Is Islam a False Religion?

FireDragon76

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Where do you get the idea that because we say it's false, because we know they need Jesus to be saved just as we did, that we therefore would see the Muslim next door as a demon? And where is anyone lying- Islam is plenty damning on its own.

This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem. Christians need to engage with Muslims as people, including with their reilgious ideas, and not simply demonize them. Until we are willing to accept Muslims as fellow truth-seekers, I don't think we have the right to criticize Islam.
 
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FireDragon76

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Vatican II documents state that "The plan of salvation includes the Muslims." Now to be fair, the Catholic Church has never explained exactly what that means. However, there is little doubt but what the Catholic Church does believe that Muslims worship the God of Abraham.

Yes, it's intentionally vague but it states the clear point that Jesus Christ is the light of the world, the light that enlightens everyone who comes into the world. As Desmond Tutu pointed out years ago, God is not a Christian. God is not a tribal God, he is the God of all people and he loves humanity, including Muslims.
 
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klutedavid

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A self-professed Christian nationalist group attacked two mosques and killed 49 people.

So this is why we should not talk about Islam in the abstract. A Muslim could be your neighbor. They are not demons following false religions, they are people with different religions. And it isn't right to try to lie or engage in propaganda about their religion, as that is disrespectful to who they are.
I have a Muslim flatmate and Muslims are following a religion that came along far too late.

The facts are that the death and the resurrection of the messiah actually took place. That is the reason that Christianity spread so quickly across the Roman empire. Over five hundred witnesses of the resurrection and many more of the Christ and the crucifixion.

It is not disrespectful at all, Islam relies on Muhammad and that is it's weakness. If Muhammad was mistaken then Islam is utterly worthless. That is why Islam defends their prophet so vehemently, they have no choice.
 
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klutedavid

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Vatican II documents state that "The plan of salvation includes the Muslims." Now to be fair, the Catholic Church has never explained exactly what that means. However, there is little doubt but what the Catholic Church does believe that Muslims worship the God of Abraham.
Yes Basil, but salvation is not based on a belief in the God of Abraham. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. There is no other revelation available to mankind.

The God of Abraham was the Word, the creator of heaven and earth. One truth, one God, one Christ.
 
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klutedavid

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Yes, it's intentionally vague but it states the clear point that Jesus Christ is the light of the world, the light that enlightens everyone who comes into the world. As Desmond Tutu pointed out years ago, God is not a Christian. God is not a tribal God, he is the God of all people and he loves humanity, including Muslims.
Regardless of any other so called Gods, we were created by Jesus and for Jesus.

The Christ is utterly tribal, you must believe in Jesus to be saved. Only the followers of the Christ are in heaven, there are no hairy goats in heaven.

God is not a Christian but we were created in the image of Jesus Himself.
 
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FireDragon76

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It is not disrespectful at all, Islam relies on Muhammad and that is it's weakness. If Muhammad was mistaken then Islam is utterly worthless. That is why Islam defends their prophet so vehemently, they have no choice.

I don't think that's fair to say. Islam is part of civil society in many countries. Our own Supreme Court has a relief-carving of Muhammed, honoring his contributions as a lawgiver. As a Lutheran, I can appreciate the rule of law, even if it is the hands of non-Christians, as a God-given gift.
 
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FireDragon76

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Regardless of any other so called Gods, we were created by Jesus and for Jesus.

The Christ is utterly tribal, you must believe in Jesus to be saved. Only the followers of the Christ are in heaven, there are no hairy goats in heaven.

This is only true for a certain strand of Christianity, but the historical Jesus likely never said anything like that. Indeed, we have Jesus saying this, in response to the astonishment of the disciples:

"I assure you that many will come from the east and the west and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the feast in the Kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 8:11)

The Kingdom of God is bigger than any human 'ism" or theology.
 
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klutedavid

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I don't think that's fair to say. Islam is part of civil society in many countries. Our own Supreme Court has a relief-carving of Muhammed, honoring his contributions as a lawgiver. As a Lutheran, I can appreciate the rule of law, even if it is the hands of non-Christians, as a God-given gift.
Salvation is not centered on obedience to any written law.

A civil society by any stretch is not some prerequisite for salvation.

The Christ was the entire revelation of divine truth, everything else is trivial and a distraction.

The light came into the world and the darkness simply could not comprehend the truth.
 
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FireDragon76

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Salvation is not centered on obedience to any written law.

A civil society by any stretch is not some prerequisite for salvation.

The Christ was the entire revelation of divine truth, everything else is trivial and a distraction.

The light came into the world and the darkness simply could not comprehend the truth.

While law does not save us, it is one of the gifts of God for the restraint of evil in the secular world, and despising law is sub-Christian. Christianity can be more than just a narrow focus on individual salvation. That is why it is not un-Christian to appreciate the positive contributions of other religions to the world. It is not necessary to denigrate other religions to be a true Christian.
 
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klutedavid

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This is only true for a certain strand of Christianity, but the historical Jesus likely never said anything like that. Indeed, we have Jesus saying this, in response to the astonishment of the disciples:



The Kingdom of God is bigger than any human 'ism" or theology.
We know from the ancient manuscripts that God loves the world. But we also know that the bar was put in place to prevent the entry of unbelievers.

So no matter where in history someone originates, the belief in either the promise of the messiah. Or the actual reality of the belief in the appearance of the messiah. This remains the fundamental dividing line between the believers and the unbelievers.

The truth came from the Jews, not from Arabia or China.
 
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klutedavid

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While law does not save us, it is one of the gifts of God for the restraint of evil in the secular world, and despising law is sub-Christian. Christianity can be more than just a narrow focus on individual salvation. That is why it is not un-Christian to appreciate the positive contributions of other religions to the world. It is not necessary to denigrate other religions to be a true Christian.
I repeat, I am not denigrating but exposing the flawed basis of other religions. They do not have the weight that historical Christianity carries.

Christianity is nothing more that the revelation of the Christ and salvation in following that Christ.

I do not care how other societies tie their shoe laces, it is ultimately in how they treat others that tells us everything we need to know.

God is love, Christ was love in human form, if you love others then you must be a Christian.

Love is a gift of the Holy Spirit, one cannot obey the golden rule without the Holy Spirit. Look for love in it's purest form in any society and you have found the Christ.
 
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Basil the Great

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Even if Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are correct, that the only way to Heaven is to become a Christian in this life, it is still no better than a half truth to say that Islam is a false religion. There are most certainly truths in Islam. The religion teaches that there is one God, the God of Abraham. The faith teaches the importance of helping those in need. The religion believes in fasting to help one get closer to God, something long clung to by some Christians. Islam is big on prayer, telling it's adherents to pray at least five times daily.

Now, as far as who will and will not make it to Heaven, only God knows the answer to that question. It is not up to us to judge. It is always possible that at the moment of death, those who are not in a state of salvation might be given a last chance. Some believe that such is the case. It is also possible that the Catholic Church might be right and that the doctrine of "invincible ignorance" might be the key that saves some non-Christians.
 
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klutedavid

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Even if Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are correct, that the only way to Heaven is to become a Christian in this life, it is still no better than a half truth to say that Islam is a false religion. There are most certainly truths in Islam. The religion teaches that there is one God, the God of Abraham. The faith teaches the importance of helping those in need. The religion believes in fasting to help one get closer to God, something long clung to by some Christians. Islam is big on prayer, telling it's adherents to pray at least five times daily.

Now, as far as who will and will not make it to Heaven, only God knows the answer to that question. It is not up to us to judge. It is always possible that at the moment of death, those who are not in a state of salvation might be given a last chance. Some believe that such is the case. It is also possible that the Catholic Church might be right and that the doctrine of "invincible ignorance" might be the key that saves some non-Christians.
Islam is one man's idea, this fellow's name was Muhammad. Islam reduces to the accuracy, the understanding of just one man at around fifteen hundred years ago. Choose who you believe but Mohammad is in a grave, no resurrection.
 
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DamianWarS

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I know this is Catholic teaching (is it Eastern Orthodox as well?), but it seems pretty clearly false.

God is one God, eternally existent in three persons. Neither the Jews nor the Muslims believe that. So, yes, the Jews and Muslims are worshipping false gods. Even if they call themselves children of Abraham. Jesus had pretty strong words for the Jews in the Bible who did what modern Jews and Muslims do in trying to claim themselves children of Abraham while rejecting Him. Read John 8:39-59 (I can't seem to get it to copy and paste).

Do I really need to provide the Scriptures showing that Jesus is necessary for salvation, and that He who sees Him has seen the Father, and He who rejects the Son, the wrath of God rests on Him?

Do you believe we worship a different God than the Jews? Obviously, we don't worship a false god so if you see the Jews believing in a false god at which point did this change from true worship to false worship? At no time have the Jews professed the trinity, Moses would probably have the person killed if this was taught in the desert; Jews believed and still do in a unitarian monotheistic God. This was the right way, then along came Jesus and challenged it all and it became the wrong way. Did the Jews then begin to worship a false god? Errant views of God may still be the same referent even if insufficient for salvation. Two people may actually describe conflicting accounts about the same thing based on their perspective, both can't be true but both may still be referring to the same thing. What about the many sects of Christianity do we all worship the same God? Which ones do and which ones don't? Who decides?
 
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Original Happy Camper

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What about the many sects of Christianity do we all worship the same God? Which ones do and which ones don't? Who decides?

Jesus decides as our high priest and our judge. What does he use as the rule of law to judge us by you might ask?

Remember what is in the ark of the testimony in heaven, the ten commandments which is covered by the mercy seat.

Jesus said "IF you love me keep my commandments"

Remember that EVE and ADAM disobeyed GOD and sinned.

"Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD"

What about the many sects of Christianity do we all worship the same God?

Lets let the word answer this question

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Islam does not recognize Jesus as GOD thus it is a false religion as are many of the other religions present on this earth today.

Jesus said "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?"
 
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DamianWarS

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Jesus decides as our high priest and our judge. What does he use as the rule of law to judge us by you might ask?

Remember what is in the ark of the testimony in heaven, the ten commandments which is covered by the mercy seat.

Jesus said "IF you love me keep my commandments"

Remember that EVE and ADAM disobeyed GOD and sinned.

"Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD"



Lets let the word answer this question

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Islam does not recognize Jesus as GOD thus it is a false religion as are many of the other religions present on this earth today.

Jesus said "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?"

You're making a leap suggesting I'm saying that those who are pointing to the same God also keep his commandments. That's not what I said, those outside of Christ are in the dark and are unable to keep his commandments, even if on the outside it appears they do and even if their reference of worship may be the same as Christianity.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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God in Islam actually reminds me of God in the Old Testament, loving but ruthless and blunt. The legalism is certainly there as well.

I hope that you understand that the GOD of the old Testament is Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 
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worshipjunkie

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Do you believe we worship a different God than the Jews? Obviously, we don't worship a false god so if you see the Jews believing in a false god at which point did this change from true worship to false worship? At no time have the Jews professed the trinity, Moses would probably have the person killed if this was taught in the desert; Jews believed and still do in a unitarian monotheistic God. This was the right way, then along came Jesus and challenged it all and it became the wrong way. Did the Jews then begin to worship a false god? Errant views of God may still be the same referent even if insufficient for salvation. Two people may actually describe conflicting accounts about the same thing based on their perspective, both can't be true but both may still be referring to the same thing. What about the many sects of Christianity do we all worship the same God? Which ones do and which ones don't? Who decides?

When the revelation of the Trinity was made to them, then yes, they were bound to follow that. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they rejected salvation, and they rejected God, because God has clearly stated you cannot follow Him if you don't follow His Son. I would highly recommend reading the gospel of John if you want to see the divine revelation being made- and rejected- by the Jews. The Jews had the Old Testament and the old covenant as well, which was always meant to lead TO Christ. It's not like it came out of nowhere, they were longing for a Messiah even if they had their priorities on what he would do mixed up.
 
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worshipjunkie

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This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem. Christians need to engage with Muslims as people, including with their reilgious ideas, and not simply demonize them. Until we are willing to accept Muslims as fellow truth-seekers, I don't think we have the right to criticize Islam.

It isn't demonizing to say that the problems with Islam are damning on their own. Islam is a false religion. It starts out with a faulty premise of who God is (leaving out God the Son and God the Holy Spirit) and goes downhill from there.

Muslims may be seeking truth. Christians have found it. In which case the best way to love and accept Muslims is to, with charity and thoughtfulness, share the gospel of Jesus Christ, since He is the only way of salvation. "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)
 
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DamianWarS

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When the revelation of the Trinity was made to them, then yes, they were bound to follow that. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they rejected salvation, and they rejected God, because God has clearly stated you cannot follow Him if you don't follow His Son. I would highly recommend reading the gospel of John if you want to see the divine revelation being made- and rejected- by the Jews. The Jews had the Old Testament and the old covenant as well, which was always meant to lead TO Christ. It's not like it came out of nowhere, they were longing for a Messiah even if they had their priorities on what he would do mixed up.
when was the revelation of the Trinity exposed to the Jews? What of those who never heard of it?
 
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