Is it approval in God's sight to buy and sell in the Church after the sunday servicer

Alicia Schout

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My brothers and sisters, I don't believe every sacrifice we make is acceptable in God's sight.
I disagree that the Church that I attend does have selling and buying food stuff after the service. Jesus said his house should be called a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves.
So my Church wants to have an fundraising event in the Church on Sunday after the service.
This all have to do with raising funds for the Church. But do the God we serve and love accept this practice? How can I quote scriptures to point out that what this Church is doing is not acceptable in God's sight?
Remember Jesus told Martha when she asked Jesus to tell Mary to help her in the kitchen that few is needed. Mary is doing the best thing. (Mary was listening to Jesus'story, Martha was busy in the kitchen)
Caïn's offer was not acceptable to God, but Abel's one was acceptable.
So I believe we should not throw away God's command to keep the sabbath holy,
just to raise funds for the Church by selling and buying on the sundays or saturdays. The day we kept as the Lord's day. I mean on the day we worship the Lord.
Please help me to stand up for what I believe, is God's will for me to do.
I thank you for your input based on the scriptures.
 

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I don't think there is anything wrong with fundraisers for the church - but I see your point and concern. It's important to pay attention to all scripture and live it seriously. I took den of thieves to mean that the church was turned into a place of profit instead of worship, and was used under the guise of leading people to God but instead was actually used to make money and con. Having a fundraiser at your church is not necessarily the same thing as was Jesus was angry about - since I don't go to your church and see the fundraiser myself I can't say for sure, but if it is a typical fundraiser for a well-balanced church, I don't think God would have a problem with it.
 
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GandalfTheWise

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In Jesus' day, many people coming to the temple came from far away and needed to buy animals for sacrifice. Those selling animals did so at exorbitant prices and made a profit off of people who had to buy an animal. This was probably done with the permission of those in charge of the temple (who maybe made money off of this as well). One of the first things any visitor to the temple would see was this selling of animals instead of worship or prayer. This is what Jesus denounced as turning a place of prayer into a den of thieves.

I've been in a number of churches that have had fund raisers of various types. These were often more of a social event where people had fun hanging out together than an economic one. I really don't have any particular Bible verses I am aware of to condemn this practice unless it is getting out of hand in some way and causing people to think badly of the church.
 
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I have also heard (years ago, and I can't vouch for the source, so don't know if it's true or if we can know without tracking it down) ... but I was told the priests would often examine animals brought for sacrifice and declare them "blemished" which forced the people to have to buy new animals in the temple. And also that the money-changers made money off the people by charging a higher amount to convert their money to the kind used in the temple. I was led to believe it was a huge racket, and the religious folks were involved too, taking more that would have been right from people who were just trying to meet their obligations.
 
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paul1149

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So my Church wants to have an fundraising event in the Church on Sunday after the service.
I personally don't think this is the best way for a church to raise funds. People should believe in what the church is doing and should contribute according to what's on their heart. 2Corinthians 9 talks about that with regard to collecting money for the persecuted saints in Judea. My feeling is that when the church gets involved with ancillary activities to raise money (bingo comes to mind), it can get mired down in the natural and lose spiritual power.

But I don't know that there's a hard and fast line. Today in many churches when a service is over, it's over, and the space can be repurposed. This is much like it was in the earliest days, when the church met primarily in houses. But then, your church may have a dedicated sanctuary, and may be open to prayer at any hour, so I don't know.

All told, I probably wouldn't consider this one event a hanging offense. But if it were a trend, or if it reflected an attitude in leadership that I found disturbing, I would find that a problem.
 
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Alicia Schout

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I personally don't think this is the best way for a church to raise funds. People should believe in what the church is doing and should contribute according to what's on their heart. 2Corinthians 9 talks about that with regard to collecting money for the persecuted saints in Judea. My feeling is that when the church gets involved with ancillary activities to raise money (bingo comes to mind), it can get mired down in the natural and lose spiritual power.

But I don't know that there's a hard and fast line. Today in many churches when a service is over, it's over, and the space can be repurposed. This is much like it was in the earliest days, when the church met primarily in houses. But then, your church may have a dedicated sanctuary, and may be open to prayer at any hour, so I don't know.

All told, I probably wouldn't consider this one event a hanging offense. But if it were a trend, or if it reflected an attitude in leadership that I found disturbing, I would find that a problem.
Thanks for your answer. I do believe and act on my believe that I based on His word.
I do pay my monthly contribution and weekly collection as mentioned in 2 Corinthians chapter 9.
Also I freely donate to my church and also support her fundraising activities on other days during the week, but not after the Sunday service. The Sunday worship or Saturday worship (for example the Adventists) is supposed to be Holy. If I have a business I won't be selling or buying on Sunday. So why should there be a buying and selling foodstuff event on Sunday?
Some members of the church are not committed to give regularly to the church.
Some has money to buy food (getting something in return) but not for collection, donation or contribution. If the leaders, the minister or stewards cannot discipline its members to be faithful in also giving for the work of the Lord, but accepting foodstuff to be sold as a way of giving for the work of the Lord, I don't believe this is pleasing to the Lord. Why was the Lord please with Abel's sacrifice and not that of Caïn?
 
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Francis Drake

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Why was the Lord please with Abel's sacrifice and not that of Caïn?

The respective sacrifices of Abel and Cain have nothing to do with what happens on your church Sundays Alicia. However, correctly understanding that story is very significant to all believers.

The explanation goes back to the Garden Of Eden where we see the first blood sacrifice being made, and the first deliverance by blood, and the first lessons of redemption that would travel down the generations.

God had given all the trees in the garden, including the Tree of Life, as food for Adam and Eve, but He warned Adam if he ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good or Evil, he would die.

In the original Hebrew writing, God's warning actually contains mention of a double death, and is sometimes translated as "In dying you shall die".
I believe the double death represents Adam's spiritual death, followed by his physical death.
Sadly Adam didn't heed the warning.

After listening to Satan's temptation, and eating of the Tree of knowledge, their foolish choice brought instant impact, and they both in that moment became spiritually dead.

They were now cut off from God.
Their light had gone out.
Satan's offer was that they could be like God, knowing good and evil.
That simply meant they would become the Lords of creation instead of God. They would become the arbiters of what was good or evil, rather than being led by God's Holy Spirit.

Their choice meant they had now dispensed with God.
Under the guidance of Satan they had declared independence on planet earth.
Instead of being in spiritual union with God, they had been offered, and accepted, intellectual knowledge as master.
By their own hands they died spiritually when they reached out for the forbidden fruit.

Their reaction was to hide themselves.
But the Lord came looking, calling for them, and a very frightened Adam came forth.

I believe Adam was frightened because of God's previously spoken judgement, "in dying you shall die!"
Adam had already experienced spiritual death and fully expected the judgement of physical death to follow.
Quite rightly the Lord rebuked them both and gave them his verdict, followed by something extremely important. Having so clearly rejected God, they should have been put to death, and I believe that God came forth with the implement to bring that death upon them.

But what do we read, "and the Lord made them coats of skin".
That sounds thoughtful of the Lord, I wonder whether it was nice fleece cloaks, or a leather jackets?
Here's another clue
Rev13v8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world..

Of course we know that Jesus, despite being slain thousands of years later at Calvary, he is prophetically the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the earth.

So back to Adam. The Lord should have killed him, but instead, he turns around and lays hold of a full grown lamb, slits its throat so that the blood gushes out all over the place, he then proceeds to tear the skin off the back of the animal and places the blood soaked hide around the shoulders of a terrified Adam and Eve.

For the very first time since creation, they had just seen death, their own death meted out on an innocent lamb, a substitute for themselves, and a prophetic representation of what the Lord would do for them and all mankind many years later.

The reason that Abel's sacrifice was acceptable is because it was a continuation of the blood covenant.
Cain refused to offer a blood sacrifice and that is why his offering was rejected.

We can only come before God because of the final blood sacrifice of Jesus that was first demonstrated in Eden.
 
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Alicia Schout

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The respective sacrifices of Abel and Cain have nothing to do with what happens on your church Sundays Alicia. However, correctly understanding that story is very significant to all believers.

The explanation goes back to the Garden Of Eden where we see the first blood sacrifice being made, and the first deliverance by blood, and the first lessons of redemption that would travel down the generations.

God had given all the trees in the garden, including the Tree of Life, as food for Adam and Eve, but He warned Adam if he ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good or Evil, he would die.

In the original Hebrew writing, God's warning actually contains mention of a double death, and is sometimes translated as "In dying you shall die".
I believe the double death represents Adam's spiritual death, followed by his physical death.
Sadly Adam didn't heed the warning.

After listening to Satan's temptation, and eating of the Tree of knowledge, their foolish choice brought instant impact, and they both in that moment became spiritually dead.

They were now cut off from God.
Their light had gone out.
Satan's offer was that they could be like God, knowing good and evil.
That simply meant they would become the Lords of creation instead of God. They would become the arbiters of what was good or evil, rather than being led by God's Holy Spirit.

Their choice meant they had now dispensed with God.
Under the guidance of Satan they had declared independence on planet earth.
Instead of being in spiritual union with God, they had been offered, and accepted, intellectual knowledge as master.
By their own hands they died spiritually when they reached out for the forbidden fruit.

Their reaction was to hide themselves.
But the Lord came looking, calling for them, and a very frightened Adam came forth.

I believe Adam was frightened because of God's previously spoken judgement, "in dying you shall die!"
Adam had already experienced spiritual death and fully expected the judgement of physical death to follow.
Quite rightly the Lord rebuked them both and gave them his verdict, followed by something extremely important. Having so clearly rejected God, they should have been put to death, and I believe that God came forth with the implement to bring that death upon them.

But what do we read, "and the Lord made them coats of skin".
That sounds thoughtful of the Lord, I wonder whether it was nice fleece cloaks, or a leather jackets?
Here's another clue
Rev13v8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world..

Of course we know that Jesus, despite being slain thousands of years later at Calvary, he is prophetically the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the earth.

So back to Adam. The Lord should have killed him, but instead, he turns around and lays hold of a full grown lamb, slits its throat so that the blood gushes out all over the place, he then proceeds to tear the skin off the back of the animal and places the blood soaked hide around the shoulders of a terrified Adam and Eve.

For the very first time since creation, they had just seen death, their own death meted out on an innocent lamb, a substitute for themselves, and a prophetic representation of what the Lord would do for them and all mankind many years later.

The reason that Abel's sacrifice was acceptable is because it was a continuation of the blood covenant.
Cain refused to offer a blood sacrifice and that is why his offering was rejected.

We can only come before God because of the final blood sacrifice of Jesus that was first demonstrated in Eden.
The point I am trying to make is that not everything we do for God is acceptable in His sight. Many times we are doing things according to the flesh and in our own way and not led by the Spirit. What kind of sacrifice to the Lord require of us?
 
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Francis Drake

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I don't think it's right to have a marketplace in a church entrance. It's offensive because it directly contrasts God and mammon.
Lets try this about face, how about having an evangelistic outreach stall in a marketplace.

Would that be offensive to God, or offensive to the other stall holders?
 
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paul1149

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The point I am trying to make is that not everything we do for God is acceptable in His sight. Many times we are doing things according to the flesh and in our own way and not led by the Spirit
This is a very valid point.
If I have a business I won't be selling or buying on Sunday. So why should there be a buying and selling foodstuff event on Sunday?
I'm reminded of Paul writing in Colossians,
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. -Col 2:16-17​
In most churches you are going to find differences of opinion on things like this. And that is all the more true if the church is taking in new people. It probably would be wise for the pastor to avoid offense as much as possible, but without getting into bondage about it. If you haven't already, it might be a good idea to let him know how you feel, because this seems to be a strong issue to you. Chances are he's thought it through and might be able to ease the matter somewhat, or at least clarify where you stand in relation to his thinking. Then you can take it from there.
 
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Francis Drake

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Until the mid 80s, trading on Sundays was largely illegal here in the UK. That meant most shops, supermarkets, book shops, hardware store, etc were closed.
I am not sure of the exact nature of the rules, but small local shops seemed to be exempt.
The idiocy of the law however meant that you could buy a newspaper on Sunday, but not a bible because it was illegal to sell books on Sundays.

Then the idea of changing the law to permit 7 days a week trade was mooted by the government causing immediate uproar amongst the church traditionalists.

A group called "Keep Sunday Special" did sterling work orchestrating various campaigns and protests (peaceful of course). Among many, my church included it in their prayer meetings and prayer letter circulars.

To be honest, I found the whole thing rather hypocritical .
Firstly, Sunday has never been God's Sabbath despite church tradition.
Secondly, church members who shouted loudest could often be seen on their way to church stopping to buy whatever at the small general store along the road!

Needless to say, the campaign did not work and the UK now buys and sells on Sundays.
The decline of Godliness in the UK has far more to do with the general apostasy of church leadership rather than trading on Sundays.
 
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Where I grew up we had "Sunday blue laws". Drugstores and grocery stores were open on Sunday, but not general merchandise stores. You could buy food and medicine, but nothing else. My mother felt it was hypocritical because you couldn't buy a pair of hose to wear to Church, but that never impressed me. Where I live now, alcohol isn't sold on Sunday in some places.

I think the problem is in enforcing religious law on non-religious persons.

Someone recently described to me a Church where it was central to the village market, where people would buy foodstuffs, etc. On days when the weather was bad, they allowed the sellers to come into the Church to sell. At first I was a little scandalized. Then after thinking about it, I realized that if the Church was offering the only shelter available during bad weather, allowing people to buy their daily necessities, AFTER the service, then it could be seen as an act of compassion to the people.

That is a very different scenario from basically running a racket to rob people who were required to make certain sacrifices, etc. at the temple as part of their religious obligation.

Everything should be looked at in context.

If the people refuse to support the Church without receiving physical goods, or can't be bothered to do it on another day, then that isn't good. (But it involves individual hearts, so we can't really judge that fully.) On the other hand, if people want to support the Church, but only have enough money for food, then allowing them to buy food from the Church as a way to support the Church gives them that dignity and the ability to contribute. And if we are talking people with transportation or other issues, such that they can only come on a Sunday, then it could be seen as meeting them in their distresss.

I can appreciate zeal for the house of the Lord. We just have to be careful that the zeal doesn't lead us to approach things too legalistically. Just as we ought not simply approach things too permissively. I don't know your local situation, at all, so I'm not judging it. Just tossing out some considerations.

It's probably a good idea to discuss your concerns with the pastor.
 
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Alicia Schout

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Lets try this about face, how about having an evangelistic outreach stall in a marketplace.

Would that be offensive to God, or offensive to the other stall holders?

We should not miss the point. Do God delight in sacrifice of selling and buying food after the Chuch service, as a mean of contribution or offering for His work? ejuserfWDo wE
 
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Alicia Schout

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Where I grew up we had "Sunday blue laws". Drugstores and grocery stores were open on Sunday, but not general merchandise stores. You could buy food and medicine, but nothing else. My mother felt it was hypocritical because you couldn't buy a pair of hose to wear to Church, but that never impressed me. Where I live now, alcohol isn't sold on Sunday in some places.

I think the problem is in enforcing religious law on non-religious persons.

Someone recently described to me a Church where it was central to the village market, where people would buy foodstuffs, etc. On days when the weather was bad, they allowed the sellers to come into the Church to sell. At first I was a little scandalized. Then after thinking about it, I realized that if the Church was offering the only shelter available during bad weather, allowing people to buy their daily necessities, AFTER the service, then it could be seen as an act of compassion to the people.

That is a very different scenario from basically running a racket to rob people who were required to make certain sacrifices, etc. at the temple as part of their religious obligation.

Everything should be looked at in context.

If the people refuse to support the Church without receiving physical goods, or can't be bothered to do it on another day, then that isn't good. (But it involves individual hearts, so we can't really judge that fully.) On the other hand, if people want to support the Church, but only have enough money for food, then allowing them to buy food from the Church as a way to support the Church gives them that dignity and the ability to contribute. And if we are talking people with transportation or other issues, such that they can only come on a Sunday, then it could be seen as meeting them in their distresss.

I can appreciate zeal for the house of the Lord. We just have to be careful that the zeal doesn't lead us to approach things too legalistically. Just as we ought not simply approach things too permissively. I don't know your local situation, at all, so I'm not judging it. Just tossing out some considerations.

It's probably a good idea to discuss your concerns with the pastor.

I agree with what you've pointed out. However, I am a bit disturbed about this matter. It could be that the Lord is causing me to be disturbed, so that changes could take place. Our new reverend was in the beginning not for this buying and selling foodstuff after the Church service. But sometimes we does let our believe be subjected through the lack of funds/money for the Church. But what I see as faith is when we hold on to our believe despite of the loss we are going to face. Then our God shows up and let us see what He can do. His Kingdom come! He turn our loss into gain, but we must trust Him that He will provide for us despite the circumstance and our loss(es). We should loose to gain. If we suffer for a little while He will restore unto us and we will be more than a conqueror through the cross of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Isn't God who is able to supply all our need in accordance to His riches? Faith is doing things in God's way despite oppositions and losses.

What kind of sacrifice is pleasing in the sight of the Lord? Psalm 66:13 says:
I will pay the Lord my vows. God have already provided for His people.
God does make out of little much. What little we have to give to him, we should
give to Him, because all we have is from Him and belongs to Him.

Where there is a will, God makes a way. So what kind of offerings and sacrifices God wants us to bring during and after the Church service?
 
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I agree with what you've pointed out. However, I am a bit disturbed about this matter. It could be that the Lord is causing me to be disturbed, so that changes could take place. Our new reverend was in the beginning not for this buying and selling foodstuff after the Church service. But sometimes we does let our believe be subjected through the lack of funds/money for the Church. But what I see as faith is when we hold on to our believe despite of the loss we are going to face. Then our God shows up and let us see what He can do. His Kingdom come! He turn our loss into gain, but we must trust Him that He will provide for us despite the circumstance and our loss(es). We should loose to gain. If we suffer for a little while He will restore unto us and we will be more than a conqueror through the cross of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Isn't God who is able to supply all our need in accordance to His riches? Faith is doing things in God's way despite oppositions and losses.

What kind of sacrifice is pleasing in the sight of the Lord? Psalm 66:13 says:
I will pay the Lord my vows. God have already provided for His people.
God does make out of little much. What little we have to give to him, we should
give to Him, because all we have is from Him and belongs to Him.

Where there is a will, God makes a way. So what kind of offerings and sacrifices God wants us to bring during and after the Church service?

Well, like I said, I can't judge the situation or the hearts. That's why I gave examples of how it can go both ways ... it depends, and needs to be looked st in context.

The fact that your pastor was opposed, and yet it happened anyway, can be a red flag. Maybe he was made aware of situations that meant it really was for the benefit of the people in a godly way. Or maybe he had to bow under pressure of the wrong kind. I don't know.

We really can't say here on a forum. If it makes you feel better to discuss it, then that's one of the great things about online interaction. I'm glad if it can help you in what you're feeling, or in thinking how to proceed. But we can't know if it's wrong or right in this situation. It could be either.

If it were me, I'd talk to the pastor. Maybe that will make things clearer, whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. But I'm not trying to say whether you are wrong or right, because I don't know. I just know it can be either, in this case.

God be with you.
 
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The money changers at the Temple were making big profits on a captive audience of the religiously obligated, on Temple ground.

Fundraisers are probably best kept for days other than Sunday. But, a Sunday fundraiser is nothing like what Jesus was flipping tables for.

I object to churches that sell coffee on Sunday. Even if they're not making a profit, they're intimidating profit enterprises. And, their expensive coffee prevents some people from comfortable fellowship.
 
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I personally think that a lot of fuss is being made about nothing.
The early church met from house to house and not in flashy church buildings.

Before we worry about buying and selling goods in that building, maybe we should address some of the non Christian practices and pagan traditions the church indulges in.
The fertility goddess Ishtar and the god Saturnalia, along with other demonic powers are celebrated without anyone questioning their true meanings. Names might be changed, but the demons behind them still get entry passes to church at these events in their honour
 
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I personally think that a lot of fuss is being made about nothing.
The early church met from house to house and not in flashy church buildings.

Before we worry about buying and selling goods in that building, maybe we should address some of the non Christian practices and pagan traditions the church indulges in.
The fertility goddess Ishtar and the god Saturnalia, along with other demonic powers are celebrated without anyone questioning their true meanings. Names might be changed, but the demons behind them still get entry passes to church at these events in their honour

I don't believe I am making any fuss about this matter. However, I am concerned about doing what is acceptable in God's sight. I agree I don't have to worry about this matter. God will give answer by blessing and prospering that which is acceptable in His sight.
We know from the early Church that some are serving two masters in the Church.
There are wheat and tares. Jesus will separate the wheat from the tares at His second return. The darker it becomes, the more the Light will shine.
Those who endures to the end shall be saved. God bless you.
 
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