement. Before I agreed, we prayed for healing 1st and I also sent him to the pastor and elders to be prayed for and anointed according to scripture. They were in a rust to have the first child while the wife was still in the military to cover medical expenses so a few months later I agreed to be their surrogate.

I have a biological son from that. The couple had 4 children they raised but the latter 3 were the biological offspring of the husband's younger brother once he was older.

As a late teen my son found out about me. We have never met but have spoken on the phone.

I personally see no problem with being a surrogate. It was considered giving the gift of a child to a couple that were close christian friends. It was the 3 other children by the younger brother that caused problems. That brother didn't behave as an uncle for the younger 3 but brought them gifts and mistreated the eldest child that was not his child.

Um several problems.
1) the uncle didnt behave as an uncle because he was their biological DAD! If his brother had died, it would have been according to levirate law cos you can only do that if the eldest broher died and his wife was left a widow!

2) you did not behave as a dad or even an uncle to your biological son, no wonder he was mistreated!

3) you were no relation at all to this couple so it wouldnt have been according to levirate law anyway

4) your marital status says celibate? What of your other children?

5)your wife agreed you have relations with another mans wife??? Or was this done artificially?

6) they were in a rush...but they could have waited. But even so, the husband was not dead so in any case that isnt according to levirate law anyway. Why did they not just adopt. And supposedly the younger brother had his own wife and children or was he unmarried? In Tamars case Onan would have married her.

 

[Goodbook]

Ok so this biological son of yours Yahu.
Who you gave up to your christian infertile couple. Since hes the FIRSTBORN does he get privleiges of inheritance?

Not sure why later they had more but..
If you read story of Tamar even the third husband she was promised didnt work so she ended up having children by her father in law (by disgusing herself as harlot) and had twins. So it kinda had to stay in the Judah line.

But in your case I dont see the reasoning. Compeltely different scenario to judah and tamar. Of course Judah was wrong to marry a cannaite woman. And go with prositutes. But obviously, its written in the bible as Pharez was the ancestor of Jesus.

However this doesnt mean that we as christians have this need to procreate and continue a family lineage does it? Unless this couple that were infertile had a dynasty or something. Were they wealthy? Not saying they may have paid you off but why exactly did they NEED to have a child right then. In tamars case, she was a widow...

 

[AWomanNamedDamaris]

I was blessed by the Lord with a naturally conceived, naturally birthed, healthy son when I was 41. I would like to have a second child at 44, God-willing. My husband is adopted, so if we are unable to bear a second child, we will pray for the miracle of adoption.

There are so many deserving children that need loving homes.

I understand why the wealthy do IVF (with their own gametes). There is an innate biological desire to procreate with the one you love. We were created with the desire to be fruitful and multiply.

I don't get the idea of donor sperm and eggs. The baby will only genetically belong to one of the parents. Why not just adopt a child who shares no biological relationship with either parent? The baby will be just as much a blessing to the parents.

As far as clones are concerned, yes they would have souls. A clone would be a real human being who shares the same genetic code as the donor. Twins share the same genetic code and have souls. The donors DNA is injected into an egg and planted into a surrogate mother. The clone is then born and grows at a normal rate and is an individual person, separate from the donor, just as twins are separate individuals. The real concern would be the possibility of using these infant and child clones to harvest organs and tissues for the donor and/or their other family members. Clones would most certainly have souls, but what would be their legal rights? This is what worries me.

 

[Goodbook]

Its a minefield. Cloning reminds me of a scenario presented in this novel by kauzuo Ishigaro what was it called...? It was made into a movie.

 

[Goodbook]

Never Let me Go.