Is it by works or by faith?

[Alithis]

Some of these answers make me truly sad. People want credit for every decision they make; they look for a reward. The only thing we can earn or deserve is spiritual death.

The wages of sin is death! The GIFT of God is eternal life!

If God gives you faith, He won't take it away from you. The faith He gives you changes your whole perspective; it changes your heart.

A gift is given freely out of love and doesn't require the recipient to pay for it. The recipient is grateful and desires to please the giver. We can never pay God for the gift, but because of the gift, He is our friend and we love Him forever.

God begins the good work in us and carries it to completion:

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 2
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 15
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1 John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

All the glory belongs to God.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/do_christians_receive_rewards_in_heaven.shtml

Nice peice..but in every instant you presented only half the picture.

Grace is what Jesus has done for us and made available to us who do not deserve it nor can earn it.
Faith is what we Do in response to truley believing him.

For by grace are you saved THROUGH faith.

It is never grace alone it us never faith alone.
One can know of his grace yet remain disobedient to him ..a disobedient person is one who does not begin to Act on the grace of God. The first act of obedience is to repent from sinning ，get baptised and recieve the Holy Ghost..then go on to follow him living in obedience to the holy spirit sccording to the word of God.
Such a person who professes to believe but does not Do the words instructions will not be saved.he is decieved Jesus said.
A hearer of the word but not a doer.

You quote verses like “by the grace of God i am what i am...“
But what is he who writes it? A man who goes to a building once a week then heads off to work on monday to be like his workmates?hang out with the boys ，have a beer at a bbq..praise his sports team and back to his sunday club on sunday??NO!

NO The writer is A man given to obedience 7 days a week laying down his emtire life in obedience to the great comissiom
A man who is living a life seperated from sin ，preaching the gospel to all people in every situation he comes to whether in times of plenty or severe need，whether comforted or having the skin flogged from his back..whether free or in chains..
The writer is not one who piously says oh dont worry its a grace. But rather one who..,because he knows it is all grace，lays down his life because he truly believes in the grace of God.
He does not trample it underfoot as if it is worthless but dies daily to the flesh that he might walk worthy of such precious grace bestowed upon him.

By grace indeed we Are saved...THROUGH FAITH ...
Unto good works which he has for ordained..that we should walk in them.
...they are love.

Many who say..it is ONLY grace..have not yet repented nor known that grace. For if they truley have..they will be laying down thier lives to maintain that work of grace within them.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

OK I'm Baptist, and I'm very confused on the question of salvation. Here are my questions:

1. Is OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) Biblical?

2. If a Christian refuses to spread the Gospel, are they going to hell?

3. Is it truly by faith, and not works that we are saved?

I pose these questions due to a video I saw online. Supposedly a Korean Artist had a tour of hell with Jesus, and during the tour, she said that Christians who don't share the Gospel, or don't find sharing the Gospel as important will go to hell. Is this true?

I'm sort've scared of hell right now, since I struggle with evangelism. I know I should share the Gospel, but I just have such a hard time with it.

*Sorry If I posted this in the wrong section*

In three of Paul's letters he quotes Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. You see the belief in God or faith came 1st and yes Abraham did indeed have good works to back up his faith but I am astounded that the scriptures also speak of righteous Lot. Now Lot did not do anything noteworthy as a good work and he too is declared righteous. I get to the thesis statement of the gospel of John found in chapter 20
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. If you struggle with this issue read through the entire gospel of John and note how many times he writes of believing. He draws a clear line that your faith has you on one side or the other. If you think about 2 Peter he writes to a specific group, "
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"

The believers are the group Peter writes and he gives them instructions about how to live a Christian life. " But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins."

You see faith is the very 1st thing on the list and once you have it then you ad to it. Virtue is 2nd as the willingness to do the right thing comes before knowledge as your virtue will lead to changing once you have the knowledge of what is wrong. The self control is exercising the virtue based on the knowledge and the perseverance is staying the course based on your faith not wavering. This is godliness and will lead to positive works as brotherly kindness and love are the virtues of good works. These are added to your faith. Many have faith but do not follow through to maturity. In the parable of the sower only the seed which the birds ate was described as taken away less they should believe and be saved. Yet of the other seeds only the good soil came to maturity and that describes your heart. You can choose to add to your faith or not. The Lord is wanting to pour out his spirit into our lives and will do more than we ever imagined if we pursue Him.

 

[Rajni]

Repentance literally means to turn away from something.

It's also interesting to note that repentance, like faith, is also a gift of God, rather than something one induces in and of themselves from scratch. God gives/grants it to people. (2 Timothy 2:25; Acts 11:18)

 

[JoeP222w]

1. Is OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) Biblical?

It ("OSAS") is a really bad nomenclature, but the Perseverance of the Saints is biblical, yes. Because God is the one who saves, and He is the one who perseveres the believer in Jesus Christ. God gets all of the glory.

John 6:37-40 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. (38) For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. (39) And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. (40) For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

2. If a Christian refuses to spread the Gospel, are they going to hell?

A Christian will not refuse to proclaim the gospel, because it is the command of God. A Christian may struggle on how to proclaim the gospel. But if a person makes a life-long refusal to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, they are simply not a Christian.

If you have no concern for the lost, then be assured of this, that you yourself are lost. [Paraphrase CH Spurgeon]

3. Is it truly by faith, and not works that we are saved?

Yes, it is by faith alone. [Ephesians 2:1-10]. Works are a demonstration/evidence of faith in Jesus Christ, not a pre-requisite for salvation.

 

[Alithis]

It's also interesting to note that repentance, like faith, is also a gift of God, rather than something one induces in and of themselves from scratch. God gives/grants it to people. (2 Timothy 2:25; Acts 11:18)

What he Gives..is the oppurtunity to repent.this is graciously given.
If it were an automatic occurance there would be no sinners on the earth.for all would have repented.
Evidence therefore displays it is not so.

Repentance is commanded because the oppurtunity to do so has been graciously provided.

Note the warning to those who do not “obey“ the Gospel.

 

[TheSeabass]

OK I'm Baptist, and I'm very confused on the question of salvation. Here are my questions:

1. Is OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) Biblical?

No. It is a man-made teaching where man gives himself a license to sin and still remain unconditionally saved. Very convenient, huh? It attempts to undermine the bible teaching on conditionally required repentance on part of the Christian when he sins and God's forgiveness when the Christian repents. If OSAS were true where salvation is UNconditonal, then the Christian can UNconditionally remain impenitent while living in his sins and still be saved in those sins.

2. If a Christian refuses to spread the Gospel, are they going to hell?

Yes. It is COMMANDED (not an option or just a good idea) by Christ that Christians are to take the gospel to the world and not doing so is sin, transgression of Christ's law.

3. Is it truly by faith, and not works that we are saved?

Romans 5:1------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies

Since there is just one way to be justified/saved, no alternatives, then faith must be a work.


====


From Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:15-16 what if Christians all disobeyed the command of the great commission and NOT spread the gospel, then what? Christianity would soon die out. So the Christian MUST be engaged in this good work (Ephesians 2:10) if he is to remained saved.

 

[Rajni]

What he Gives..is the oppurtunity to repent.this is graciously given.

I looked for "opportunity" in those verses and couldn't find it. It seems as though it's repentance itself that's granted, which would make sense given that it is He who works the transformation in the individual. I mean, the opportunity is there, as well, but presents itself in the form of repentance itself (at least, going by those verses anyway -- there's always other passages that say something completely different ).

If it were an automatic occurance there would be no sinners on the earth.for all would have repented.
Evidence therefore displays it is not so.

It's not the end yet, evidently.

Repentance is commanded because the oppurtunity to do so has been graciously provided.

Jesus also commanded completely unconscious people to rise. This doesn't presume that they would have been able to do so apart from him granting it to them first.

 

[Alithis]

I looked for "opportunity" in those verses and couldn't find it. It seems as though it's repentance itself that's granted, which would make sense given that it is He who works the transformation in the individual. I mean, the opportunity is there, as well, but presents itself in the form of repentance itself (at least, going by those verses anyway -- there's always other passages that say something completely different ).

It's not the end yet, evidently.

Jesus also commanded completely unconscious people to rise. This doesn't presume that they would have been able to do so apart from him granting it to them first.

Your last example is out of context ..he commands the dead in sin to rise to a judgmentt of damnation. Not repentance.
And the first half of your reply leans towards universalism .

 

[Gabe7587]

No. It is a man-made teaching where man gives himself a license to sin and still remain unconditionally saved. Very convenient, huh? It attempts to undermine the bible teaching on conditionally required repentance on part of the Christian when he sins and God's forgiveness when the Christian repents. If OSAS were true where salvation is UNconditonal, then the Christian can



Yes. It is COMMANDED (not an option or just a good idea) by Christ that Christians are to take the gospel to the world and not doing so is sin, transgression of Christ's law.



Romans 5:1------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies

Since there is just one way to be justified/saved, no alternatives, then faith must be a work.


====


From Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:15-16 what if Christians all disobeyed the command of the great commission and NOT spread the gospel, then what? Christianity would soon die out. So the Christian MUST be engaged in this good work (Ephesians 2:10) if he is to remained saved.

I don't believe OSAS is an opportunity to sin. I just believe that if a person was once saved by God and walked away, then he would still be in God's arms. Hopefully that person will return back to to him. The Holy Spirit is still in them, but they choose not to listen to Him when they walk away. We are sealed with the Spirit.

 

[Rajni]

Your last example is out of context ..he commands the dead in sin to rise to a judgmentt of damnation. Not repentance.

The point is, He gets the credit (Philippians 2:13). He begins the good work in a person, and is faithful to complete it (Philippians 1:6). We don't get any more credit for our transformation on the spiritual level than we would for being raised up like Lazarus or being cured like the blind man on the physical level.

And the first half of your reply leans towards universalism .

Yes, indeed it does.

 

[TheSeabass]

I don't believe OSAS is an opportunity to sin. I just believe that if a person was once saved by God and walked away, then he would still be in God's arms. Hopefully that person will return back to to him. The Holy Spirit is still in them, but they choose not to listen to Him when they walk away. We are sealed with the Spirit.

OSAS does give the Christian the choice to sin as much as he desires and yet still be saved.

Again, OSAS says salvation is UNCONDITIONAL therefore that allows the Christian to UNCONDITIONALLY sin all he cares to and still be saved.

You post "if a person was once saved by God and walked away, then he would still be in God's arms. Hopefully that person will return back to to him. "

The backslider, reprobate that leaves God has no hope of salvation as long as he remains in that reprobate state.

Also, above you said "I don't believe OSAS is an opportunity to sin", but then you say a "person once saved by God and walked away can walked away (presumably to live in sin) then he would still e in God's arms".

So you are giving the Christian the opportunity to sin (walk away from God) and still be saved in his sins (sill in God's arms).

The GROUP called "Christian" is sealed therefore the individual must CONDITIONALLY be in and faithfully remain in this GROUP if he desires to be sealed. If one falls from the group due to unfaithfulness then the group remains sealed but not this individual for he no longer is in this sealed group.

 

[Gabe7587]

OSAS does give the Christian the choice to sin as much as he desires and yet still be saved.

Again, OSAS says salvation is UNCONDITIONAL therefore that allows the Christian to UNCONDITIONALLY sin all he cares to and still be saved.

You post "if a person was once saved by God and walked away, then he would still be in God's arms. Hopefully that person will return back to to him. "

The backslider, reprobate that leaves God has no hope of salvation as long as he remains in that reprobate state.

Also, above you said "I don't believe OSAS is an opportunity to sin", but then you say a "person once saved by God and walked away can walked away (presumably to live in sin) then he would still e in God's arms".

So you are giving the Christian the opportunity to sin (walk away from God) and still be saved in his sins (sill in God's arms).

The GROUP called "Christian" is sealed therefore the individual must CONDITIONALLY be in and faithfully remain in this GROUP if he desires to be sealed. If one falls from the group due to unfaithfulness then the group remains sealed but not this individual for he no longer is in this sealed group.

The reason why a person shouldn't walk away is because of the severe discipline they would endure. We shouldn't take lightly of the Lords discipline.

 

[Rajni]

When it comes to "fire insurance"-based soteriological systems, there's an ancient prayer (I haven't found the equivalent thereof in Christianity yet) by Sufi mystic Rabi’a al-Basri that I think takes some guts to earnestly pray:

"O my Lord,

if I worship you
from fear of hell, burn me in hell.

If I worship you
from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates.

But if I worship you
for yourself alone, grant me then the beauty of your Face." ​

After all, that's what it's really all about, right? Loving God for Himself alone and not merely for pie in the sky by and by?

If one takes away both the whip and the carrot dangling from a stick, what would one's relationship with God be like? Would the works/faith issue even be a question, if pure love for the Divine—for Who He is rather than for what He can do for us—were the active force in one's walk?

Just something to think about.

 

[Tangible]

OK I'm Baptist, and I'm very confused on the question of salvation.

Hi! I was a Baptist for 40 years and I agree that Baptists can be very confusing when it comes to salvation. I wish I had a nickle for every time I heard "Jesus Christ has done absolutely everything necessary for your salvation. All you have to do is ..." LOL.

1. Is OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) Biblical?

No, not really, at least not the way most people understand it. Apostacy is a real thing, sternly warned against in several parts of scripture. It would seem that OSAS would be a very comforting doctrine, but in the end it can cause all kinds of doubt and fear. Briefly, if someone who once confessed Christ, was seen by others as a Christian, and firmly believed that they were justified in Christ eventually falls away and denies Christ altogether, OSAS supporters will say that he was never REALLY saved. This takes away all the comfort and assurance that OSAS supposedly gives by casting doubt on one's own salvation. "I believe that I am saved, but how do I know if I am REALLY saved?"

2. If a Christian refuses to spread the Gospel, are they going to hell?

We all have different jobs to do. For some it is evangelism, for others it is fixing roads or changing diapers. Every vocation gives us an opportunity to show love to our neighbor and serve their needs. God doesn't need anything from us. He can raise children of Abraham from the stones in the ground. But we should all be prepared to give an answer for the hope we have in Jesus Christ, and be able to briefly describe how God has had mercy on us sinners and saves us for Jesus Christ's sake alone apart from works.

3. Is it truly by faith, and not works that we are saved?

Yes. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. The faith that God gives us cannot help but produce good works through us, but these works are a result of our salvation, not the cause. Doing good works is a characteristic of those whom God is saving by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone. But we should never look to the works we do to gauge whether we are saved or not. Good works naturally flow from us and can take many forms. Even the most mundane things done in service to our neighbor are good works if we have faith in Christ alone for our salvation. For assurance of our salvation, though, we only have one place to look - and that is to Jesus Christ and what God has done through him for us and for our salvation.

I'm sort've scared of hell right now, since I struggle with evangelism. I know I should share the Gospel, but I just have such a hard time with it.

Don't worry. We don't have to earn our salvation. It is a free gift from God. God's purpose will not be thwarted if we miss an opportunity to share the Gospel. And it's not totally up to you anyway. One plants, another waters. If you don't know what to say, just invite them to come to church with you. It really is that easy. No one who God is calling to Jesus for salvation will miss out because you didn't say something. The number of those who will be saved cannot be added to or subtracted from because of something you did or didn't do.

 

[Gabe7587]

I'm still struggling between the correct doctrine then. There are so many answers to this question. But I just remembered something from my Bible class workbook. It went something along these lines: " When we come into a relationship with the Father, he adopts us into the family of God, becoming child of God. We may disobey our Father, we may even walk away from Him, but he is still our Father. He is still our Father, even if we walk away, since he adopted us from the world. We don't make the decision to leave God's family, that's God's choice to kick us out, and he said that He would never forsake us. We are sealed with His Spirit, Him, and only Him can remove that seal, and he promised that he would NEVER leave us."

 

[Tangible]

I'm still struggling between the correct doctrine then. There are so many answers to this question. But I just remembered something from my Bible class workbook. It went something along these lines: " When we come into a relationship with the Father, he adopts us into the family of God, becoming child of God. We may disobey our Father, we may even walk away from Him, but he is still our Father. He is still our Father, even if we walk away, since he adopted us from the world. We don't make the decision to leave God's family, that's God's choice to kick us out, and he said that He would never forsake us. We are sealed with His Spirit, Him, and only Him can remove that seal, and he promised that he would NEVER leave us."

You have to remember to distinguish in the scriptures between law and gospel.

God's most severe word of law is that even if we once believed and were saved, if we come to the point where we deny Christ and his work for us, and if we persist in this unbelief until death, we will be condemned to be separated from God for eternity.

But the Gospel says that even if you doubt, even if you despair and curse God, this is still a sin for which Christ died. When you repent, when you turn from unbelief back to belief, your Heavenly Father is waiting for you with open arms and will rejoice in your return.

The joyful news is that we don't choose God, he chooses us and appoints us to bring forth spiritual fruit. He gives us the gift of our baptism, and "when our sins and conscience oppress us, we strengthen ourselves and take comfort and say: Nevertheless I am baptized; but if I am baptized, it is promised me that I shall be saved and have eternal life, both in soul and body."

“So when the devil throws your sins in your face and declares that you deserve death and hell, tell him this: "I admit that I deserve death and hell, what of it? For I know One who suffered and made satisfaction on my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and where He is there I shall be also!”

(Quotes by Martin Luther)

More on Law and Gospel: A Brief Introduction to Law & Gospel

 

[Alithis]

The point is, He gets the credit (Philippians 2:13). He begins the good work in a person, and is faithful to complete it (Philippians 1:6). We don't get any more credit for our transformation on the spiritual level than we would for being raised up like Lazarus or being cured like the blind man on the physical level.


Yes, indeed it does.

Well universaliam opposes the truth of the lord Jesus .it is a lie.

 

[Alithis]

You have to remember to distinguish in the scriptures between law and gospel.

God's most severe word of law is that even if we once believed and were saved, if we come to the point where we deny Christ and his work for us, and if we persist in this unbelief until death, we will be condemned to be separated from God for eternity.

But the Gospel says that even if you doubt, even if you despair and curse God, this is still a sin for which Christ died. When you repent, when you turn from unbelief back to belief, your Heavenly Father is waiting for you with open arms and will rejoice in your return.

The joyful news is that we don't choose God, he chooses us and appoints us to bring forth spiritual fruit. He gives us the gift of our baptism, and "when our sins and conscience oppress us, we strengthen ourselves and take comfort and say: Nevertheless I am baptized; but if I am baptized, it is promised me that I shall be saved and have eternal life, both in soul and body."

“So when the devil throws your sins in your face and declares that you deserve death and hell, tell him this: "I admit that I deserve death and hell, what of it? For I know One who suffered and made satisfaction on my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and where He is there I shall be also!”

(Quotes by Martin Luther)

More on Law and Gospel: A Brief Introduction to Law & Gospel

Martin said many things ..later he said other things..
He is not the authority just another opinion.
The scriptures states that repentance does not include the continuence if action you know to be sin .
John states that one who is born of God CanNot continue in sin and one who does continue in sin does not know God...
Ie.- that person is not being saved..they are being lost.

 

[Tangible]

No one ever claimed Martin Luther had any authority in and of himself, including Dr Luther! The sole authority is the word of God.

I would direct your attention to Romans chapter seven regarding whether or not Christians continue to sin. And the first epistle of St John.

As long as Christians are alive in our natural flesh inherited from our father Adam we will continue to sin. But we have an advocate who stands before the Father interceding on our behalf. If we confess our sins he is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us from unrighteousness.

Philippians 3
Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

 

[Rajni]

Well universaliam opposes the truth of the lord Jesus .it is a lie.

I realize some believe that.