IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

RickReads

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Yep we cannot argue with the scriptures and neither should we ignore them. Do you believe Paul was taking Jeremiah 31:31-34 out of context in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Hebrews 10:15-18 when applying it to Christ and his believers under the new covenant application to Christ sacrifice for the sins of the world once for all (Hebrews 10:10)?

erroneous, ignored.
 
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RickReads

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As I said to you already, that is not referring to the New Covenant. You are trying to insert the NC there.

All of us in the Body of Christ, whether Jews or gentiles, are saved directly by being in that body. Its an act of pure grace God gave us, to provoke Israel to jealousy. (Romans 11:11).

Israel, on the other hand, had to wait until the NC begins for them, before they can receive the same salvation.

Can I say you assume salvation MUST be tied up to the New Covenant? You cannot imagine its possible to receive salvation by being in the Body of Christ without it?

I see no relevance to your comments. You are starting to decide what I believe again which makes me lose interest.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: Yep we cannot argue with the scriptures and neither should we ignore them. Do you believe Paul was taking Jeremiah 31:31-34 out of context in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Hebrews 10:15-18 when applying it to Christ and his believers under the new covenant application to Christ sacrifice for the sins of the world once for all (Hebrews 10:10)?
Your response
erroneous, ignored.
What is erroneous? If you do not want to answer my questions and scriptures shared with you of course you do not have to if you do not want to but ignoring them does not make them disappear.
 
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Guojing

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2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

You don't like to quote the book where you got scripture from?

That passage is referring to the millennial reign of Christ. Once Israel regain the favored nation status in God eye's once again, salvation during the 1000 year reign is once again thru Israel (Genesis 12:3, John 4:22)

Gentiles who want to be saved during that time, must go thru Israel. (Zechariah 8:23)

But the Body of Christ, we will already be in heavens then. 1 Corinthians 6:3
 
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RickReads

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Your response

What is erroneous? If you do not want to answer my questions and scriptures shared with you of course you do not have to if you do not want to but ignoring them does not make them disappear.

Have to steward my time, sry.
 
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Guojing

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I see no relevance to your comments. You are starting to decide what I believe again which makes me lose interest.

I was asking you a question to clarify, not deciding what you believe in

Can I say you assume salvation MUST be tied up to the New Covenant? You cannot imagine its possible to receive salvation by being in the Body of Christ without it?
 
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Guojing

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Your response...

Yep we cannot argue with the scriptures and neither should we ignore them. Do you believe Paul was taking Jeremiah 31:31-34 out of context in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Hebrews 10:15-18 when applying it to Christ and his believers under the new covenant application to Christ sacrifice for the sins of the world once for all (Hebrews 10:10)?

Again, how do you know Paul wrote Hebrews, given what he agreed with Peter James and John over at Galatians 2:7-9, to restrict his ministry to the uncircumcised?

If you are going to say it doesn't matter, I am saying it does. Don't attribute to Paul something that he did not write.
 
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Blade

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Hi.. just going to touch on this. We know what Jerm said and Heb. We know Christ said He is they way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except by through Christ. That is the only way in. Being Jewish or call it Israel unless you know Jesus as lord or are bind there is no way in.

He once showed me about 2 years ago something then asked me. "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". Took me a long time to figure out "originally of the vine'? Israel I still guess.. what else could it be. What He showed me was about something else yet.. I can't seem to shake it when reading the posts here.

Israel my not be faithful, believers may not be faithful but every promise the Father of our lord Jesus Christ.. God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob has made to Israel PRAISE GOD He will keep His word. He is faithful to what Christ has done.
 
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RickReads

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Hi.. just going to touch on this. We know what Jerm said and Heb. We know Christ said He is they way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except by through Christ. That is the only way in. Being Jewish or call it Israel unless you know Jesus as lord or are bind there is no way in.

He once showed me about 2 years ago something then asked me. "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". Took me a long time to figure out "originally of the vine'? Israel I still guess.. what else could it be. What He showed me was about something else yet.. I can't seem to shake it when reading the posts here.

Israel my not be faithful, believers may not be faithful but every promise the Father of our lord Jesus Christ.. God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob has made to Israel PRAISE GOD He will keep His word. He is faithful to what Christ has done.

Perhaps the passage below is your answer. Romans 8.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Your response...

Yep we cannot argue with the scriptures and neither should we ignore them. Do you believe Paul was taking Jeremiah 31:31-34 out of context in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Hebrews 10:15-18 when applying it to Christ and his believers under the new covenant application to Christ sacrifice for the sins of the world once for all (Hebrews 10:10)?


Hi I read your post where you cited many scriptures and I looked up everyone of them. Your case is the promise of the holy spirit is tied to the new heart in the new covenant and make statements that move to dismiss any other prophecy as being fulfilled and want to send the case to the jury pretty quick. I have agreed we are under the new covenant and that there is a spiritual Israel and kingdom as well. I have maintained that national Israel has a destiny that is clearly laid out in prophecy and in one of your verses it brought up the idea of doctrine on John. Now there are many doctrines in the scriptures and one of them in particular is the law of the prophet which paraphrased notes the prophet must be 100% accurate. Now in this discussion I have attempted to cite of few of the many prophecies that are still to come regarding national Israel and tie them to the end times.

This is where when you are confronted with contradictions that the LORD declares will come to pass you go back and restate your case and do not address the verses that are mentioned. In Jer 30 and 31 for example it notes that the city Jerusalem will be rebuilt after the day of Jacobs trouble when he is saved out of it. This is tied to David being raised up and in the latter days. Jer 31 ends with the city being built at a time when the dead bodies fill the valley and from that time on it will be holy and never thrown down again. Can you explain these verses which certainly are parallel to what is described in Zech 14 and Armageddon?

I have linked the prophecies of Luke one with Jesus to take the throne of David and then to deliver Israel from its enemies in keeping the prophecies , promises, covenants and oaths that they would be delivered from their enemies to a time of worshiping and serving the LORD without fear and now in holiness all the days of their lives. This idea in a literal view has no contradictions with a futurist view. Zech 14, Dan 7 Joel 3 Isaiah 61 all tell this exact before and after story.

Please rather than restate your case explain Y or no is the mount of Olives going to split and will the dead sea be healed? ZEch 14 Eze 47. If you listed all the passages that contain promises, prophecies, covenants and oaths some are that the Gentiles will be brought in and so you do not have to restate this. I would rather have a dialogue where we can answer specific tough questions.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Again, how do you know Paul wrote Hebrews, given what he agreed with Peter James and John over at Galatians 2:7-9, to restrict his ministry to the uncircumcised? If you are going to say it doesn't matter, I am saying it does. Don't attribute to Paul something that he did not write.

As posted earlier, no one knows for sure and it does not really matter. Some believe it was Paul and others someone else. What is important though is that the book of Hebrews is Gods' Word and we should believe and follow it.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi I read your post where you cited many scriptures and I looked up everyone of them. Your case is the promise of the holy spirit is tied to the new heart in the new covenant and make statements that move to dismiss any other prophecy as being fulfilled and want to send the case to the jury pretty quick. I have agreed we are under the new covenant and that there is a spiritual Israel and kingdom as well. I have maintained that national Israel has a destiny that is clearly laid out in prophecy and in one of your verses it brought up the idea of doctrine on John. Now there are many doctrines in the scriptures and one of them in particular is the law of the prophet which paraphrased notes the prophet must be 100% accurate. Now in this discussion I have attempted to cite of few of the many prophecies that are still to come regarding national Israel and tie them to the end times.

This is where when you are confronted with contradictions that the LORD declares will come to pass you go back and restate your case and do not address the verses that are mentioned. In Jer 30 and 31 for example it notes that the city Jerusalem will be rebuilt after the day of Jacobs trouble when he is saved out of it. This is tied to David being raised up and in the latter days. Jer 31 ends with the city being built at a time when the dead bodies fill the valley and from that time on it will be holy and never thrown down again. Can you explain these verses which certainly are parallel to what is described in Zech 14 and Armageddon?

I have linked the prophecies of Luke one with Jesus to take the throne of David and then to deliver Israel from its enemies in keeping the prophecies , promises, covenants and oaths that they would be delivered from their enemies to a time of worshiping and serving the LORD without fear and now in holiness all the days of their lives. This idea in a literal view has no contradictions with a futurist view. Zech 14, Dan 7 Joel 3 Isaiah 61 all tell this exact before and after story.

Please rather than restate your case explain Y or no is the mount of Olives going to split and will the dead sea be healed? ZEch 14 Eze 47. If you listed all the passages that contain promises, prophecies, covenants and oaths some are that the Gentiles will be brought in and so you do not have to restate this. I would rather have a dialogue where we can answer specific tough questions.

Hi Brian, I think you missed the point of why I posted the scriptures earlier. Paul is quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34 in regards to the fulfillment of the new covenant application of Jesus as the promised Messiah and God's sacrifice for the sins of the world *Hebrews 10:10 in Hebrews 8:10-12 and again in Hebrews 10:1-22 with application to the fulfillment of the new covenant in the death and resurrection of Jesus as the Christ and promised Messiah and Savior of the world. The other scriptures provided from Jesus in John 14:26; John 16:13: John 7:17: John 8:31-36 and 1 John 2:27 are also all connected to Hebrews 8:11-12 (from Jeremiah 31:24). I did not state anywhere that any other prophecy as not being fulfilled as being already fulfilled.
 
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Guojing

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As posted earlier, no one knows for sure and it does not really matter. Some believe it was Paul and others someone else. What is important though is that the book of Hebrews is Gods' Word and we should believe and follow it.

You don't follow the instructions in Genesis 6:14, even though its God's word, because it was a command to Noah correct?

So why do you want to follow the instructions to the nation of Israel written in the book of Hebrews?

Because you think we in the Body of Christ have now replaced Israel in God's eyes?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You don't follow the instructions in Genesis 6:14, even though its God's word, because it was a command to Noah correct?

So why do you want to follow the instructions to the nation of Israel written in the book of Hebrews?

Because you think we in the Body of Christ have now replaced Israel in God's eyes?
Question that have a faulty premise. See OP and the scriptures provided there. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. Gods' ISRAEL in the new covenant are no longer those in the flesh but all those who are now born of the Spirit through faith in Gods' Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29 and Romans 2:28-29. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27 and we are all now one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-15; Galatians 3:28. What is it in the scriptures shared here and already provided in the OP that you disagree with?
 
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Guojing

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Question that have a faulty premise. See OP and the scriptures provided there. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. Gods' ISRAEL in the new covenant are no longer those in the flesh but all those who are now born of the Spirit through faith in Gods' Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29 and Romans 2:28-29. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27 and we are all now one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-15; Galatians 3:28. What is it in the scriptures shared here and already provided in the OP that you disagree with?

Your claim that "If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise" is basically a tautology.

We are not included in the Israel that God is making the New Covenant with (Hebrews 8:8)

Us in the Body of Christ are saved without any covenants. We are given salvation by being in the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:7)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your claim that "If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise" is basically a tautology.

We are not included in the Israel that God is making the New Covenant with (Hebrews 8:8)

Us in the Body of Christ are saved without any covenants. We are given salvation by being in the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:7)

Please forgive me but I do not believe you. (scriptures already provided why). Of course you are free to believe as you wish, I will leave that between you and God to work through. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
 
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Guojing

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Please forgive me but I do not believe you. (scriptures already provided why). Of course you are free to believe as you wish, I will leave that between you and God to work through. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Yes, of course, we can agree to disagree.
 
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HIM

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It is being spoken in the Subjunctive mood.
Mood-Subjunctive

The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and
potentiality. The action described may or may not occur,
depending upon circumstances.

Whether we see or believe it...
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
That`s just isn`t a sound explaination. The Bible says God is not the author of confusion.
Grammar dictates what we read. Can't get any sounder than that.

Grammatically Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8:10 are being spoken in the Subjunctive mood.
Mood-Subjunctive

The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and
potentiality. The action described may or may not occur,
depending upon circumstances.

Whether we see or believe it...
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 
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