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Is it Biblical for the death penalty to still apply today?

Discussion in 'Congregation-specific Ethics' started by David_AB, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. David_AB

    David_AB Member Supporter

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    There are some OT laws that are supposed to have been replaced by the new covenant but is the death penalty one of them?
     
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  2. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's". Though I am against the death penalty, as are many states across our country, if it is the law then it is the penalty rendered by that state. If you are against it you can vote it out if it comes up. Jesus did not kill any sinner. He forgave them.
     
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It was part of the Noahic Covenant.

    “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.” (Genesis 9:6)

    Paul endorses the civil magistrate to bear the sword. But not Christians. We are vessels of mercy, the magistrate a vessel of wrath.
     
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  4. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus gave the requirement for the executioners.
     
  5. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Rom 13:4
    For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

    That's New Testament.
    When would a SWORD apply to anything less than captial punishment?
     
  6. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    Nonsense.

    The bible is clear, killing is wrong.
     
  7. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Rom 13:4
    For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

    That's New Testament.
    When would a SWORD apply to anything less than captial punishment?

    (Deliberate double-post)
     
  8. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    My understanding of the bible that is simply wrong (sinful) for anybody to kill another person. God alone has the right to initiate or terminate life.

    Therefore the death penalty is wrong and anybody who supports or involved in capital punishment is commiting a sin.
     
  9. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are entitled to your (incorrect) opinion.

    God Himself wiped out whole cultures in the OT - He had the Israelites do the same.

    There are differences in Hebrew words haraq and ratsach, just like there are differences in English words KILL and MURDER.

    I think that to say that a judge or an executioner is COMMITTING A SIN if they are involved in capital punishment is just crazy.
     
  10. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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  11. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    Whatever the bible says on the matter, i don't support capital punishment myself. One reason is because the state don't always get it right and innocent people get executed.
     
  12. JesusYeshuaisLord

    JesusYeshuaisLord Member

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    I tend to want to uphold the commandment "you shall not murder". My thinking is: "who am I to decide or kill someone else?". Ultimately I think this decision belongs to God not me so as a result I am not for the death penalty, which is also why I feel uncomfortable with being part of a jury if I ever have to. Just the idea that someone's life is in your hand is frightening especially if your decision is deadly.
     
  13. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF Supporter

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    "Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." (Romans 13:2-4)

    The sword there is a reference to the death penalty, and this passage has been used for centuries to show that the death penalty is biblical. See, for example, the Belgic Confession #36:

    "We believe that our gracious God, because of the depravity of mankind, hath appointed kings, princes and magistrates, willing that the world should be governed by certain laws and policies; to the end that the dissoluteness of men might be restrained, and all things carried on among them with good order and decency. For this purpose he hath invested the magistracy with the sword, for the punishment of evil-doers, and for the protection of them that do well."

    Edit: I see that someone has already mentioned Romans 13.
     
  14. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Jesus did not abolish Capital Punishment. Jesus took Capital Punishment to the next level. Jesus blows the Holy Spirit on His Apostles and swears to them that any sin they call upon Him to bind from earth, He will bind in heaven. Jesus lips binding a sinner to their sin, is spiritual death Capital Punishment.

    John 20:20
    At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced.
    "Peace be with you," he said again. "As the Father has sent me, so I send you." Then he breathed on them and said: "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men's sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound."

    Jesus Commands His Church that if her hand or foot is her undoing, she is to 'cut it off' and cast it into hell. A fleshly hand cannot be cast into hell. Jesus is talking about the body of His Church. If a member of His Church is pulling the whole body of the Church into hell, Jesus Commands His Apostles to 'cut it (the evildoers) off' and throw it into hell. Thus the Catholic Church has Church Anathema, to protect the Church from those who mean to do her harm.

    90 times in scriptures the term 'cut off', which Jesus uses, means to put to death. Jesus and Moses are in sync with the concept of 'cutting off from the body of people' an evildoer who is pulling the whole body of people into evil doing and thus damnation. Only, where Moses means put to physical death, Jesus means put to spiritual death, evildoers who pull the body of people, toward damnation.

    Leviticus 20 Penalties for Various Sins.
    The LORD said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites: Anyone, whether an Israelite or an alien residing in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech shall be put to death. Let his fellow citizens stone him. I myself will turn against such a man and cut him off from the body of his people: for in giving his offspring to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name."

    Matthew 5:29 Occasions of Impurity.

    If your right eye is your trouble, gouge it out and throw it away! Better you lose part of your body than to have it all cast into Gehenna. Again if your right hand is your trouble, cut it off and throw it away! Better to lose part of your body than to have it all cast into Gehenna."

    Numbers 15:30
    "But anyone who sins defiantly, whether he be a native or and alien, insults the LORD, and shall be cut off from among his people. Since he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken his commandment, he must be cut off. He has only himself to blame."

    The Sabbath-breaker. While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was discovered gathering wood on the sabbath day. Those who caught him at it brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly. But they kept him in custody, for there was no clear decision as to what should be done with him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "This man shall be put to death; let the whole community stone him outside the camp." So the whole community led him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD had commanded Moses.

    Matthew 18:5

    "Whoever welcomes one such child for my sake welcomes me. On the other hand, it would be better for anyone who leads astray one of these little ones who believes in me, to be drown by a millstone around his neck, in the depths of the sea. What terrible things will come on the world through scandal! It is inevitable that scandal should occur. Nonetheless, woe to that man through whom scandal comes! If your hand or foot is your undoing, cut it off and throw it from you! Better to enter life maimed or crippled than be thrown with two hands or feet into endless fire. If your eye is your downfall, gouge it out and cast it from you! Better to enter life with one eye than be thrown with both into fiery Gehenna.

    Leviticus 20:1
    The LORD said to Moses, 'Tell the Israelites: Anyone, whether an Israelite or an alien residing in Israel, who gives any of his offspring to Molech shall be put to death. Let his fellow citizens stone him. I myself will turn against such a man and cut him off from the body of his people; for in giving his offspring to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. .'"


    JOB 27:8
    For what can the impious man expect when he is cut off , when God requires his life?


    Mark 9:40
    Anyone who is not against us is with us. Any man who gives you a drink of water because you belong to Christ will not, I assure you, go without his reward. But it would be better if anyone who leads astray one of these simple believers were to be plunged in the sea with a great millstone fastened around his neck.

    "If your hand is your difficulty, cut it off! Better for you to enter life maimed than to keep both hands and enter Gehenna with its unquenchable fire. If your foot is your undoing, cut it off! Better for you to enter life crippled than to be thrown into Gehenna with both feet. If your eye is your downfall, tear it out! Better you enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to be thrown with both eyes into Gehenna, where 'the worm dies not and the fire is never extingusihed.'


    Luke 17:2

    "Scandals will inevitably arise, but woe to him through whom they come. He would be better off thrown into the sea with a millstone around his neck than giving scandal to one of these little ones."

    Ezekiel 14:13
    Son of man, when a land sins against me by breaking faith, I stretch out my hand against it and break its staff of bread, I let famine loose upon it and cut off form it both man and beast; and even if these three men were in it, Noah, Daniel, and Job, they could only save themselves by their virtue, says the LORD God.


    In the Bible, Cut-off means put to death
    GEN 9:11 GEN 17:14 EXO 4:25 EXO 12:15 EXO 12:19 EXO 30:33
    EXO 30:38 EXO 31:14 LEV 7:20 LEV 7:21 LEV 7:25 LEV 7:27
    LEV 17:4 LEV 17:9 LEV 17:10 LEV 18:29 LEV 19:8 LEV 20:5
    LEV 20:6 LEV 20:17 LEV 20:18 LEV 22:3 LEV 23:29 NUM 4:18
    NUM 9:13 NUM 15:30 NUM 15:31 NUM 19:13 NUM 19:20 JOS 3:13
    JOS 4:7 JDG 21:6 1SA 20:15 2SA 14:16 1KI 9:7 1KI 14:10
    1KI 14:14 1KI 21:21 1CH 17:8 JOB 24:24 JOB 27:8 PSA 37:34
    PSA 37:38 PSA 101:8 PSA 109:13 ISA 9:14 ISA 11:13 ISA 14:22
    ISA 18:5 ISA 48:19 ISA 53:8 JER 9:21 JER 48:25 JER 50:16
    JER 51:13 LAM 2:3 LAM 3:54 EZE 14:13 EZE 21:4 EZE 25:16
    EZE 30:15 EZE 35:7 EZE 37:11 DAN 9:26 NAH 1:12 ZEP 1:3
    ZEP 1:4 WIS 18:23 SIR 40:17

    ANATHEMA

    In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words: Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate , so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment."...
    ...He who dares to despise our decision, let him be stricken with anathema maranatha, i.e. may he be damned at the coming of the Lord, may he have his place with Judas Iscariot, he and his companions.

    Quoted from: New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia - Anathema
    "God's laws to love and protect His people, and America's laws to love and protect her people, are based on the same basic principal. If you harm my people, you will be destroyed. God's Mosaic stoning, God's ten commandments, American capital punishment, Christ's law on "holding sins bound", Karet, cutting off from the body of people, and Catholic Church Anathema, are all designed to love and protect mankind by destroying those who cause mankind harm.

    Please visit: Throwing Stones
     
  15. Of the Kingdom

    Of the Kingdom Active Member

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    As a Christian, I should have no part in applying or suggesting the death penalty to a wrongdoer, no matter how depraved their crime. It is up to the secular government if the death penalty can ever be applied, and for my part I will encourage them to eliminate the death penalty or limit it to truly extreme cases.

    No, I don't believe the Bible teaches that the death penalty can never be used. But the power of the sword is the power to compel, to fine or imprison or otherwise punish. The death penalty is not ruled out, but I think it should be discouraged.

    There is a difference between killing and murdering. To kill deliberately without a compelling, legally accepted reason, is murder. To kill anyone, even by accident or in self defense, is a great evil which we ought to avoid if possible.
     
  16. steve78

    steve78 Newbie

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    There is never an accepted reason to take the life of another human being. Capital Punishment is wrong and sinful.
     
  17. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Another perspective about the Risen Son! Supporter

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    I'd say that within and among the people of God, being defined specifically as followers of Jesus Christ, His Church, there isn't any application of the death penalty, even if we, like Paul, can still refer to the 'death penalty' language of the Old Testament in cases of Church discipline.

    However, in the world at large and in the societies in which we live, it can still be that the Death Penalty may be supported when it expresses some vestiges of God's own decrees of judgement against sin and evil. I'm of the opinion that as long as the Secular Governmental powers are ONLY putting perpetrators to death for criminal actions with which we Christians can agree (with God's Word) as being manifestly sinful, then and only then, in that vain of social justice and in this social context, can we assert that the death penalty is valid today. But, the death penalty can't be asserted or literally applied within the sanctity of the social relations of the Church.

    And as I stated already, that's my opinion. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  18. JCFantasy23

    JCFantasy23 In a Kingdom by the Sea. Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team

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    The death penalty was established biblically after the flood, where men were so wicked and horribly violent with mindless slaughter that God instituted the flood and expressed regret about His creation. With the new laws of the death penalty, this could act as a buffer against the same thing repeating again widespread - More accountability for murder.

    There was more of a deterrent in the old times. Murder and killing were not the same thing, as shown with killing in war and self-defense not being seen as murder. Mosaic law distinguished between unlawful intentional killing (murder) which led to death penalty, and unintentional killing (manslaughter) did not. (Numbers 35:9-34; Deuteronomy 19:1-13; Joshua 20:1-9) There is a separation of judgement from God when it comes to cold-blood and premeditated murder versus in-the-moment, unplanned murder as well depending on the condition of the heart when it came to the judgement of their sins for their personal salvation.

    If the person was falsely accused and found innocent before death, and it was shown the person behind this charge knew that there was doubt or knew of the person's innocence, the one who falsely accused would get the same punishment of death. There had to be two or three witnesses testifying to something this serious, and then the consequences would be considered before giving such severe judgment.

    Fortunately we do not have the laws of Deuteronomy anymore - the death penalty was wide spread for what we could consider small potatoes now.
     
  19. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    In the OT People were stoned for adultery. He who is without sin should cast the first stone.
     
  20. Monksailor

    Monksailor Active Member Supporter

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    Yes, Jesus forgave, BUT only those who repented of their sin and believed in Him. Regarding the woman caught in adultery and the stoning to death which was beginning people ignore the fact that Jesus did NOT say or imply that the punishment of death was wrong or obsolete. ALSO, people quickly forget that after Jesus forgave He COMMANDED her to go and not to repeat that sin again, ever. Incorrigible sinners who insist upon continuing to prey upon their fellow man/woman must be stopped. A God of Love must be a God of justice and justice demands penalty for sin/criminal acts esp the worst like murder and rape and incest. God has delegated (see submitting to governing authority-Ro 13) punishment for criminal acts to be determined, judged, and sentenced by our secular government which we are admonished to support and submit to as Christ our leader did to the Roman government. In Acts 4 we find a couple of connected incidents where someone lied to the Holy Spirit and Peter and the brethren. Both times Peter cursed them to death, literally. Several people here have called the Rock, the beloved of our Lord, a murderer.
     
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