Is income inequality good or bad ?

keith99

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What is "adequate"? Remember also that each employee is an investment. The employer is counting on getting a certain amount of output from the employee who is being paid right away. Good workers are worth it, bad workers are not. If a position is low-qualification and high-turnover, it doesn't make sense to throw more money at it than necessary to keep up that part of your business. The bad workers will get themselves fired in a few months anyway.
.....

Even there if the low-qualification high-turnover positions are not the whole of the company such an employee can rise at least a little.
Although individual choice will affect one person's standing, it is more of a result of government and society decisions and external events. A historical example is the taxation policy of the Byzantine Empire was to tax the land. If you were a small farmer, you might not be able to afford the tax yourself, especially if your crops had been destroyed in Arab raids. You might then sell your land to the local lord so that he would have to pay the tax and send soldiers to defend it. You would still be farming but just not have the financial responsibility of the land. We still have these kinds of rules where one type of income, say your paycheck, is taxed at one rate but dividends are taxed at another. The idea is to encourage investment but the long-term effect is that those who can live off of dividends (i.e. high-wealth) are taxed at a lower rate than the schlep who has to work for a living.

Not quite true because the hidden tax of inflation takes away from the person with investments. One buys a stock, holds it for 10 years and then sells it at a 'profit' which is then taxed. But the profit is all paper. It may be real or it may in fact be a loss, e.g. the sale price will buy less than the original purchase price would have.

It sucks to be taxed on gains that in fact did not mathc inflation.
 
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dogs4thewin

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I see your point that more responsibility=better pay, but I think it's unethical for a greedy elite to hoard all the profit while not adequately compensating the people at the bottom who play a role in making the company a success. No one should be working full-time and not be paid enough to support themselves, the cost of living continues to rise while wages are stagnating. You also forget that it is not just fast food workers who are underpaid, what about nurses aids, social workers, teachers, caregivers, etc.? In short everyone who works plays a role in the function of society. I find it unsavory to look down on people and assume they deserve to live in poverty, it disgusts me that conservatives think poorly of people in entry-level jobs without recognizing that they are working to earn a living and not sitting on their rumps. There are people with degrees still working entry level jobs because there are no jobs available. I'm not talking just for useless majors, for example I know someone who just got his master's in healthcare administration and still working fast food because he hasn't found a job in that field.
There is a difference in working an entry level job and in making that job your lifelong goal. Entry level jobs are meant to be just that jobs people have starting out to get a little money until they can get the skills to earn better. The people who work entry level for years with no effort to move up are the ones that MOST conservatives have issues of feeling they "deserve to live in poverty" as you put it.
 
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Jesuscentered

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Income inequality in and of itself is good because the nature and responsibilities of different kinds of work are not equal. I should make more than a fast food worker, but I shouldn't make as much as a researcher at the top of his field or a CEO. Why? Because the researcher could likely do my job, but I likely could not do his. And not only could I not do the CEO's job, but the CEO's decisions affect the employment of hundreds if not thousands of people. If he screws up, his company goes under. If I screw up, only a few people are affected (outside of extenuating circumstances).

As Christians, we do not live the way in which Christ intended us to live. The early church lived as a community and shared all things in common, as where there was need. They did this NOT because they were persecuted (as so many like to say), but because it followed Jesus' teachings. It was about putting others first and obtaining humility. Paul explains why they lived this way in 2 Corinthians 8: 13-15...

"13 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. 14 At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, 15 as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”
 
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JoeP222w

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Very often we heard about complains about income inequality in the media. But is it really good or bad ?


Depends on what your understanding of income inequality is.

I believe that if you have the same exact qualifications, the same exact experience, the same exact education, the same exact amount of years, the same exact performance as someone else in the same exact job, you both should receive the same exact salary.

Since there is no real world situation that matches that, there are inequalities and it is not necessarily a bad thing, since no one is carbon copy of someone else.

In the sense should men get paid the same as women if they meet the criteria above, yes.

Should a fast food worker make the same as the CEO of a large business, absolutely not. Completely different jobs, completely different functions, completely different roles, completely different levels of responsibility.

The wealthy are not evil just because they are wealthy. The poor are not good just because they are poor. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. All mankind will be held accountable to God for what they did with the resources that God has granted them.

If you are an American, even the poorest of Americans, you are incredibly more wealthy than those in Third world nations. Even being on this forum, shows you have access to wealthy that the vast majority of people in the world don't have.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Depends on what your understanding of income inequality is.
And for "Christians", what is the Scriptural Principle - following Jesus ?

"Those who gathered much, had none left over; those who gathered little, had no lack"

for example.
 
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JackRT

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Income inequality on a personal level refers to 'equal pay for equal work' but there is a larger societal context where the rich and powerful control a disproportionately large percentage of the wealth of a nation and/or the world.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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We feel blessed for what God has given us on the mountain top here.

It's good to help ones in need -- if they are not to lazy to work.

I have a brother who earns 10 to 25 times what I make each year.
He gives none to me -- why should he give some to you?

M-Bob
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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We feel blessed for what God has given us on the mountain top here.

It's good to help ones in need -- if they are not to lazy to work.

M-Bob
What about someone with an ongoing violent temper ? (what's God's Word Say?)

Then clarify a little : If someone is (apparently) too lazy to work, how can they be helped, or what might be done for them, in terms of reconciliation ? (living as ministers of reconciliation) (or maybe healing/ restoration)
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Been working with the homeless for over 40 years.
They all get a couple of hundred dollars in food cards each month.
Here in CA if they put in a little work they can receive more in cash -- most all refuse.
Many (not all) wouldn't work if you gave them a job -- seen this played out many times.
M-Bob
 
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Sketcher

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As Christians, we do not live the way in which Christ intended us to live. The early church lived as a community and shared all things in common, as where there was need. They did this NOT because they were persecuted (as so many like to say), but because it followed Jesus' teachings. It was about putting others first and obtaining humility. Paul explains why they lived this way in 2 Corinthians 8: 13-15...

"13 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. 14 At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, 15 as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”
None of which contradicts what I said, nor addresses the concept of income equality or inequality. The church had some people who were earning more money than others, who in turn were expected to give more than others.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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From the posts in this thread it is clear that the vast majority of people have no idea what is meant by "income inequality" in terms of it being a problem in the US. People are clearly buying the ridiculous, ignorant notion that is put forth by radical right-wing big-mouths that "income inequality" is merely the fact that people don't have "equal" incomes; they position it as though the opposing view is absolute communism where everybody has "equal income", such as a supermarket cashier having the same income as a doctor. That's just stupid.

The problem of "income inequality" is not the absolute inequality of incomes but the scale of the inequality. It is a matter of the fact that the top tier of the wealthy are increasing in income proportionally greater than the bottom groups.

US Income Inequality on Rise for Decades is now Highest Since 1928

Does anyone know what happened when income inequality got that high in 1928? A little thing called "The Great Depression" - ring a bell?

From the article:
"In 1928, the top 1% of families received 23.9% of all pretax income, while the bottom 90% received 50.7%. But the Depression and World War II dramatically reshaped the nation’s income distribution: By 1944 the top 1%’s share was down to 11.3%, while the bottom 90% were receiving 67.5%, levels that would remain more or less constant for the next three decades.

But starting in the mid- to late 1970s, the uppermost tier’s income share began rising dramatically, while that of the bottom 90% started to fall. The top 1% took heavy hits from the dot-com crash and the Great Recession but recovered fairly quickly: Saez’s preliminary estimates for 2012 (which will be updated next month) have that group receiving nearly 22.5% of all pretax income, while the bottom 90%’s share is below 50% for the first time ever (49.6%, to be precise).

A century ago, Saez notes that the highest earners derived much of their income from earnings on the accumulated wealth of past generations. By contrast, “[t]he evidence suggests that top incomes earners today are…“working rich,” highly paid employees or new entrepreneurs who have not yet accumulated fortunes comparable to those accumulated during the Gilded Age.”

Americans aren’t unaware of these trends. More than half (61%) of Americans said the U.S. economic system favors the wealthy, while just 35% said it’s fair to most people, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted in March. A similar share (66%) of Americans said the gap between rich and poor had increased in the past five years; nearly three-quarters of respondents said the rich-poor gap was either a “very big” (47%) or “moderately big” (27%) problem."

If you're not in that top 1% and you think there is no income inequality problem then you are either ignorant or self-loathing.

And if you truly believe that when people complain about an "income inequality" problem that they mean they wish everyone had the same exact salary then you are extremely ignorant and/or gullible.

I work for a major Wall St. firm, right at their headquarters in Manhattan, and I know what's going on because I'm on the inside of one of the biggest Wall St. firms (we probably manage money for most of you). For the past 6+ years I have seen the Dow hit record after record, the US has rebounded from the recession in record fashion, and salaries have remained flat. What's the sense in that? What does that tell you? If you have any understanding of anything then it should tell you clearly that the record-breaking profits are being siphoned off to the top players in finance and not being re-invested into labor. That can only go on so long before there is a collapse. Our GDP is being wasted by being hoarded by the top tiers of the wealthy. It might as well be thrown down the toilet.


I see no one addressing this issue: flat wages.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Is income inequality good or bad ?

Neither. It doesn't even exist.

One's value is equal to the contribution he provides to society.
That's not how Jesus and The Bible define "one's value". But that's why capitalism ("money-ism", "mammon-ism") is at odds with God and His Word. That's why the Bible says that you cannot serve two masters and you will hate one and love the other; you cannot serve both God and mammon.

Income is a man-made construct based on valuing people monetarily. Even within that framework, collusion among employers renders income inequality based on the value of one's work/contribution. Money is not a completely fair and balanced measure and therefore yields an unfair valuation of people's work when it is manipulated to do so.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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I see no one addressing this issue: flat wages.
The proponents of income inequality do their best to avoid this topic because it would make the problem clear to everyone, if they saw it. That's why they distract by using their power in the media and government to spread an alternate, distracting message (or messages) such as that "income inequality" means a kind of communist system of everyone getting the exact same pay regardless of what work they do. Another one that worked for them for years was "trickle-down" or "voo-doo" economics which was more brazen in that it actually argued for money to be unequally distributed in favor of the wealthiest who would then spend it and it would "trickle down" to the less wealthy, the middle class, and poor.

It's amazing to me that what is so plain to see is still not known or understood by so many and we end up with comments like "well I don't think everyone should get the same pay, it depends on their job!" or even "there's no such thing as income inequality!"

Flat wages demonstrates clearly that the unwritten agreement that employers had with labor for decades has been broken and the employers are now choosing not to share in the success and earnings of their business but rather to keep it and hoard it all for themselves. This is why labor proponents always have argued for contracts, i.e. having labor-management agreements being written and enforceable rather than having it be an "unwritten rule", because now we see how easily those unwritten "rules" are broken.
 
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dayhiker

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I don't see a need for equality in income or wealth to within some single digit percent, but I do believe investors and CEOs types are taking much of the wealth that the lower income people are generating with their labor. To me this is legal stealing.
 
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lismore

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Very often we heard about complains about income inequality in the media. But is it really good or bad ?


Would a lot not depend on how the inequality came about? The bible talks a lot about not oppressing the poor and not defrauding a worker of their wages. Obviously then there is such a thing as oppression of the poor and defrauding workers of their wages. IMHO inequality based on such conduct would be very bad indeed. God Bless :wave:
 
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RedPonyDriver

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When people are working full time and still relying on government help to get by, there's something inherently wrong with the system. Someone working 40 hours a week should be able to support a family without government benefits. THAT is the issue with income inequality.
 
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