Is it a sin for a Christian to listen to Heavy Metal music?

[Zecryphon]

There is entirely too much agreement on this thread. So, I am going to change my position . . . . Not only is heavy metal music evil . . . . All music is evil, except of course good old hymns. And even here you have to be careful. If a song contains any instrument other than pipe organ, it is evil. If its tempo exceeds 50 bpm, it is evil. If it doesn't contain a clear biblical theological teaching, by that I mean, if it does not clearly and obviously reinforce one of the fundamentals of the faith, it is evil. All of that being said, it is probably better not to listen to music at all, because it might just cause you to go to hell. Come to think of it, even using the word "music" is probably evil.

In, sum, of course heavy metal music is evil. It was brought to us by Satan to corrupt the weak and turn them from the Lord. If you listen to Heavy Metal, or any other type of music for that matter, there is hope. You can repent now, and promise to never ever ever listen to music again, and be saved. Amen.

You'd make a good Lutheran. LOL

 

[Trashionista]

I'll be honest, I am not that familiar with heavy metal music and therefore, cannot name a song that is unChristian. However, I'd be willing to bet that one or two songs from the likes of Marilyn Manson would qualify.

I'm the first to admit AntiChrist Superstar is on my Top 25 favourite albums list. Personally. Sonically, its well-produced, but I would say that with Manson, that its also the shock value that is the appeal. And he puts on a really amazing live show. Its entertainment - much the same way I look at an Alice Cooper, or KISS, or a Screamin' Jay Hawkins, or Wendy O'Williams. And that's all it is. [Which isn't to say these artists are all relegated to guilty pleasure status. On the contrary. I think several have had amazing, well-produced songs.]

I hate to say it, but its censorship that makes these things sucsessful. Deep Throat was sucsessful because the government went after it, and while Elvis and The Doors were all very talented, without out the controversy, do you really think 40, 50 years later we'd still be listening to their music?

I don't know why metal gets the bad rap. I wouldn't say a band like Cannibal Corpse has clean lyrics, but I don't see if there is a good beat or what have you, one shouldn't listen to it. Regardless of lyrical content.

I love my metal. And I know people like to blame Manson for things like Columbine. But really - do you think if the parents are truly involved in their kids lives, and parenting their kids properly, they'd shoot up a school? No. The majority of people can listen to Manson and see it for what it is. One tale of delinquency is not a paradigm for his entire listenership.

 

[Zecryphon]

I'm the first to admit AntiChrist Superstar is on my Top 25 favourite albums list. Personally. Sonically, its well-produced, but I would say that with Manson, that its also the shock value that is the appeal. And he puts on a really amazing live show. Its entertainment - much the same way I look at an Alice Cooper, or KISS, or a Screamin' Jay Hawkins, or Wendy O'Williams. And that's all it is. [Which isn't to say these artists are all relegated to guilty pleasure status. On the contrary. I think several have had amazing, well-produced songs.]

I hate to say it, but its censorship that makes these things sucsessful. Deep Throat was sucsessful because the government went after it, and while Elvis and The Doors were all very talented, without out the controversy, do you really think 40, 50 years later we'd still be listening to their music?

I don't know why metal gets the bad rap. I wouldn't say a band like Cannibal Corpse has clean lyrics, but I don't see if there is a good beat or what have you, one shouldn't listen to it. Regardless of lyrical content.

I love my metal. And I know people like to blame Manson for things like Columbine. But really - do you think if the parents are truly involved in their kids lives, and parenting their kids properly, they'd shoot up a school? No. The majority of people can listen to Manson and see it for what it is. One tale of delinquency is not a paradigm for his entire listenership.

I" hate to say it, but its censorship that makes these things sucsessful. Deep Throat was sucsessful because the government went after it, and while Elvis and The Doors were all very talented, without out the controversy, do you really think 40, 50 years later we'd still be listening to their music?"

Yes I do. Shock value changes from decade to decade. What was shocking in the 50's was the norm in the 60's. So once the shock value goes away, what are you left with? The music. What Jim Morrison and Elvis did onstage by today's standards is tame, but it's the music and the lyrics and the ideas expressed therein that keep people coming back to it.

 

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Why would you try to do something you know you never will be able to do? When I hear of a person trying to attain right standing with God by what they do, they are engaged in works-righteous salvation.

Yes, but, you can't be let into heaven just based on your works.

Don't forget that, people.

 

[Zecryphon]

Yes, but, you can't be let into heaven just based on your works.

Don't forget that, people.

I hope you understand that I am not promoting a works-righteous salvation. I consider it heresy.

 

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

I'm the first to admit AntiChrist Superstar is on my Top 25 favourite albums list. Personally. Sonically, its well-produced, but I would say that with Manson, that its also the shock value that is the appeal. And he puts on a really amazing live show. Its entertainment - much the same way I look at an Alice Cooper, or KISS, or a Screamin' Jay Hawkins, or Wendy O'Williams. And that's all it is. [Which isn't to say these artists are all relegated to guilty pleasure status. On the contrary. I think several have had amazing, well-produced songs.]

I hate to say it, but its censorship that makes these things sucsessful. Deep Throat was sucsessful because the government went after it, and while Elvis and The Doors were all very talented, without out the controversy, do you really think 40, 50 years later we'd still be listening to their music?

I don't know why metal gets the bad rap. I wouldn't say a band like Cannibal Corpse has clean lyrics, but I don't see if there is a good beat or what have you, one shouldn't listen to it. Regardless of lyrical content.

I love my metal. And I know people like to blame Manson for things like Columbine. But really - do you think if the parents are truly involved in their kids lives, and parenting their kids properly, they'd shoot up a school? No. The majority of people can listen to Manson and see it for what it is. One tale of delinquency is not a paradigm for his entire listenership.

Very true!!!
And I'd have to agree with pretty much everything you said.
But, I'm not a big fan of Manson. He's not exactly my style, but I still don't bag him.
I look at it like this, if I was good enough to be putting out cd's and to go on tour, then I would be able to diss artists. But, I don't have any records out, and the only tour I went on I was a roadie...

 

[Ave Maria]

OK, OP, now that you have admitted to starting this Thread with NO knowledge of what you were talking about, I would like to go-over your put-downs of me in your response (Post # 4).

You claim: "In fact, I do not believe what you assumed me to believe."
What do I assume that you believe?
I don't think I said much.
So, unless you were flaming me, please explain yourself.

And, the OP claimed to take offense: "Oh and do not put words in my mouth like you did by adding "any" to my words."
I can't understand what you are putting me down about.
Please explain how my adding "any" (in Brackets) actually put words into your Mouth.

I think YOU are the one who is assuming too much from what I am am saying ... NOT the other way around.

So, explain yourself, and we will see who is doing the assuming.

You're on ignore now.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

I don't think watching/listening to/playing anything that might have innappropriate content is bad at all. I mean, most bad content is nothing but reality. I play GTA. It's a fun game. It's when what you listen to or watch seeps into your brain and you start acting like the fictional stories/songs you're listening to or agreeing or whatever, that it becomes bad. It's not the songs fault. Most death metal is just for show. The singers(?) don't do anything they sing or suggest so it's not like you're marketing bad behavior. Pop singers who sing nothing but peppy "love my boyfriend/hate my boyfriend" cliche spend more money on drugs than death metal artists, so there's really no harm in listening to it.

Honestly, society is way to uptight when we're censoring music to the degree that we are. Young kids, I agree, shouldn't be involved in this stuff. But thats because young kids are impressionable. But adults. Even older teenagers (like 15 or 16 and up) know that it's just a game and not to take it seriously. They can control their speech to censoring cursing is just silly.

No where in the Bible does it say it's really a sin. It's mentioned (I think) not to soil your mind with unpleasant thoughts, but that was referring to sexuality (inappropriate contentography, which I'm iffy about. inappropriate contentography is in a place outside of movies because, well, it's not reality. It's just sex.) You're not neccesarily soiling your mind when you watch R-rated movies. I didn't feel like joining the Mafia after I watched Eastern Compromise (though I did feel an inspiration to learn Russian). I don't want to go drag race after I play Gran Turismo. And, since I don't listen intently to Heavy Metal, I don't think I can fly or have magical whatever after listening to my Disney music (I'm addicted.)

 

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

I hope you understand that I am not promoting a works-righteous salvation. I consider it heresy.

I know. I wasn't bashing what you said in any way. I was just adding a little staple to it.

 

[Trashionista]

Yes I do. Shock value changes from decade to decade. What was shocking in the 50's was the norm in the 60's. So once the shock value goes away, what are you left with? The music. What Jim Morrison and Elvis did onstage by today's standards is tame, but it's the music and the lyrics and the ideas expressed therein that keep people coming back to it.

Well, who's to say that Deep Throat despite being a inappropriate contentographic film, was not a quality film?

The Golden Age of Adult film wasn't just about the viewership being aroused. Its considered an adult film classic.

Jim Morrison was a lyrical genius, and I do admire him for that. But the leather pants and persona have also added to his appeal. A Manson [I do think Manson from a visual sense is quite talented.] or an Elvis or a Morrison had a spark that seperated them, and they used that to their advantage.

Not every American Poet gets world-wide super stardom. Nor do people make pilgramige's to every poet's grave. Jim Morrison knew that. So, its not just lyrical content - he is an icon in the truest sense. And a lot of that has to do with fashion, charisma, etc. Not just the musician factor.

 

[zenith08]

a bunch of tool songs have an anti-christian theme

What is anti-christian though? Some of David's whiny psalms (why do you torment me o lord bla bla bla) might be considered anti-christian if they weren't in the Bible.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

one example is the song H. Most agree that it is a song about Christ, and using the title H as a reference (because the usage of the term "Jesus H. Christ" started becoming common).

Here's the lyrics, the first few times I listened to the song I thought He was talking about his struggle with Satan, but now it looks to me like He basically talks about Christ in the way a christian would talk about satan.

From what i've read, he grew up in a religious family and seems to be emotionally scarred and resentful because of it.

And heres a link to an april fools "prank" that he pulled a few years ago

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1499613/20050405/tool.jhtml

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

This is A Perfect Circle, which is led also by maynard.
Be advised this link has foul language.
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric....rfect-Circle/D0DE682FF5444125482568FE00332AC6

 

[HighwayMan]

heh. Heavy Metal is easily my favorite genre. And I'm a pretty big fan of Marylin Manson myself. I know many Christians see this as wrong, but I see other sides to it. While extreme, there is a lot of truth in his lyrics, and it resonates deeply. As for his and others' "anti-Christ" antics - you have to remember it's all a show. I doubt many would pick on an actor for playing the devil in a movie, and this is along the same lines. It may indeed attract a lot of "lost" individuals, but if your faith is strong enough you won't let it be compromised.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

an actor playing a role and a musician stating he is anti-God are not one in the same. We know that actors are playing roles when we see them on TV, we do not know if a musician is putting on a 'show' by the statements and actions he/she makes. We are known by our fruits, and what fruits can come of those who blaspheme against God? Whether pretending or not? What's more important, putting on a show or doing (and saying) what is right by God?

 

[HighwayMan]

an actor playing a role and a musician stating he is anti-God are not one in the same. We know that actors are playing roles when we see them on TV, we do not know if a musician is putting on a 'show' by the statements and actions he/she makes. We are known by our fruits, and what fruits can come of those who blaspheme against God? Whether pretending or not? What's more important, putting on a show or doing (and saying) what is right by God?

I'll have to disagree with you there - we do know (or should know) that musical shows are theatrical performances just like everything in the entertainment industry. The stories the artists tell in their lyrics often reflect personal feelings, but they are still mostly fabricated. Manson's performance is based on shock value - in fact there aren't many that use it better.

I'm not saying I agree or enjoy the anti-Christian messages, but to me at least it really is no different from a movie or even a painting depicting hell or the like.

 

[NHB_MMA]

a bunch of tool songs have an anti-christian theme, although I think they are a reflection of maynard's (sp?) personal issues in dealing with it throughout his life.

Being a Nine Inch Nails fan (great live show, BTW, particularly if you get pit seats), I would say Trent Reznor also expresses his frustrations in a way that could come off as hostile to God. But it seems to be a real experience and it's not as if he is really on a mission to be critical of all things Christian like some have been. A song like Terrible Lie expresses his frustration and unfulfillment and while Closer expresses something different, it's definitely not about being sacriligious.

 

[NHB_MMA]

What is anti-christian though? Some of David's whiny psalms (why do you torment me o lord bla bla bla) might be considered anti-christian if they weren't in the Bible.

That's actually a great point. Some of the lyrics of Terrible Lie are much like some of what is in Psalms.

 

[Zecryphon]

Well, who's to say that Deep Throat despite being a inappropriate contentographic film, was not a quality film?

The Golden Age of Adult film wasn't just about the viewership being aroused. Its considered an adult film classic.

Jim Morrison was a lyrical genius, and I do admire him for that. But the leather pants and persona have also added to his appeal. A Manson [I do think Manson from a visual sense is quite talented.] or an Elvis or a Morrison had a spark that seperated them, and they used that to their advantage.

Not every American Poet gets world-wide super stardom. Nor do people make pilgramige's to every poet's grave. Jim Morrison knew that. So, its not just lyrical content - he is an icon in the truest sense. And a lot of that has to do with fashion, charisma, etc. Not just the musician factor.

"Well, who's to say that Deep Throat despite being a inappropriate contentographic film, was not a quality film?"

I can say it's not a quality film and you can say it is. Freedom of speech. But as you're Canadian, obviously the U.S. laws regarding free speech don't apply to you.

"The Golden Age of Adult film wasn't just about the viewership being aroused. Its considered an adult film classic."

Along with Debbie Does Dallas, Behind the Green Door and others, but it doesn't mean it offers anything of quality or value to society at large. If you even attempt to argue that there is a social message in inappropriate content, you're gonig on ignore. People watch inappropriate content to get off, not to gain a deeper understanding of society.

"Jim Morrison was a lyrical genius, and I do admire him for that. But the leather pants and persona have also added to his appeal. A Manson [I do think Manson from a visual sense is quite talented.] or an Elvis or a Morrison had a spark that seperated them, and they used that to their advantage."

True, but how shocking do you consider what Jim Morrison supposedly did at the Key Dinner Theatre in 1968, where he supposedly exposed himself, by today's standards? His shock value, and the shock value of people like Marilyn Manson, Elvis Presley, Ozzy Osbourne, Christian Aguilera, etc. is not what will keep people coming back to or discovering the music of these artists in the future. It's their talent and the message contained in their music that will do that.

"Not every American Poet gets world-wide super stardom. Nor do people make pilgramige's to every poet's grave. Jim Morrison knew that. So, its not just lyrical content - he is an icon in the truest sense. And a lot of that has to do with fashion, charisma, etc. Not just the musician factor."

If you think Jim Morrison was into "the limelight" think again. Know why he went to France? Not only to get away from the trial in Dade County for the indecent exposure charge, but to get away from the fans who would hound him everywhere he went. The problem with going to Paris though was that he was almost as popular there as he was in L.A. No matter what he did to separate himself from the media and the glitz, he couldn't do it.

I didn't say it was just the lyrical content. I said it's not just shock value that keeps people listening to people like Jim Morrison or Elvis Presley. You wanna contend that it is. I added that it is the music and the lyrical content that keeps bringing fans in and old fans back to that music. I'm saying it's a combination of factors, where you're relying solely on shock value.

 

[Trashionista]

I can say it's not a quality film and you can say it is. Freedom of speech. But as you're Canadian, obviously the U.S. laws regarding free speech don't apply to you.

I think you missed my point.

Deep Throat owes as much sucsess to the government trying to censor it.

But you take Jenna Jameson - who everyone knows, regardless of whether you've watched any of her films or read her book - but I can't name any film she's done.

Along with Debbie Does Dallas, Behind the Green Door and others, but it doesn't mean it offers anything of quality or value to society at large. If you even attempt to argue that there is a social message in inappropriate content, you're gonig on ignore. People watch inappropriate content to get off, not to gain a deeper understanding of society.

The Devil in Miss Jones as an adaptation of Sartre.

TIME did quite an article about the best inappropriate content flicks after Inside Deep Throat came out. Its not as if all inappropriate content flicks are couple meet - sex - climax - end. There are some that have had actual storylines and capable actors.

I guess it all depends what one would actually consider inappropriate content, though.

True, but how shocking do you consider what Jim Morrison supposedly did at the Key Dinner Theatre in 1968, where he supposedly exposed himself, by today's standards?

Its only shocking if you're a complete prude. I highly doubt if he'd had done it in Paris he'd have gotten the same reaction.

His shock value, and the shock value of people like Marilyn Manson, Elvis Presley, Ozzy Osbourne, Christian Aguilera, etc. is not what will keep people coming back to or discovering the music of these artists in the future. It's their talent and the message contained in their music that will do that.

I'd say it is the shock value that will lead them to find it, though the music will keep them. The initial draw will be related to the shock value.

Its like arguing Trudeaumania. Granted, I'm in a very Liberal city in a very Liberal school. But the movement and the reverance for Trudeau is not just politics. My age group didn't experience Trudeau's governent for ourselves, but the reverance is still palpable. Our initial interest comes in the outpouring of admiration the older generation has, but our invested interest would have more to do with his politics.

Its the same with a Morrison or Osbourne or what have you.

If you think Jim Morrison was into "the limelight" think again.

I never said he was into the limelight. Just that he knew how to use the press to his gain.

Do you think the leather pants were an accident?