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Featured Is it accurate that God's chosen is now replaced by the Christian church?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Minister Yolandaspiritled, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Replacement Theology is a toxic doctrine which most churches have eshewed. It is the manure upon which Christian anti-Semitism grows. It is not just wrong, it is a doctrine that has led to great evil in church history.

    In Genesis 17, God creates an EVERLASTING covenant with Abraham and his descendants through Isaac, promising them the land of Canaan as an EVERLASTING possession. In Romans 9:4, Paul states that the Jews have the covenants -- PRESENT TENSE. In Romans 11:29 he says that the gifts and callings of the Jews are irrevocable. In Romans 11:29 he says unequivocally that in terms of election, they are loved for the sake of the Patriarchs.

    There is a verse which speaks of believers being part of the commonwealth of Israel. This does not refer to Israel. It refers to Gentiles living in the promised land, as when Romans lived in Judea.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    It is pretty old according to Romans 2 and Romans 9 "he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly"..

    However it does have " a new name".


    Why would you say that?

    We have many allies on the planet - why would we abandon one single one of them simply because the saints in all ages have been those who hear and obey God regardless of skin color and nationality?
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Even though the Church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10), the Church does not "replace" Israel, because Gentiles in the Church are grafted in by God to become only parts of an already-existing Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, John 10:16), which includes the Jews in the Church (Romans 11:1).

    That is, all Jews in the Church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all Gentiles in the Church have been grafted by God into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted by God into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire Church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the Church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of Gentile Christians being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile Christian can pray and ask God which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into by God, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

    Also, all those in the Church, whether Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have been made spiritually-circumcised Jews by God if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).
     
  4. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That echoes the apostle Paul in the Bible.

    For all genetic Jews are part of genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-5). But being part of the true, spiritual Israel, the true, spiritual seed of Abraham, the promised seed, is not based on genetics (Romans 9:6-24), but on God's election (Romans 9:11), which includes both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

    All Jewish and Gentile Christians are part of the true Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 11:17,24, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 10:16), the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:28-29, Romans 4:16-17), the promised seed, just as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28). And so all Jewish and Gentile Christians are heirs of all of the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Romans 15:27).

    In Romans 9:8, by "the children of the flesh", the apostle Paul means genetic Jews, who are the genetic children of Abraham (Romans 11:1, Acts 13:26, John 8:37). And by "the children of God"/"the children of the promise", Paul means the elect, both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24, Galatians 4:28). Romans 9:6-8 means that not all Jews are elect (John 8:37-47, John 10:26), and that some Gentiles are elect (Romans 9:24, John 10:16, John 11:52). Only a remnant of genetic Israel is elect (Romans 9:27), just as only a remnant of humanity in general is elect (chosen) (Matthew 22:14, Matthew 7:14).
     
  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Are you thinking of the following verse?

    Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Note that this cannot mean that there are no Christians who are Jews or Gentiles in any sense, for Christians remain either genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b). Similarly, Galatians 3:28 does not mean that there are no Christians who are males or females, for we are still males or females with regard to our genitals, and with regard to other matters (1 Timothy 2:11-12; 1 Corinthians 14:34-37; 1 Corinthians 11:4-16; 1 Peter 3:7a).

    So Galatians 3:28 can only mean that there is no distinction between Jewish and Gentile Christians, or between male and female Christians, with regard to them being "one in Christ" (Galatians 3:28b), in the sense of them being one body in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 4:4-6), without distinction with regard to their salvation (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 Peter 3:7b).
     
  6. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Why was the nation of Israel chosen?
     
  7. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Because God loved Abraham.

    "in terms of election, they are beloved for the sake of the Patriarchs." Romans 11:28
     
  8. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    What? So Abraham was the only one God loved?
     
  9. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Read the verse I quoted.
     
  10. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    I read it, my question remains. Was Abraham the only one that God loved?
     
  11. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Yahweh chose Him, and He was the only one out of all the world's population that Yahweh chose as written.

     
  12. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Yahweh does whatever HE Pleases.

    Study Bible
    Casting out the Nations
    …6For you are a people holy unto the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be as a people for His prized possession, above all peoples on the face of the earth. 7The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. 8But because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your fathers, He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.…Berean Study Bible
     
  13. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    This is very correct but go before that. Why did God call Abraham in the first place? The point I am getting at is that through Abraham, got wanted to establish a people that can be his representative on earth, his people who can then influence and reach the entire world. God was never interested in only saving the nation of Israel. All nations of the earth were to be blessed through Abraham. Do you agree with that?
     
  14. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Yes, he chose him because most of the people were in apostasy. Abram was one of the few who feared God. So he was the right man for the mission.
     
  15. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    ?

    Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost ... - Bible Hub
    biblehub.com/matthew/15-24.htm
    Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep--the people of Israel."
     
  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    (1) no.
    (2) no.
    (3) no.
    (maybe clarified later)
     
  17. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    So what then is Matthew 28: 19 - 20 about?

    I never said Jesus Christ was to go to all the world. I already know Jesus specifically was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Are you saying that God was not interested in saving all of his creation?
     
  18. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    The verse I quoted states that all the Jews are loved by God on account of the Patriarchs. I agree with that.

    I would say that in a different way, God loves all of humanity, that indeed he loves all of his creation. But just as I love my daughter in a different way than my son, God loves Israel in a way that is different from the nations.
     
  19. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    I totally get what you are saying but you have to be a bit careful because God's love is unconditional and perfect. It means he loves the saint just as much as he loves the rebellious man who just committed murder but i get your point. But you mean to say you're not going to agree with the point I am trying to make that God intended for Israel to be a lighthouse to the world, and through them he can be able to extend salvation to everyone?
     
  20. Tomb523

    Tomb523 Member

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    Not sure if I can reply with great clarity as I'm extremely tired from work, but let me give it a try and I'm going to parsphrase some things from the bible.

    Your premise assumes the "Christian Church" is a new creation rather than a continuation of the old. We can't forget that Jesus was a Jew. All of the apostles that started the "Christian Church" were Jews. Why would we assume God abandoned his people?

    Romans speaks of gentiles being grafted onto the vine of Israel which would make us part of the root, not a new planting. Christianity as we call it now days, is an extension of Judaism, not a new creation. It is far more accurate, biblically speaking, that the gentiles are included into the family of God, not a new family.

    We know not all are saved and that includes the Jews; however, there is talk about saving the remnant being saved in Romans 9:
    …26and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” 27Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

    There were many debates in the NT about the old Jews trying to make the Gentiles conform to the Mosaic law, yet they were not given the law and Paul was clear about that. But the concept here and what Jesus tried to convey is that it is not in adhering to a set of rules (pharisee washing the cup) that makes one pure, but what is in his heart. This follows the greatest commandment, "Love the Lord thy God with all they heart, soul and might." You can obey law, but still not like it. But if you love God with all you have, you want nothing more than to please Him an thus you maintain His commandments because you desire too. Same with the abolishment of tithing being replaced with the joyful giver. Does one mean giving less than the other or more?

    We are NOT bound by the law, but yet we are - at least the moral part of it. Love God with everything and love your neighbor the same and all the commandments will be fullfilled in the spirit in which God intended.
     
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