Is Infant Baptism proper?

[Markie Boy]

I have been on board with infant baptism as acceptable for a while, but something made me pause.

I was reading Justin Martyr's First Apology he speaks of how a person can be born again. He says the apostles taught us the reason for this ceremony as follows:

"The apostles taught us the reason for this ceremony, as follows. We have no say in our original birth. It results from the union of our parents...……….However we do not have to remain the children of necessity and ignorance. We can become the children of choice and knowledge through the second birth."

This seems to imply choice is to be involved in our baptism, because we have no choice in our first birth. This does not fit with infant baptism so well.

 

[ArmyMatt]

no, but it's an apology, so he is defending practice against outsiders to the faith. while I don't have his apology in front of me, I suspect this is about adults converting, and why they did.

 

[HTacianas]

I have been on board with infant baptism as acceptable for a while, but something made me pause.

I was reading Justin Martyr's First Apology he speaks of how a person can be born again. He says the apostles taught us the reason for this ceremony as follows:

"The apostles taught us the reason for this ceremony, as follows. We have no say in our original birth. It results from the union of our parents...……….However we do not have to remain the children of necessity and ignorance. We can become the children of choice and knowledge through the second birth."

This seems to imply choice is to be involved in our baptism, because we have no choice in our first birth. This does not fit with infant baptism so well.

To answer your question, yes, infant baptism is proper. You have seemingly stumbled across something that I have seen before that is a "mined quote" of Justin Martyr. It's comes from his First Apology. And in that you have quoted he is speaking of "we" in general, meaning, of course, "we Christians". Part that is edited out in your post go on..."and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training;...".

It was the expectation of Christian parents to instill Christian ethics in their children so that they would not be "brought up in bad habits and wicked training". That Justin did not explicitly mention to the emperor infant baptism does not mean that infant baptism didn't exist. Irenaeus, in Against Heresies, said:

“For He came to save all through means of Himself — all, I say, who through Him are born again to God — infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men.”

 

[Markie Boy]

Sounds good. I'm not really here to "debate" - but discuss. I'm in a Catholic setting, but my trust of things taught in it are very suspect to me at the moment, so I'm trying to read a little more.

It's hard - I'd love to jump on board all things Catholic - would make my life so easy. But the more I learn, the RCC has changed so much in the last 70 years it makes me dizzy.

So I'm trying to go back to find solid ground.

Thank you and God Bless

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think that's an argument against infant baptism, just a reason to be baptized as an adult if you are not already.

The early church varied on when children were baptized- infant baptism was not universal. People just had not thought about it in a critical way yet. John Chrysostom was not baptized until he was a teenager.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Infant baptism = Dedication
Confirmation = Baptism (public confession).

 

[FireDragon76]

Infant baptism = Dedication
Confirmation = Baptism (public confession).

No and no.

Confirmation is not even considered a sacrament by us, it is not comparable to baptism. We retain it as a rite but it is not something the Lord ordained and there is no promise of grace attached to it.

The Orthodox do not have confirmation at all, they practice chrismation ,which is actually something my own church does as well after baptism.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Elsewhere St. Justin refers to persons that have been Christians their entire lives. This quote from Justin does not undermine the baptism of infants, it merely speaks of adult converts.

Here's the quote (about people being Christians their entire lives) I refer to, also from the First Apology (chapter 15),

"And many, both men and women, who have been Christ's disciples from childhood, remain pure at the age of sixty or seventy years; and I boast that I could produce such from every race of men."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No and no.

Confirmation is not even considered a sacrament by us, it is not comparable to baptism. We retain it as a rite but it is not something the Lord ordained and there is no promise of grace attached to it.

The Orthodox do not have confirmation at all, they practice chrismation ,which is actually something my own church does as well after baptism.

I agree. Neither is biblical, but each is likened to those. Sorry about the 'equal' signs.

 

[FireDragon76]

I agree. Neither is biblical, but each is likened to those. Sorry about the 'equal' signs.

If infant baptism is made up, the situation is worse for infant dedication. I see no evidence that is part of the New Covenant. Jesus never instructs us to dedicate our children in a church ritual. But he does say to go and make disciples and to baptize. We just prefer to get them started young.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If infant baptism is made up, the situation is worse for infant dedication. I see no evidence that is part of the New Covenant. Jesus never instructs us to dedicate our children in a church ritual. But he does say to go and make disciples and to baptize. We just prefer to get them started young.

Infant dedication was a custom, not a command. Baptism is the public confession of faith and repentance, performed by immersion followed by the laying on of hands (receiving the H.S.). This the new covenant ritual of baptism.

 

[FireDragon76]

Infant dedication was a custom, not a command. Baptism is the public confession of faith and repentance, performed by immersion followed by the laying on of hands (receiving the H.S.). This the new covenant ritual of baptism.

Usually churches that have infant dedication likewise believe in some kind of regulatory principle for the use of the Scriptures. It seems strange, based on that principle, to have a custom that is not found as a command in the Scriptures. It is hypocritical to have those sorts of rites or customs, and yet criticize our churches for choosing to baptize infants.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Usually churches that have infant dedication likewise believe in some kind of regulatory principle for the use of the Scriptures. It seems strange, based on that principle, to have a custom that is not found as a command in the Scriptures. It is hypocritical to have those sorts of rites or customs, and yet criticize our churches for choosing to baptize infants.

I have no problem with baptizing infants, it's just not the new covenant baptism as described in the bible. Baptism portrays the death and burial of the 'old sinful self' and the resurrection to a new life in Jesus Christ. Infants don't yet possess the old sinful self.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have no problem with baptizing infants, it's just not the new covenant baptism as described in the bible. Baptism portrays the death and burial of the 'old sinful self' and the resurrection to a new life in Jesus Christ. Infants don't yet possess the old sinful self.

There is only one baptism mentioned in our creed, and it is the same baptism for all who are baptized.

Baptism is more than a portrayal, it is not theater. It is the drowning of the Old Adam. Everyone born as a child of Adam inherits corruption.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is only one baptism mentioned in our creed, and it is the same baptism for all who are baptized.

Baptism is more than a portrayal, it is not theater. It is the drowning of the Old Adam. Everyone born as a child of Adam inherits corruption.

Shouldn't a person be aware of their baptism? I was baptized in the Lutheran church but didn't know it until my mother told me many years later.

 

[Silverback]

I have no problem with baptizing infants, it's just not the new covenant baptism as described in the bible. Baptism portrays the death and burial of the 'old sinful self' and the resurrection to a new life in Jesus Christ. Infants don't yet possess the old sinful self.

They do possess the sinful nature, just like the rest of us.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

They do possess the sinful nature, just like the rest of us.

But can they repent of it as infants?

 

[Silverback]

But can they repent of it as infants?

she

Of course not, but baptism is a means of grace.

 

[Silverback]

Shouldn't a person be aware of their baptism? I was baptized in the Lutheran church but didn't know it until my mother told me many years later.

I

I don't think so, the grace of baptism is all God's work.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I

I don't think so, the grace of baptism is all God's work.

Maybe it works. I received Christ at age four.