Is Infant Baptism proper?

[Silverback]

Maybe it works. I received Christ at age four.

I guess we just have to have faith

 

[ViaCrucis]

Baptism is the public confession of faith and repentance

That isn't what the Bible says.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I have no problem with baptizing infants, it's just not the new covenant baptism as described in the bible..

Of course it is--it's Baptism. Christ Himself told His Church to baptize, it's right there in plain print of Scripture, "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit". There's no difference between baptizing someone at eight days old or baptizing someone at eighty years old. Baptism is Baptism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FireDragon76]

That isn't what the Bible says.

-CryptoLutheran

The recitation of the creed is our public confession of faith. Yet many American evangelicals, strangely enough, do not think this is adequate. They think nonbiblical practices such as altar calls are a substitute for actual confessions. Nowhere in the Bible does it say "accepting Jesus by saying a sinners prayer" is how we are saved. That's completely made up by the Evangelical Magisterium. It comes from non-Christian philosophical and cultural trends, such as Romanticism, which says that an emotional response is the only real response to something, that intellectual assent means nothing, because truth is ultimately about what we feel.

 

[ViaCrucis]

But can they repent of it as infants?

Hence the second part of the Great Commission, "teaching them all which I have said to you." We don't baptize people and then let them fend for themselves, we baptize people and then, as the Church, feed them with the spiritual food of God's Word and Sacraments. Repentance is part of the life of the Christian, the daily struggle against the old Adam.

We don't baptize on account of someone's repentance, we baptize for Christ's sake with the knowledge that repentance is part of the regular Christian life. It's why we teach and profess our faith, confessing our faith regularly (such as in the Creed), it's why confessing of sins is part of the regular worship of God's people.

The faulty error here is in imagining that repentance is some once-and-done activity we do that merits ourselves a position with God. That's not what repentance is. Repentance is the life of carrying our cross as disciples of Jesus Christ. St. Paul can say, "I die daily", the struggles he himself faced, such as being thrown to the wild beasts in Ephesus, but also his struggle against sin. The daily death of the Christian is the life of the cross--in our weakness, our suffering, in our struggle. Whether by external pressures of wicked men threatening us with pain of death, or the internal struggle against the old Adam. For the fiery darts of the evil one come at us from all sides, both within and without, but we hold up our shield that is our faith in Christ and His Gospel. And against Christ the devil flees like the coward he is, for Christ has vanquished him.

So boldly confess your sins, for you are quite a sinner.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FireDragon76]

But can they repent of it as infants?

Repentance is not something we initiate, but what God does in us.

The Evangelical view of all of this is not only unbiblical, but impoverishing. There is no bold confidence in God's grace possible when salvation rests on my repentance and my sinners prayer.

The most beautiful hymn I have ever heard is a simple 1960's Lutheran folk hymn called "Borning Cry". It summarizes our understanding of not only baptism, but the entire Christian life. God is with us from the beginning and will be with us till the end and beyond. That is what baptism means for us. It is not our free will choice to follow God, but God's choice to follow us.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The recitation of the creed is our public confession of faith. Yet many American evangelicals, strangely enough, do not think this is adequate. They think nonbiblical practices such as altar calls are a substitute for actual confessions. Nowhere in the Bible does it say "accepting Jesus by saying a sinners prayer" is how we are saved. That's completely made up by the Evangelical Magisterium. It comes from non-Christian philosophical and cultural trends, such as Romanticism, which says that an emotional response is the only real response to something, that intellectual assent means nothing, because truth is ultimately about what we feel.

If one throws out God's Means of grace, it figures that one has to substitute them with something. Obviously, at that point, one just has to make stuff up. When one throws out grace, the natural man brings in law, and then invents his own laws to satiate the flesh.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That isn't what the Bible says.

-CryptoLutheran

That's what my bible says.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That's what my bible says.

I'm sure you'd be willing to post the passages which say that Baptism is "the public confession of faith and repentance".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm sure you'd be willing to post the passages which say that Baptism is "the public confession of faith and repentance".

-CryptoLutheran

Not in those exact words but when I do a bible study of baptism that's what I come away with.

 

[ArmyMatt]

could the non-Orthodox please realize that this is not the place to debate each other?

 

[AMM]

To bring things back to Orthodoxy:

No and no.

Confirmation is not even considered a sacrament by us, it is not comparable to baptism. We retain it as a rite but it is not something the Lord ordained and there is no promise of grace attached to it.

The Orthodox do not have confirmation at all, they practice chrismation ,which is actually something my own church does as well after baptism.

This isn't quite accurate. Confirmation and chrismation are essentially the same as far as I can tell - just different words (and a different emphasis). Yes, they occur at different ages, but they are both an anointing with the seal of the Holy Spirit. Also, the Lord did ordain it and there is a promise of grace attached to it:

"But you have been anointed (Greek: chrisma) by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge." (1 John 2:20ff (also note v. 27))

Also, look at Noah's flood, which is a type of Baptism (1 Peter 3:21). After the flood, what happens? A dove (representing the Holy Spirit) brings back olive branches (oil - chrism) to prove to Noah his salvation from the flood waters.

The term "Christ" is simply "anointed one" and "Christian" means "Little christs" - we cannot be little images of the Anointed One if we are not ourselves anointed. Check out 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 as well. And just the Old Testament - Prophets, Priests, and Kings were all marked and received their office by the anointing of oil. We are called to be these things, images of Christ who is the true Prophet, Priest, and King

it is ordained and given as a gift by the Lord and there are plenty of indications throughout scripture to this effect

 

[buzuxi02]

St. Paul the Apostle explicitly mentions infant baptism. I wouldn't listen to bible only people they have an ideology to protect and a wrongly translated bible to uphold.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

St. Paul the Apostle explicitly mentions infant baptism. I wouldn't listen to bible only people they have an ideology to protect and a wrongly translated bible to uphold.

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[buzuxi02]

Chapter and verse, please.

Galatians 3:27-4:2:
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child (infant), differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.


In the original Koine Greek:
3.27 οσοι γαρ εις χριστον εβαπτισθητε χριστον ενεδυσασθε.....
4.1 λεγω δε εφ οσον χρονον ο κληρονομος νηπιος εστιν ουδεν διαφερει δουλου κυριος παντων ων....

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Galatians 3:27-4:2:
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child (infant), differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.


In the original Koine Greek:
3.27 οσοι γαρ εις χριστον εβαπτισθητε χριστον ενεδυσασθε.....
4.1 λεγω δε εφ οσον χρονον ο κληρονομος νηπιος εστιν ουδεν διαφερει δουλου κυριος παντων ων....

These chapters refer to the covenants, not baptism.

 

[ArmyMatt]

These chapters refer to the covenants, not baptism.

what do you think baptism unites you to?

 

[RobNJ]

Refresh my memory...wasn't infant baptism the standard, before they invented Baptists, somewhere around the 1600's?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Refresh my memory...wasn't infant baptism the standard, before they invented Baptists, somewhere around the 1600's?

Infant baptism does go way back, long before John and Christ.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

what do you think baptism unites you to?

Is adult baptism still anathema? What if a converted adult was never baptized as an infant?