Is heaven a place we go to after death or is it a present reality?

[Sky]

This can't be the New Jerusalem. If it is, then why is there still death? The Bible distinctly says that there will be no death in the New Jerusalem.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (2Peter 1:20)

 

[drmmjr]

Franklin,

You mention:

The rapture isn't taught in scripture, that is man invention.... The judgement day you are referring to is according to scripture known as "the day of the Lord"... the tribulation is past, it is part of the Judgement of national Israel in AD70, we are presently living in the New Jerusalem, the new heaven and earth, the New Covenant eternal age that has no last days and no end.

Lets look at the following verses:

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

If what you say is has come to pass, then explain the following:

1 - New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven. (verse 2) Where is this New Jerusalem thats 12000 furlongs (approx. 1500 miles) square, as high as it is wide. With walls of Jasper, foundations of precious stones. (Rev 21:16-19) I certainly haven't seen anything like this.

2 - God would be dwelling with us, God himself should be with us and be our God. (verse 3) Is God himself dwelling with us? Do we see Him?

3 - There shall be no more death, neather sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain (verse 4) The last time I checked, people were still dying, people were still sorrowing, people were still crying, and people were still in pain.

The Second coming of Jesus is yet to happen. When it does, then we shall be in the Kingdom.

 

[franklin]

Heaven is a Present Reality

Romans 8:10, "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead [the body of sin, the old man] because of sin; but the Spirit is life [the spiritual body, the new man] because of righteousness."
This verse says if we have Christ in us, then we have the Spirit in us, and if we have the Spirit in us, then we have eternal life in us! This is what Paul meant in Romans 10:6 when he explained that the meaning of the phrase "ascend into heaven" means to "bring Christ down from above." If we have Christ in us, we are in heaven! Therefore, heaven is a present reality now, and not a future hope. Heaven is within us!  Is this reason enough to rejoice?! It should be!

As a final proof that heaven is a present reality now, notice these words of Jesus. When speaking of the Kingdom of God in this passage, he explained both where it is and when it is. Notice he spoke of the Kingdom of God in the present tense, and not the future tense.

Luke 17:21, "...for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Matthew 12:28, "...the kingdom of God is come unto you."

Even the apostle John wrote that he was "in the kingdom...of Jesus Christ" (Revelation 1:9); notice he spoke of the kingdom in the present tense, as if it was inside of him.

The reason the Kingdom of God is within us is because God dwells within us! (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19-20, 2 Corinthians 6:16, Revelation 21:3).

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (2Peter 1:20)

 

[Chloe]

HEAVEN IS NOT A PRESENT REALITY, EXCEPT TO THOSE WHO ARE THERE IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD.   

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Chloe
HEAVEN IS NOT A PRESENT REALITY, EXCEPT TO THOSE WHO ARE THERE IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD.   

Chole, Your not in God's presence now?  "...for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21)

Do you have eternal life now or do you have to wait until you die to have it?  Think!   "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

Eternal life does not mean we become immortal (to live for ever and ever), it means to know God, and to know His Truth! In this life!  

Oh and souljah, you've already quoted 2Peter 1:20 more then once, quite being so childish and redundant! Your beginning to appear like a troll! Besides, 2Peter 1:20 is in my signature anyway and that is what I do my best to abide by.  If you have something to contribute to the discussion, by all means do so.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Oh and souljah, you've already quoted 2Peter 1:20 more then once, quite being so childish and redundant! Your beginning to appear like a troll! Besides, 2Peter 1:20 is in my signature anyway and that is what I do my best to abide by. If you have something to contribute to the discussion, by all means do so.

But you are being a hypocrite. It is your signature, yet, you want to interpret scipture yourself, don't you?

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by s0uljah
But you are being a hypocrite. It is your signature, yet, you want to interpret scipture yourself, don't you?

souljah, I'm not going to allow this thread to break out into a petty little argument as you are trying so hard to do as is very evident by your attitude and the name calling you are resorting to.  If you are accusing me of being a hypocrite and iterpreting scripture privately, then you show me the scriptures that back up your thinking, which is something you have not demonstrated in this thread. So far the only thing you have been demonstrating is your immaturity. That is all I have to say to you at this time.  Unless you can come up with something that will contribute to this discussion with a more intelligent manner.    

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Actually I said you were being a hypocrite, not that you "are" a hypocrite, as I am confident that you can do much better.

And I have shown you scripture, but if give you more, won't we be violating your verse in your signature?