Is Hell Really Eternal?

[donfish06]

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

for ever and ever:
G165
αἰών
aiōn
ahee-ohn'
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

The Greek word here actually means and age... They shall be tormented day and night for ages and ages. (reference of time, not eternity)

Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Here "for ever" meant 3 days and 3 nights

Deu 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever

Here it means 10 generations

1Sa 1:22 But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the LORD, and there abide for ever.

Here it is however long Hannah will live. (see also Exo 21:6)

56 times in the Bible "for ever" refers to something that has already ended.


Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Gen_17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

... didn't Israel go 1500 years (?) without possessing their land?

Lev_16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Where is this statue today?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

perish:
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Note that perish means to be completely destroyed. If those who believe in Jesus will NOT perish, that means that those who don't WILL perish, be completely destroyed.

Ezekiel 18:4,20 both state that a soul that sins shall die. DIE, not rot in hell for eternity.

Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

This is completely contradictory to an "eternal punishment"

Funny, wasn't Satan the first one to try to convince that sinners wouldn't really die? (Gen 3:4) If hell is eternal where no one will perish, that would mean that Satan told the truth and that God lied when he told Eve that she would "surely die"

Now Let's Talk About Justice

Would you consider it "just" for God to punish someone for ETERNITY for such a minuscule time on Earth? So making the wrong decision in 60-80 yrs of life will justly grant you punishment BEYOND millions and billions of years?

Would you consider it "just" for Adolf Hitler to get the same punishment as someone who never killed and was a "good" person?

1)How could a "just" God punish for eternity?

2)Where do we see evidence of an eternal hell (or punishment) in the scriptures? (hint: hell isn't even the lake of fire (Rev 20:14))


I believe the lost will be cast into hell for a TIME. After that time is up, they will be destroyed.

side note: to me, "Eternal Hell" sounds like something made up by a church to scare people into believing

 

[timewerx]

Death is an everlasting punishment...

For example:

Adolf Hitler died on April 1945...

If Adolf Hitler was unsaved, he'll also be dead on October 1945, he'll be dead in the year 1976, also dead today. Hitler will still be dead in the year 20000013 (not a typo!). I don't wish to claim that Adolf Hitler is unsaved since history in that period is not reliable.

Death is a permanent / everlasting condition - there's far more instances in the Bible supporting this case as the everlasting punishment for the unsaved, NOT eternal torture being burnt alive and never dying.

There's only case we humans (not the beast, nor the antichrist) in the Bible spent a considerable time in distress in hell. Ironically, it's not even a direct teaching but a parable (parable of the rich man and Lazarus)

 

[MikeBigg]

I believe the lost will be cast into hell for a TIME. After that time is up, they will be destroyed.

That's pretty sick, if you ask me.

I believe all will ultimately be saved. After all, that's what God wants to happen. (1 Tim 2: 4).

It won't be easy ... some people have done some really evil stuff ... but, if anyone can bring reconciliation God can. And I don't mean only reconciliation between a person and God, but also person to person. Forgiveness of those who have hurt you can be a tough thing to do.

side note: to me, "Eternal Hell" sounds like something made up by a church to scare people into believing

Me too. That is never a good way to enter a relationship. Being bowled over by His love, kindness and grace is much better.

Regards,

Mike

 

[ananda]

I believe that there is no progression of time in eternity (heaven & hell).

 

[Hoshiyya]

I believe that there is no progression of time in eternity (heaven & hell).

So how could Satan be cast out of heaven, or how could a conversation (as between God and Satan as recorded in Job) be had ?

 

[Der Alte]

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

for ever and ever:
G165
αἰών
aiōn
ahee-ohn'
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

The Greek word here actually means and age... They shall be tormented day and night for ages and ages. (reference of time, not eternity)

As you can see the Strong's definition also includes "eternal, evermore, forever, world without end." If you are correct I guess God only lives for a few ages.

Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:​

Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Here "for ever" meant 3 days and 3 nights

Right, let us base our theology on the frantic, panicked cries of a man on the verge of death.

Deu 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever

Here it means 10 generations

That is not what it says

1Sa 1:22 But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the LORD, and there abide for ever.

Here it is however long Hannah will live. (see also Exo 21:6)

Hannah viewed her marriage as eternal. You got a problem with that?

56 times in the Bible "for ever" refers to something that has already ended.

Got scripture? How many times does it refer to God and or his kingdom?

Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Many in Jesus audience did not believe in the resurrection, such as the Sadducees. They knew that everyone died, without exception, no punishment involved. They would have understood eternal punishment as something they would experience for as long as the righteous were living.

Gen_17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

... didn't Israel go 1500 years (?) without possessing their land?

Lev_16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.Where is this statue today?

Did God ever revoke either one of these?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

perish:
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Note that perish means to be completely destroyed. If those who believe in Jesus will NOT perish, that means that those who don't WILL perish, be completely destroyed.

The word Appolumi you are relying on to mean "completely destroyed" occurs 86 times in the NT, of this 71 , 83%, cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which supposedly occurs at the final judgment. Here are the predominant meanings of the word Appolumi.

(1) ruin, (2) do not bring about his ruin, (3) put to death, the wicked tenants, (4) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death, (5) destroy the wisdom of the wise, (6) destroy the understanding, (7) lose, (8) lose the reward, (9) lose what we have worked for, (10) lose one’s life, (11) lose oneself, (12) The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’), (13) ruined, (14) die, the man dies, (15) As a cry of anguish, we are perishing!, (16) of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer, (17) die by the sword, (18) die of hunger, (19) be corrupted, (20) killed by the snakes, (21) those who are lost, (22) of things be lost, (23) pass away, (24) be ruined, (26) of bursting wineskins, (25) fading beauty, (26) transitory beauty of gold, (27) passing splendor, (28) Of earthly food, (29) spoiled honey, (30) Of falling hair, (31) a member or organ of the body, (32) remnants of food, (33) of wine that has lost its flavor, (34) of sheep gone astray, (35) Of a lost son [that returned].​

Ezekiel 18:4,20 both state that a soul that sins shall die. DIE, not rot in hell for eternity.

The wages of sin is death. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. It is appointed unto man once to die, after that the judgement. Get the picture?

Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

This is completely contradictory to an "eternal punishment"

Same ol' same ol' out-of-context proof texts. This has nothing to do with the final state of the wicked. It refers to the enemies of Israel in their battles.

Psa 37:1 <A Psalm of David.> Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither.
. . .
Psa 37:14-15
(14) The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
(15) Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.​

Funny, wasn't Satan the first one to try to convince that sinners wouldn't really die? (Gen 3:4) If hell is eternal where no one will perish, that would mean that Satan told the truth and that God lied when he told Eve that she would "surely die"

The wages of sin is death. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. It is appointed unto man once to die, after that the judgement. Get the picture?

Now Let's Talk About Justice

Would you consider it "just" for God to punish someone for ETERNITY for such a minuscule time on Earth? So making the wrong decision in 60-80 yrs of life will justly grant you punishment BEYOND millions and billions of years?

Would you consider it "just" for Adolf Hitler to get the same punishment as someone who never killed and was a "good" person?

1)How could a "just" God punish for eternity?

Do you presume to speak for God and substitute your finite, fallible human reasoning for God's infinite, infallible reasoning for His on what is or is not "justice?"

Isa 55:8-9
(8) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
(9) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

2)Where do we see evidence of an eternal hell (or punishment) in the scriptures? (hint: hell isn't even the lake of fire (Rev 20:14))

Wrong! Death is the point in time cessation of life, it has no physical presence and cannot be thrown anywhere. Death does not have life it has not died a first death and cannot die a second death. Hell could be the grave or the the place of punishment, it could be thrown into the LOF but it too is not alive it did not die a first death and cannot die a second death. There is a scriptural answer. The angel of death and his companion "hell" are thrown into the LOF and their power to kill ended. This death cannot refer to the end of life that everyone experiences because the angel of death only has power over 1/4th of the earth.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.​

I believe the lost will be cast into hell for a TIME. After that time is up, they will be destroyed.

Got scripture?

side note: to me, "Eternal Hell" sounds like something made up by a church to scare people into believing

The usual handful of out-of-context verses and innuendo. If it was something made up by the church how is it that Jews before and at the time of Jesus believed in hell where the unrighteous were tormented in fire unto eternity?

Jewish Encyclopedia, GEHENNA

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.]

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).

But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). " The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

Jewish Encyclopedia Online​

 

[ananda]

So how could Satan be cast out of heaven, or how could a conversation (as between God and Satan as recorded in Job) be had ?

Do these events require time?

 

[Hoshiyya]

Do these events require time?

Yes. Satan either is there or not. He was there, but is there no longer. As for a conversation, you know yourself that it is so. I said something, then you said something, now I write this. Thereafter you will read and perhaps reply. Ein Schwei.

 

[donfish06]

As you can see the Strong's definition also includes "eternal, evermore, forever, world without end." If you are correct I guess God only lives for a few ages.

Yes, it is used for both a period of time and for eternity. My point is, looking at the rest of the scriptures I showed, that in this case it is NOT eternity. "a soul that sinneth shall die"... to be eternally tormented you would have to have eternal life. You can't torment something that is dead. JESUS is the only way to eternal life.

Right, let us base our theology on the frantic, panicked cries of a man on the verge of death.

Clearly I did not use this ONE occurrence to base this idea on. It is used with multiple others which you saw.

That is not what it says

What does it say?

Hannah viewed her marriage as eternal. You got a problem with that?

Hannah is talking about Samuel remaining at the "temple" or wherever Eli lived. NOTHING to do with her marriage?

Got scripture? How many times does it refer to God and or his kingdom?

I just gave you scripture you just don't want to see it.

Did God ever revoke either one of these?

Is the statue still standing?

The wages of sin is death. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. It is appointed unto man once to die, after that the judgement. Get the picture?

Ezekiel 18:4 and v 20 says that a SOUL that sins shall die. The soul doesn't die when the flesh dies.

Same ol' same ol' out-of-context proof texts. This has nothing to do with the final state of the wicked. It refers to the enemies of Israel in their battles.

Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.​

He is talking about those waiting upon the Lord INHERITING the earth. When does that happen??? After judgement. THEN for a little while longer, and the wicked should not be.

Do you presume to speak for God and substitute your finite, fallible human reasoning for God's infinite, infallible reasoning for His on what is or is not "justice?"

God's law was eye for eye, not burn eternally for taking someones eye.

Got scripture?

Do YOU have scripture? What is your scriptural proof of eternal hell?

I know what your "proof" is. It is verses that say "for ever" and "everlasting"

All I am saying is that you can not use that as PROOF seeing how it does not mean eternal every time it is used.

The usual handful of out-of-context verses and innuendo. If it was something made up by the church how is it that Jews before and at the time of Jesus believed in hell where the unrighteous were tormented in fire unto eternity?

Not ONE time is the word eternal associated with hell. There is a reason that the word is translated to "for ever" and "eternal" on separate occasions. They never used "eternal" in reference to hell

 

[SharonL]

Hell l- Lake of Fire - fire consumes - second death - gone forever - non-existent - that is punishment forever and forever.

 

[circuitrider]

The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment: Edward Fudge: 9780595143429: Amazon.com: Books

The above is a good book on this very topic. The author argues as some of you have above that never ended punishment ends up being unjust punishment. Also the metaphor of fire leads one to think that the thing being burned is consumed. It is the consumption or burning of the object that would lead to the torment. If the fire doesn't consume then it doesn't burn the object.

There are also a number Scriptures that the author points to that show that the idea of eternal suffering in hell may not be supported by all scripture references.

I tend to believe that Annihilationism is more Biblical than the classic views of hell we get mostly from Dante's Inferno rather than the Bible.

 

[donfish06]

Here is your scripture

"Forever" is NEVER used in the Bible. It's "for ever"

Our idea of the word is off skew from its original meaning. "ever" is an age.

Exo_21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. ​

So he is a slave/servant to his master in heaven (or hell) too? Not eternal...

Exo_32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
​

They went 1500 yrs without their inheritance. It won't be here when the earth is destroyed. Not eternal...

Lev_25:30 And if it be not redeemed within the space of a full year, then the house that is in the walled city shall be established for ever to him that bought it throughout his generations: it shall not go out in the jubile. ​

Clearly NO city is eternal (until the new Jerusalem) ... Not eternal...

Lev_25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour. ​

Deu_4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.​

Our days on the earth are eternal??

Deu_15:17 Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise. ​

Deu_23:6 Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever.
​

Jos_4:7 Then ye shall answer them, That the waters of Jordan were cut off before the ark of the covenant of the LORD; when it passed over Jordan, the waters of Jordan were cut off: and these stones shall be for a memorial unto the children of Israel for ever​

.

Jos_14:9 And Moses sware on that day, saying, Surely the land whereon thy feet have trodden shall be thine inheritance, and thy children's for ever, because thou hast wholly followed the LORD my God.

1Sa_1:22 But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the LORD, and there abide for ever.
​

1Sa_2:35 And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever. ​

1Sa_13:13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.

2Sa_7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Ezr_9:12 Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever.​

Dan_3:9 They spake and said to the king Nebuchadnezzar, O king, live for ever.​

Did they really mean "live eternally" or did they mean "live long"?

Phm 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; ​

 

[Der Alte]

Hell l- Lake of Fire - fire consumes - second death - gone forever - non-existent - that is punishment forever and forever.

Fire consumes? What happened to the bush in Exodus 3? What happened to the three young Hebrews in the furnace in Daniel? If God wants something to burn forever, it will burn forever.

 

[Der Alte]

Here is your scripture

"Forever" is NEVER used in the Bible. It's "for ever"

Our idea of the word is off skew from its original meaning. "ever" is an age.

Exo_21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

So he is a slave/servant to his master in heaven (or hell) too? Not eternal...

Exo_32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

They went 1500 yrs without their inheritance. It won't be here when the earth is destroyed. Not eternal...

Lev_25:30 And if it be not redeemed within the space of a full year, then the house that is in the walled city shall be established for ever to him that bought it throughout his generations: it shall not go out in the jubile.
Clearly NO city is eternal (until the new Jerusalem) ... Not eternal...

Lev_25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

Deu_4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Our days on the earth are eternal??

Deu_15:17 Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise.
Deu_23:6 Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever.

Jos_4:7 Then ye shall answer them, That the waters of Jordan were cut off before the ark of the covenant of the LORD; when it passed over Jordan, the waters of Jordan were cut off: and these stones shall be for a memorial unto the children of Israel for ever
.
Jos_14:9 And Moses sware on that day, saying, Surely the land whereon thy feet have trodden shall be thine inheritance, and thy children's for ever, because thou hast wholly followed the LORD my God.

1Sa_1:22 But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the LORD, and there abide for ever.

1Sa_2:35 And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.
1Sa_13:13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.

2Sa_7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Ezr_9:12 Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever.

Dan_3:9 They spake and said to the king Nebuchadnezzar, O king, live for ever.
Did they really mean "live eternally" or did they mean "live long"?

Phm 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;

Right! Let's ignore the primary meaning because the word is sometimes used hyberbolically.

You claimed that the word translated for ever is used for something temporary or already ended 56 times. The Hebrew word translated for ever is &#1506;&#1500;&#1501; or &#1506;&#1493;&#1500;&#1501; it occurs 414 times in the OT. That means 87% of the time it means eternal such as in Gen 3:22.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever [&#1506;&#1500;&#1501;]:​

H5769 &#1506;&#1500;&#1501; &#1506;&#1493;&#1500;&#1501; &#8219;o&#770;la&#770;m &#8219;o&#770;la&#770;m o-lawm', o-lawm'

From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.​

 

[he-man]

Fire consumes? What happened to the bush in Exodus 3? What happened to the three young Hebrews in the furnace in Daniel? If God wants something to burn forever, it will burn forever.

Deleted

 

[Hoshiyya]

Yes, it is used for both a period of time and for eternity. My point is, looking at the rest of the scriptures I showed, that in this case it is NOT eternity. "a soul that sinneth shall die"... to be eternally tormented you would have to have eternal life. You can't torment something that is dead. JESUS is the only way to eternal life.



Clearly I did not use this ONE occurrence to base this idea on. It is used with multiple others which you saw.



What does it say?



Hannah is talking about Samuel remaining at the "temple" or wherever Eli lived. NOTHING to do with her marriage?



I just gave you scripture you just don't want to see it.



Is the statue still standing?



Ezekiel 18:4 and v 20 says that a SOUL that sins shall die. The soul doesn't die when the flesh dies.

Same ol' same ol' out-of-context proof texts. This has nothing to do with the final state of the wicked. It refers to the enemies of Israel in their battles.

Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.​

He is talking about those waiting upon the Lord INHERITING the earth. When does that happen??? After judgement. THEN for a little while longer, and the wicked should not be.



God's law was eye for eye, not burn eternally for taking someones eye.



Do YOU have scripture? What is your scriptural proof of eternal hell?

I know what your "proof" is. It is verses that say "for ever" and "everlasting"

All I am saying is that you can not use that as PROOF seeing how it does not mean eternal every time it is used.



Not ONE time is the word eternal associated with hell. There is a reason that the word is translated to "for ever" and "eternal" on separate occasions. They never used "eternal" in reference to hell

I may add:
Whereas God and the eternal life are said to be "without end" and "shall never end" and so on, Hell is never described as such, but rather described by a term that is also used to describe Jonah's 3-day stay in the whale.

 

[Hoshiyya]

"Forever" is NEVER used in the Bible. It's "for ever"

Our idea of the word is off skew from its original meaning. "ever" is an age.

Indeed, the age of the Millennial kingdom is the focus of the Bible.
There is an age coming after that, which is seldom discussed. In the Millennium, it will probably be elaborated upon by the Messiah.

 

[Der Alte]

I may add:
Whereas God and the eternal life are said to be "without end" and "shall never end" and so on, Hell is never described as such, but rather described by a term that is also used to describe Jonah's 3-day stay in the whale.

Wrong! The only thing described as "Johah's 3-day stay in the whale" is Jesus' three days "in the heart of the earth."

The word "eternal" may or may not be associated with hell in the Bible but that is a logical fallacy, argument from silence. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I wonder if &#964;&#959;&#965;&#962; &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#945;&#962; &#964;&#969;&#957; &#945;&#953;&#969;&#957;&#969;&#957;/for ever and ever means something different in Rev 20:10, 14:11 than it does in the other 4 verses in Rev?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,​

 

[he-man]

Wrong! The only thing described as "Johah's 3-day stay in the whale" is Jesus' three days "in the heart of the earth."

You mean HELL!
Yep, those that teach a false doctrine of an eternity of physical torture will be paying the penalty of eternal destruction and will be as extinct creatures.
"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away" (Ps. 37:20).

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be: and let them know that God ruleth in Jacob unto the ends of the earth. Selah" (Ps. 59:13).

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more" (Ps. 104:35).

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed" (Is. 1:28).

"Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel" (Is. 5:24).

"Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day; And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth" (Is. 10:16-18).

"For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off" (Is. 29:20).
"For our God is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29).

 

[ananda]

Yes. Satan either is there or not. He was there, but is there no longer. As for a conversation, you know yourself that it is so. I said something, then you said something, now I write this. Thereafter you will read and perhaps reply. Ein Schwei.

I disagree; I believe events can occur simultaneously in the spiritual plane, but recorded in a form so man could understand it in terms of time.