is Hillsong really a cult?

[Tenebrae]

well if your a "pagan " its not possible for you to comprehend the things of the Spirit . leaving you to believe anything negative you choose to believe .And God is never threatened .. all these things he has already said will come to pass "they shall gather together teacher unto their own ears" -
and if you really are a pagan .. then repent and be saved .

people make the error of thinking belief is based on evidence - but i choose to disbelieve that ... So it cannot be so .

Says the chap who is willfully choosing to ignore the evidence


Why would I want to worship a god who threatens people "worship me or I will sent you to hell"

Sort of reminds me of the domestically abusive husband who says "stay with me or I will kill you and our children'

 

[Alithis]

Says the chap who is willfully choosing to ignore the evidence


Why would I want to worship a god who threatens people "worship me or I will sent you to hell"

Sort of reminds me of the domestically abusive husband who says "stay with me or I will kill you and our children'

what evidence ?
you gave me evidence of a web site someone wrote stating that some one else is wrong ..
it proves nothing ..
do you forget that the lord Jesus told of the tares that would grow up among the wheat - and that at the last day he will reap a great harvest and he will sort the two out and the wheat he will gather into his barn and the tares he will gather to be burned .?

and do you not realize that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that all are destined for death whether they are good or bad .. but it is the love of God that has made a way for us to be saved . for our own works cannot achieve the righteousness of God .
he does not say worship me or your will be cast into hell fire .. he says "you are already being cast in ...- believe in me so i can save you from it .

the lord Jesus has made this way for us by the laying down of his own life..
it would be more appropriate for me to ask .. why should i believe "you" or your words - when did you ever lay down your life for me ? what hope do you offer me ?

 

[tgg]

I heard so many bad things about them, but I love their worship.

Don't be seduced by all the commercialism and glamourisation of it: Hillsong IS a cult.

 

[TheDag]

Don't be seduced by all the commercialism and glamourisation of it: Hillsong IS a cult.

Got any evidence for this claim? It is a church that has a leadership structure that basically follows the American business leadership structure. That does not make it a cult. Unless you can provide evidence then you are bearing false witness. As you said in your other thread we gotta point out where people are wrong.

 

[Bjornke]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

In my opinion I have never heard any bad word about Hillsong United. I know I love some of their songs, and some I do not. I think some songs boring or not very accurate but any and all bands have good and bad songs. As for bad report on Hillsong United? I have never heard of any but I do not go around looking for anything regarding them either. I see song, I click it, I listen, sounds good, I download it. When I say sounds good, I mean I like it personally and it is biblical, that is good for me.

Please brothers and sister,s do not expect churches or their members to be perfect! Do you not remember the teaching of Jesus, which one shall throw the first stone? Only you who has not sinned! Just how Jesus saved the adulteress from those wishing to stone her, please brothers and sisters, remember not to judge or cast stones, for all have sinned and all will sin again, even groups can sin. So if Hillsong has a few bad songs or a members has a few bad deeds, do not be the judge, let God be the judge. It is OK to tell them they are wrong, and help them, as the Apostle Paul has stated, but do not cast them down or judge them with contempt, as this is only God's job.

Blessings,

Brandon

 

[acousticsaint]

A good explanation of the christian view of what makes a cult is this -
Dr. Walter R. Martin states:
"A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone's interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ." (The Rise of the Cults, page 12).

As far as I am aware Brian Houston does not teach an incorrect christology regarding the hypostatic union...But he does teach prosperity gospel which is a major deviation from orthodox christianity. So with the label cult being qualified by the statement above I would say the Hillsong is a cult.

 

[TheDag]

A good explanation of the christian view of what makes a cult is this -
Dr. Walter R. Martin states:
"A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone's interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ." (The Rise of the Cults, page 12).

As far as I am aware Brian Houston does not teach an incorrect christology regarding the hypostatic union...But he does teach prosperity gospel which is a major deviation from orthodox christianity. So with the label cult being qualified by the statement above I would say the Hillsong is a cult.

In that case there is not a single Christian denomination that is not a cult. So sorry gotta disagree with the definition. Any church who condemns abortion has deviated from standard Christian teachings. According to churches in general abortion was not a sin when I was born. It was only late 70's early 80's that changed.
If you are going to use that definition above then you should only compare it to essential Christian beliefs. If you do that then by that definition Hillsong is not a cult. Wrong about prosperity doctrine. Yes. Cult? No. If you could get agreement on all Christian beliefs amongst every denominations official beliefs I would be prepared to accept it as a deviation from Christian doctrine. Otherwise it is going against biblical instruction to allow differences in non-essential doctrine.

 

[acousticsaint]

In that case there is not a single Christian denomination that is not a cult. So sorry gotta disagree with the definition. Any church who condemns abortion has deviated from standard Christian teachings. According to churches in general abortion was not a sin when I was born. It was only late 70's early 80's that changed.
If you are going to use that definition above then you should only compare it to essential Christian beliefs. If you do that then by that definition Hillsong is not a cult. Wrong about prosperity doctrine. Yes. Cult? No. If you could get agreement on all Christian beliefs amongst every denominations official beliefs I would be prepared to accept it as a deviation from Christian doctrine. Otherwise it is going against biblical instruction to allow differences in non-essential doctrine.

What are the orthodox doctrines? Have a look in the different Protestant confessions and creeds, there are thousands of churches who adhere to the major protestant confessions. The prosperity gospel is a serious deviation from orthodoxy.

Hillsong is a cult in that context however the Reformed Baptist church down the road is likely not.

 

[TheDag]

What are the orthodox doctrines? Have a look in the different Protestant confessions and creeds, there are thousands of churches who adhere to the major protestant confessions. The prosperity gospel is a serious deviation from orthodoxy.

Hillsong is a cult in that context however the Reformed Baptist church down the road is likely not.

prosperity doctrine is not an essential doctrine. So either compare on the basis of essential doctrine or as I said earlier if you use non-essential doctrine then every Christian denomination is a cult. You can't have it both ways.

 

[ebia]

According to churches in general abortion was not a sin when I was born. .

What?

 

[TheDag]

What?

the current view of churches with regards to abortion only came into existence in the very late 70's or early 80's. Before that many well known Christians including people like Billy Graham & J I Packer had stated publicly that abortion was not wrong. There was no condemnation from anyone when that view was expressed because it was only influence from certain groups that changed it. The same groups who also declared AIDS was a punishment from God against homosexuals. The traditional Jewish view and therefore the traditional Christian view is that life begins with the first breath. This comes from Genesis where Adam came to life when God breathed on him. I know that view disappeared from Christian churches now but that was the view for a long time.

 

[ebia]

the current view of churches with regards to abortion only came into existence in the very late 70's or early 80's. Before that many well known Christians including people like Billy Graham & J I Packer had stated publicly that abortion was not wrong. There was no condemnation from anyone when that view was expressed because it was only influence from certain groups that changed it. The same groups who also declared AIDS was a punishment from God against homosexuals. The traditional Jewish view and therefore the traditional Christian view is that life begins with the first breath. This comes from Genesis where Adam came to life when God breathed on him. I know that view disappeared from Christian churches now but that was the view for a long time.

Sorry, but there has a widespread Christian view that abortion is wrong from the first century onwards. What you are seeing as the norm was more of a blip.

 

[TheDag]

I accept that is your opinion. However it is fact that it was the traditional Jewish view and despite Jesus correcting/clarifying several jewish beliefs that they had wrong he did not comment on this one. The view has been around for long time. Certainly longer than the abortion is wrong view.

 

[ebia]

I accept that is your opinion. However it is fact that it was the traditional Jewish view and despite Jesus correcting/clarifying several jewish beliefs that they had wrong he did not comment on this one. The view has been around for long time. Certainly longer than the abortion is wrong view.

I didn't comment on Jewish beliefs.

 

[TheDag]

I didn't comment on Jewish beliefs.

many traditional jewish beliefs are also Christian traditional beliefs. I guess you can claim the ten commandments do not apply to Christians ever if you like. One needs to remember that the Jews were supposed to be Christians. Sure they got some things wrong like not believing Jesus is the messiah but they didn't get everything wrong. Jewish beliefs also formed the basis for Christian beliefs. Even in the NT we very much see people talking about their belief in Christ as Jewish belief. It was only later that Christian and Jews became separate terms.

Fact is the current attitude* towards abortion only came into being in very late 70's or more likely early 80's.

*By current attitude I mean the view that you can not be a Christian and support abortion. I never denied abortion is wrong view did not exist but rather just claimed it is only very recent that it has been changed into the only acceptable view. The view changed when certain right wing Christian groups became influential. Before that it was a view that would fall under disputable matters category.

 

[ebia]

many traditional jewish beliefs are also Christian traditional beliefs. I guess you can claim the ten commandments do not apply to Christians ever if you like. One needs to remember that the Jews were supposed to be Christians. Sure they got some things wrong like not believing Jesus is the messiah but they didn't get everything wrong. Jewish beliefs also formed the basis for Christian beliefs. Even in the NT we very much see people talking about their belief in Christ as Jewish belief. It was only later that Christian and Jews became separate terms.

Fact is the current attitude* towards abortion only came into being in very late 70's or more likely early 80's.

*By current attitude I mean the view that you can not be a Christian and support abortion. I never denied abortion is wrong view did not exist but rather just claimed it is only very recent that it has been changed into the only acceptable view. The view changed when certain right wing Christian groups became influential. Before that it was a view that would fall under disputable matters category.

You'd have to show that there was a wide variety of accepted opinion. The Catholic Church has always held abortion to be wrong - no options. The reason it was widely illegal until recently is because the church has universally said its wrong.

It's become a big issue recently because only recently has there been much debate about it.

I suspect you are in danger of confusing a variety of opinion on when "ensoulment" occurs, with debate about whether abortion is acceptable. But those two haven't historically gone together.

 

[Wookiee]

Yes. Hillsong Church Watch

Before all the reflex ''you're judgemental blah blah...." responses read it for yourself. It is an *objective* information resource offensive to only Charismaniacs (if it feels good it must be from God, don't question the source of those feelings) NOT truth-seekers.

I've had encounters with the guy that I am very confident runs both that site, and another one for C3 Church. He comes off as bitter and has a tendency to attack anyone who disagrees with him in a very un-Christian like manner (in some instances to severely question their salvation). He himself posted some rather alarming theology on his own Facebook.

I do agree a lot of mega Churches have a huge focus on money, and they would have their misses with theology, but I would never go as far to call them a "cult" or "evil".

 

[marktheblake]

Its a laugh that every objection about Hillsong seems be all about the money. If you do not want to tithe your money to Hillsong, then don't, there is no need to come up with the ridiculous excuses why not. I dont give them any money myself, but why would I, I do what Ps Brian teaches at the Hillsong conferences - support your local church.

I think it is fantastic that we have such a influential independent church in Australia and moreso that it reaches world wide with their music.

I like Brian Houstons teaching, but I do not worship him. He is just a man like me, taller but I still have more hair. The word cult is usually associated with idolising the leader and there are plenty of those.

 

[TheDag]

I think it is fantastic that we have such a influential independent church in Australia and moreso that it reaches world wide with their music.

It is not independent. It is part of the AOG denomination which is set up to model the American business model. So when there was fighting between two AOG televangelists they looked for a strong leader they could rally behind and that was hillsong. They are still part of the denomination though.

 

[Humble Pie]

Darlene sings like an angel but don't give them any money, they will sell you their worship music in Christian bookstores so they don't need extra money from you. They were once associated with Mercy Ministries which got a bad rap in the press. That's all I know about them.