• Do not add comments to posts once the thread has been closed for review. A closed thread means there should not be any further comment. Commenting in closed threads can result in a ban.

Is it bad for a child to believe in Santa Claus?

Status
Not open for further replies.

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
35,278
24,954
Pacific Northwest
✟656,966.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Regardless though, I realize we probably won't agree.

You're right. I can't agree with demonstrable falsehood.

If you want to celebrate christmas, even after knowing and reading what I've shown you regarding it's connection to saturn, the sun god, molech, go for it.

Except it's not. Your claims and arguments are false and aren't substantiated by fact.

Just know, biblically, it's not a good thing.

"Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David. He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a Child. While they were there, the time came for her to deliver her Child. And she gave birth to her firstborn Son and wrapped Him bands of cloth, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.

In that region there were shepherds living in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. Then an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, 'Do not be afraid; for see--I am bringing you good news of great joy for all people: to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is the Messiah, the Lord. This will be a sign for you: you will find a Child wrapped in bands of cloth and lying in a manger.' And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying,

'Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace among those whom he favors!'

When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, 'Let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing that has taken place, which the Lord has made known to us.' So they went with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Child lying in the manter. When they saw this, they made known what had been told to them about this Child; and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds told them. But Mary treasured these words and pondered them in her heart. The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them.
" - Luke 2:4-20

Christ the Lord is born this day, glory be unto God. Peace be to all, and may the world find peace through Him. Jesus Christ, King of kings, Savior, and God, born of Mary, laying in the manger. This holy Feast we celebrate, to the glory of our God.

None of it. It's ripped from paganism, and that alone should deter us.

The Apostles, when condemned by the authorities for preaching Christ said it is better to heed God then men. And my conscience is held captive by the word of God--I shall celebrate the birth of Christ my God on this day. Jesus Christ is Lord.

If you do not wish to celebrate Christ with His Church on this day, then you are free not to. But the Church of Jesus Christ is not persuaded against the worship and honor of Christ by empty rhetoric and falsehood; we will celebrate Jesus with or without your participation.

Jesus is far more important to us than bad arguments.


-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Devin P

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2017
1,264
629
30
Michigan
✟90,679.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You're right. I can't agree with demonstrable falsehood.



Except it's not. Your claims and arguments are false and aren't substantiated by fact.



"Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David. He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a Child. While they were there, the time came for her to deliver her Child. And she gave birth to her firstborn Son and wrapped Him bands of cloth, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.

In that region there were shepherds living in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. Then an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, 'Do not be afraid; for see--I am bringing you good news of great joy for all people: to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is the Messiah, the Lord. This will be a sign for you: you will find a Child wrapped in bands of cloth and lying in a manger.' And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying,

'Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace among those whom he favors!'

When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, 'Let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing that has taken place, which the Lord has made known to us.' So they went with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Child lying in the manter. When they saw this, they made known what had been told to them about this Child; and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds told them. But Mary treasured these words and pondered them in her heart. The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them.
" - Luke 2:4-20

Christ the Lord is born this day, glory be unto God. Peace be to all, and may the world find peace through Him. Jesus Christ, King of kings, Savior, and God, born of Mary, laying in the manger. This holy Feast we celebrate, to the glory of our God.



The Apostles, when condemned by the authorities for preaching Christ said it is better to heed God then men. And my conscience is held captive by the word of God--I shall celebrate the birth of Christ my God on this day. Jesus Christ is Lord.

If you do not wish to celebrate Christ with His Church on this day, then you are free not to. But the Church of Jesus Christ is not persuaded against the worship and honor of Christ by empty rhetoric and falsehood; we will celebrate Jesus with or without your participation.

Jesus is far more important to us than bad arguments.


-CryptoLutheran
Nothing there says He was born on the 25th...

He was 6 months younger than John, which would've put His birth in the fall.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Ygrene Imref
Upvote 0
Christian Counseling
  • Bible-based counseling
  • Available 24/7
  • Cancel Anytime
As a BetterHelp affiliate, we may receive compensation from BetterHelp if you purchase products or services through the links provided.

LoricaLady

YHWH's
Supporter
Jul 27, 2009
18,011
10,487
Ohio
✟868,929.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Sooner or later we are all confronted with a choice, more than once, too. The choice is, do we follow traditions of men which Messiah sternly spoke out against? Or do we follow the actual Word which He always wants us to cherish? Santa is a major, really demonic, deceit and a tradition of men. How can he not be demonic? Doesn't he supposedly have god-like powers? Isn't he nothing but one lie piled on top of another? I mean c'mon.

The Word says not to have lies on our lips or to have any other gods before the Almighty. It's a simple and obvious choice. Santa/lies or the truth/obedience to the Word.

If anyone can show me how Santa is not a major demonic lie, or if anyone can show me where the Bible does not condemn lying, that would make me change my position.
 
Upvote 0

LoricaLady

YHWH's
Supporter
Jul 27, 2009
18,011
10,487
Ohio
✟868,929.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Nothing there says He was born on the 25th...

He was 6 months younger than John, which would've put His birth in the fall.
Yes, I have seen an analysis of the Bible where we can see at what time of year Zechariah was in the Temple when he was told that Elizabeth would have John the Baptist. I'm assuming that as soon as he got home he wanted to do that deed that would lead to the son. We aren't actually told that is so, however.

We know John came 6 months before the Messiah, but we don't know absolutely when John was actually conceived. Abraham and Sarah got the prophecy about Isaac a year before he was born, not 9 months before, so who knows maybe John wasn't conceived until some months after Zechariah's vision.

We don't' even know if Elizabeth was home at that time. She could have been like Mary, off on a trip visiting others.

If Messiah was born in the fall though, many say it would have been at the Feast of Tabernacles. He did say that He came to tabernacle amongst us. But didn't the Jewish men have to be in Jerusalem for that Feast? And it doesn't seem Caesar would offend the populace by having them do tax business at a major holy time. Just wondering and reflecting.
 
Upvote 0

LoricaLady

YHWH's
Supporter
Jul 27, 2009
18,011
10,487
Ohio
✟868,929.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
As for those who keep saying, "Well we teach about St. Nicholas", again I would l say that he sounds like a concerning character. Why are we to assume, based on some scanty, and very ancient, records that he was any kind of a saint? A clergy person who runs around giving gifts to other people's kids and throwing coins in their chimneys, kinda creepy if you ask me. If you see someone acting like that today - passing out gifts to little kiddies and throwing coins in their windows - you should be alarmed, and probably would be. Human nature hasn't changed since the time of "Saint" Nicholas.

I would teach a child to AVOID someone like him, big time.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
35,278
24,954
Pacific Northwest
✟656,966.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Nothing there says He was born on the 25th...

He was 6 months younger than John, which would've put His birth in the fall.

The priestly division of Abijah, like all the priestly division, served twice a year (and on all three of the pilgrim feasts). Had Zechariah been serving in the temple in late Tishrei-early Cheshvan (~early October) then the Lord's conception would have been in the spring, as was commonly believed in the ancient Church (the early fathers postulated that the Lord was either born or conceived on the same day He was crucified, which was commonly believed to be March 25th). John's conception in the fall, the Lord's conception in the spring, brings His birth to late December-early January.

December 25th was chosen because it is nine months after March 25th. This does not negate the Lukan chronology, as Zechariah, of the priestly division of Abijah, would have been serving in the temple in the fall.

Was Jesus actually born on December 25th? It's impossible to say for certain, but it's hardly impossible. But ultimately the date was chosen because of its relation to March 25th.

It had nothing to do with Saturnalia, which again was celebrated between the 17th and 23rd of December. And has no connection with the Dies Natalis Soli Invicti; Christians had been suggesting Christ's birth on December 25th on the basis of what I already have said long before Aurelian established the cult of Sol Invictus. Further, no evidence exists of the Dies Natalis until the 4th century, its earliest mention being in the Philocalian Calendar (354 AD). No mention of the Dies Natalis exists prior to 354 AD, but December 25th as a postulated date of Christ's birth does exist as far back as the early-mid 3rd century in the writings of the early fathers.

If there is any correlation, it is after the fact; as the standardization of Christmas on December 25th is later in the 5th century; perhaps the reason for that standardization was to remove the Dies Natalis from the public consciousness and erode Paganism from the Roman Empire--but it's not why the date was originally chosen in the first place.

Further, your word play of "sun god" to "son of God" only works in English. That word play doesn't exist in either Greek or Latin and as such if you are wanting to use that as some kind of argument it simply doesn't work. In Latin sun is sol and son is filius; in Greek sun is helios and son is uios. So neat wordplay in English, but simply does not work in the major languages of Rome.

Though Christians did, however, come up with their own word play, by referring to the Prophet Malachi's promise that the "sun of justice" would rise with healing in its wings; thereby demonstrating that worship of the sun is false worship, and that true worship belongs to Jesus Christ, the promised "sun of justice". This sort of rhetorical style is common to early Christian apologetical and polemical writing, going back to St. Paul himself to used the altar to the "unknown god" in Athens as a way of pointing to the one true God. By turning Paganism on its head, Christians sought to show that true worship belonged to the true God.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
6

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
35,278
24,954
Pacific Northwest
✟656,966.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
As for those who keep saying, "Well we teach about St. Nicholas", again I would l say that he sounds like a concerning character. Why are we to assume, based on some scanty, and very ancient, records that he was any kind of a saint? A clergy person who runs around giving gifts to other people's kids and throwing coins in their chimneys, kinda creepy if you ask me. If you see someone acting like that today - passing out gifts to little kiddies and throwing coins in their windows - you should be alarmed, and probably would be. Human nature hasn't changed since the time of "Saint" Nicholas.

I would teach a child to AVOID someone like him, big time.

Do you assume every act of kindness has a sinister ulterior motive behind it?

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
35,278
24,954
Pacific Northwest
✟656,966.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
If Messiah was born in the fall though, many say it would have been at the Feast of Tabernacles. He did say that He came to tabernacle amongst us. But didn't the Jewish men have to be in Jerusalem for that Feast? And it doesn't seem Caesar would offend the populace by having them do tax business at a major holy time. Just wondering and reflecting.

That's why a Sukkot birth isn't possible. Joseph would have been required, by Jewish law, to be in Jerusalem during Sukkot.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

LoricaLady

YHWH's
Supporter
Jul 27, 2009
18,011
10,487
Ohio
✟868,929.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Via Crucis Of course I didn't refer to every act of kindness. I referred to a clergyman who is running around giving gifts to other people's children and throwing coins in their homes. We all know we are to teach children not to accept gifts from such characters. We all know that pedophiles often try to ingratiate themselves with children by giving them gifts and treats. If you would trust such a person, that is your business. I would absolutely shield my child from him

Also, of course, he has zero to do with the Messiah. The Messiah doesn't need his, or Santa's help, to teach kindness and love to others. "Saint" Nick and Santa are nothing but hindrances to, and distractions from, His ministry and message.

Now I will leave this string. No one has shown how Santa is anything but a lie and that can't happen because he is a lie. No one has shown where the Bible condones lying, through it certainly condemns it big time.

Bye
 
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,406
59
✟85,190.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
My 7 year old believes in Santa Claus and I was wondering is bad for kids to believe in Santa Claus. I always remind her that the gifts are blessings from God. I thought about telling her the truth but I don't want to break her heart.
Yes! Santa isn't real, when they grow up and realize Santa was a lie, that their trust in adults was violated, they might conclude God isn't real either!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ygrene Imref
Upvote 0
10

Tutorman

Charismatic Episcopalian
Jun 20, 2017
1,638
1,349
51
california
✟95,746.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
My 7 year old believes in Santa Claus and I was wondering is bad for kids to believe in Santa Claus. I always remind her that the gifts are blessings from God. I thought about telling her the truth but I don't want to break her heart.

Well you seen this thread now and many of the humbugs here who want to take a child's innocence away because they have outlandish ideas. I will always believe i Santa Claus no matter how old I get, let your daughter have fun now at because as she gets older and becomes old like me Christmas will stink.
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,917
Vancouver
✟139,996.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Well you seen this thread now and many of the humbugs here who want to take a child's innocence away because they have outlandish ideas. I will always believe i Santa Claus no matter how old I get, let your daughter have fun now at because as she gets older and becomes old like me Christmas will stink.
LOL.
Christmas is a lot of fun for almost all children. A really magical time.
Us adults who are not having fun anymore need to learn how to pull back from all the excesses of keeping up with the Joneses in building our tinsel wonderlands.

That is not an easy thing, to be sure. Excessive expectations run high, and are fueled by the engines of commercialism to the point where everything in their path tends to get bulldozed down.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: Ygrene Imref
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,917
Vancouver
✟139,996.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
I think we have people defining terms differently, creating confusion. Some people use 'Santa Claus' to refer to St. Nicholas. Others see Santa Claus as a purely mythical figure, different from St. Nicholas.

Is anyone opposed to teaching church history to children?
Back when I was in school, which was a Catholic school, the origins of all the Christian traditions were explored. In the public schools I attended later, it was all fairly common knowledge of how the way we do things at Christmas developed over the years, and how they differed from country to country.
There was never any secret conspiracy to dissuade kids from growing out of magical thinking. Santa Claus was always mentioned by adults with a twinkle in the eye and a wink. As soon as kids were able to read the social signs, they were able to understand well enough what kinds of ideas that they were dealing with.
It was never that big of a deal because it was generally understood that kids were more than capable of figuring things out on their own. As soon as kids entered grade school and their classmates started asking each other if they still believed in Santa Claus, most kids were able to take the hint and start mentioning Santa with the same wink and twinkle in their eye that grown-ups always used.
Looking back, we weren't even all that sophisticated compared to the kids growing up now. Kids growing up today and stumbling across Beaver on TV are incredulous that kids back then were that dumb, but in a lot of ways we were that dumb.
And yet we were able to figure out Santa Claus on our own even back then.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,510
4,389
61
Southern California
✟40,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Stay on topic? The OP asks if it is good to teach children about Santa. Obviously the concerns would be first that he is a lie, and 2nd that he detracts from the Savior. That is totally on topic. What are you saying? Don't talk about the Savior? Don't talk about how Santa is NOT real, that he does NOT "live forever" as the letter your quoted says?
You obviously don't get it, and aren't going to get it. Be at peace. Merry Christmas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM2b
Upvote 0
15

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,510
4,389
61
Southern California
✟40,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
If people equate Santa Claus with Satan
Some people equate goats with Satan. Should they avoid all goats milk and cheeses? And what is more important, should we support them in their silliness?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM2b
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,917
Vancouver
✟139,996.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Some people equate goats with Satan. Should they avoid all goats milk and cheeses? And what is more important, should we support them in their silliness?
I haven't had much experience with goats. The scapegoats plays an important part of Biblical ritual in the OT, and even Jesus takes on aspects of this ritual, if I am not mistaken, so the association of goats and the Devil likely is not purely based in evil.
It would be interesting to explore the relationship that goats and the devil have a little bit more. In European mythology, goat-men satyrs are depicted as rather sexually lecherous.
Maybe if I knew more about goats, I would understand more how this association came to be.
Now the association between Santa and Satan strikes me as being particularly bizarre, and a rather modern permutation in Christian thought. I was well into adulthood before I heard even one person mention anything like this, although I do remember JW's not wanting to celebrate Christmas for whatever reason.
To each his own I guess, but all I can say is that my experience of Santa, and the experience of anyone that I have ever knew, can in no way be described as a Satanic one.
Kind, cherubic, jolly, generous, and all of the adjectives we generally use to describe Santa have never been used to describe Satan.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,510
4,389
61
Southern California
✟40,935.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Now the association between Santa and Satan strikes me as being particularly bizarre, and a rather modern permutation in Christian thought. I was well into adulthood before I heard even one person mention anything like this, although I do remember JW's not wanting to celebrate Christmas for whatever reason.
To each his own I guess, but all I can say is that my experience of Santa, and the experience of anyone that I have ever knew, can in no way be described as a Satanic one.
My first experience with the "Santa is Satan" crowd was at a girlfriend's fundamentalist church, where the pastor literally used as evidence that Satan and Santa use the same letters. I remarked to the pastor afterwards that God spelled backwards was dog. He just gave me a confused look, obviously not getting the connection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JAM2b
Upvote 0

LinkH

Regular Member
Jun 19, 2006
8,602
669
✟36,323.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Back when I was in school, which was a Catholic school, the origins of all the Christian traditions were explored. In the public schools I attended later, it was all fairly common knowledge of how the way we do things at Christmas developed over the years, and how they differed from country to country.
There was never any secret conspiracy to dissuade kids from growing out of magical thinking. Santa Claus was always mentioned by adults with a twinkle in the eye and a wink. As soon as kids were able to read the social signs, they were able to understand well enough what kinds of ideas that they were dealing with.
It was never that big of a deal because it was generally understood that kids were more than capable of figuring things out on their own. As soon as kids entered grade school and their classmates started asking each other if they still believed in Santa Claus, most kids were able to take the hint and start mentioning Santa with the same wink and twinkle in their eye that grown-ups always used.
Looking back, we weren't even all that sophisticated compared to the kids growing up now. Kids growing up today and stumbling across Beaver on TV are incredulous that kids back then were that dumb, but in a lot of ways we were that dumb.
And yet we were able to figure out Santa Claus on our own even back then.

When I was a kid it took the kids until they got to a certain age to figure out their parents had been lying to them, too.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ygrene Imref
Upvote 0
19

JAM2b

Newbie
Sep 20, 2014
1,822
1,909
✟85,276.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
This was a simple question from a mom wanting advice. What she got was an in depth debate on Christmas, rather than direct support and encouragement for her. This is post #100.

It's one thing to hear a variety of different viewpoints, but did it need to get that deep?

To the OP, I suggest this Scripture. In talking about days, it is in reference to holidays or feasts. When talking about meat, it is about eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols. In a nutshell, it says don't worry about it. Follow your own conscience and be thankful to God. It is also a correction for those who were being hard on other followers for doing as they wish in regard to special days or feasts.

Rom 14:3-Rom 14:7 NIV The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.