Is heaven a desirable place to go to?

[-Luca]

Technically, God should love birds more than humans. They've been around for ~100 million years (compared to our ~200,000) and conservative estimates are that there's 7 birds for every human.

But birds do not have a spirit. A soul, sure. But they have no personality, no individuality. Whereas with us, we can get to know God on a personal level.

 

[awitch]

But birds do not have a spirit. A soul, sure. But they have no personality, no individuality. Whereas with us, we can get to know God on a personal level.

That's birdist.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Can someone provide a description of heaven that isn't simile or metaphor?
If you want to describe the Grand Canyon to someone, you don't say "It's like being in an empty dish washer with your uncle"

All explanations of anything is just simile and metaphor. If I had never been to the Grand Canyon, you could explain it as "looking off a cliff, just really big", or refer to things I do know. Even if people were visting heaven, they would still have to use metaphor and simile to explain it to those who had not.

 

[dlamberth]

Heaven for Baha'is means nearness to God... it doesn't have to be a locale or place.. could be anywhere.

What does "nearness to God" mean?

 

[dlamberth]

But birds do not have a spirit. A soul, sure. But they have no personality, no individuality.

Birds have soul, they have spirit, they also have personality and individuality. If you have ever lived with one you would know how true that is.

 

[awitch]

All explanations of anything is just simile and metaphor. If I had never been to the Grand Canyon, you could explain it as "looking off a cliff, just really big", or refer to things I do know. Even if people were visting heaven, they would still have to use metaphor and simile to explain it to those who had not.

I realized that my explanation of the Summerlands was also simile, so that's embarrassing.

 

[jacknife]

But birds do not have a spirit. A soul, sure. But they have no personality, no individuality. Whereas with us, we can get to know God on a personal level.

Birds actually do have personality's.

 

[Rajni]

I actually like the Summerlands concept. From what I've read about it, it even incorporates the concept of having the option to reincarnate, something that would definitely break up the perceived monotony of eternity in a blissful location.

 

[-Luca]

Birds actually do have personality's.

Of course they do.

 

[Noxot]

Heaven for Baha'is means nearness to God... it doesn't have to be a locale or place.. could be anywhere.

true but having a body such as this is really annoying sometimes. not to mention that if i'm around others who are in hell then heaven does not feel quite like it should.

also my body is a kind of restrain on my spirit and I know that it serves as a kind of protection and cap so we can develop in certain ways but some of those restraints go away when you die for instance people won't be what they are due to the coercion of others in the next age ( in certain ways). there are less "animal rules/adaptations of survival" in the next life.

language is another factor that though fun can also be annoying. in heaven we understand being more clearly rather than having to depend on uncertain though useful functions such as language and facial expressions.

basically the next age ( or the other world) is an upgrade of our reality and body. it's a more soul based reality based on our own individual spirit rather than merely a collective universe with rules we play by when we became creatures. but when I say "individual" people might get a bad idea. but as long as people are good we are part of the body of heaven and organized in a perfect manner to be where we all want to be... except I think many of us will still struggle with soul/spirit issues and so our soul has to be fully awake which is probably the first thing people start to do when they go to the other world since they will be going through an important transition when they die.

this already happens with our spirit but nevertheless the body and this universe we are developing in acts as part of that spiritual reality and this universe has more irrational freedom in it where some humans believe they are just creatures and they do bad things to others like beat people up and rob them or create systems of life in a limited way since we have accepted the challenge to be in this universe.

 

[Noxot]

But birds do not have a spirit. A soul, sure. But they have no personality, no individuality. Whereas with us, we can get to know God on a personal level.

I would not be so sure about that. it is pretty obvious that dogs have a personality and birds seem to too. I would bet that even spiders do, it's just not exactly as a human personality is. what is personality but complex order? and then going further you could say that personality becomes conscious. I think many animals already share in both those features. even my childhood pet hairless rat seemed to be conscious... but probably not as conscious as humans.

there is no difference in spirit and soul even though spirit could be thought of as a higher manifestation of such a reality. souls act as the feminine aspect, being a container or a crystallization.

animals worship God by simply existing (seems personal to me and we do that too). I guess we are different in that we can abstract more and think about more things. but that means we can willfully do evil to others. that is the crap thing about being smart, we learn of the possibility of maliciousness. animals might be too ignorant to create sophisticated evils.

so I guess in general humans have more responsibility or capacity for God than the animals and I guess that means we have the potential to be more intimate with God due to our various capacities.

 

[MehGuy]

It seems to me a lot of the ideas I hear about what the Christian haven will be like seems generally unappealing to me. I've heard it as place to sing praise and become one with God (which sounds horrible), I've heard it as a place where all sin is removed and we can live forever with our loved ones. But if you removed all your sinful desires will you even be the same person anymore. Sounds like living for eternity as a tree or robot not something I really want. Heck forever is a really long time would you ever want to live forever?
What are some of your thoughts? or what are some of your ideas of how the Christian heaven is like.

Growing up I was taught that heaven is a place where you feel permanent blissful emotions for eternity. Sounds fine by me. Even if you're praising God all the time you'll be happy and enjoy it. You can't help but be in a permanent state of happiness. You will not capable of being bored or finding the concept of eternity horrible.

 

[Noxot]

Growing up I was taught that heaven is a place where you feel permanent blissful emotions for eternity. Sounds fine by me. Even if you're praising God all the time you'll be happy and enjoy it. You can't help but be in a permanent state of happiness. You will not capable of being bored or finding the concept of eternity horrible.

reminds me of

 

[Niblo]

Can someone provide a description of heaven that isn't simile or metaphor?
If you want to describe the Grand Canyon to someone, you don't say "It's like being in an empty dish washer with your uncle"

Wales!

 

[Zoness]

Wales!

Having never (hopefully someday) been to Wales, I think Britain as a whole has the climate that I was built for!

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

How can seeing the face of eternity and goodness which is everlasting and never expires possibly be bad, boring or insufficient?

 

[Niblo]

Having never (hopefully someday) been to Wales, I think Britain as a whole has the climate that I was built for!

You’d be most welcome.

Brits love to whinge about the weather; but all-in-all we have very little to complain about.

It tends to rain a fair bit in certain parts, and Wales is one of these. My grandfather used to point at one of the mountains (hills, really!) that dominated our part of the Rhondda Valley and say: ‘If you can see Graig-y-Ddelw it’s going to rain. If you can’t see it, it’s raining!’

Graig-y-Ddelw (Rock of the Image). The story is that when (in the early 1900s) local men were digging for coal in the mountain’s side they discovered a granite image of one of the Celtic gods (don’t know which one); hence ‘Graig-y-Ddelw’.

Was in North Norway a couple of winters ago. Forty degrees below (heaven for me…..which gets us back on topic). One of the locals (a lass) said: ‘We can’t wait for Spring to arrive. That’s when we unwrap the kids to see who they belong to!’

Have a great day, and very best regards.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

You’d be most welcome.

Brits love to whinge about the weather; but all-in-all we have very little to complain about.

It tends to rain a fair bit in certain parts, and Wales is one of these. My grandfather used to point at one of the mountains (hills, really!) that dominated our part of the Rhondda Valley and say: ‘If you can see Graig-y-Ddelw it’s going to rain. If you can’t see it, it’s raining!’

Graig-y-Ddelw (Rock of the Image). The story is that when (in the early 1900s) local men were digging for coal in the mountain’s side they discovered a granite image of one of the Celtic gods (don’t know which one); hence ‘Graig-y-Ddelw’.

Was in North Norway a couple of winters ago. Forty degrees below (heaven for me…..which gets us back on topic). One of the locals (a lass) said: ‘We can’t wait for Spring to arrive. That’s when we unwrap the kids to see who they belong to!’

Have a great day, and very best regards.

Reminds me of the line in Asterix in Britain:

"Is it always this foggy in Britain?"
"Good heavens, no. Only when it isn't raining."

Clearly the Welsh cling to their Brythonic roots.

 

[Niblo]

Reminds me of the line in Asterix in Britain:

"Is it always this foggy in Britain?"
"Good heavens, no. Only when it isn't raining."

Clearly the Welsh cling to their Brythonic roots.

LOL. Indeed. We waste no time telling everyone that we're the original Brits!

 

[Eyes wide Open]

You’d be most welcome.

Brits love to whinge about the weather; but all-in-all we have very little to complain about.

It tends to rain a fair bit in certain parts, and Wales is one of these. My grandfather used to point at one of the mountains (hills, really!) that dominated our part of the Rhondda Valley and say: ‘If you can see Graig-y-Ddelw it’s going to rain. If you can’t see it, it’s raining!’

Graig-y-Ddelw (Rock of the Image). The story is that when (in the early 1900s) local men were digging for coal in the mountain’s side they discovered a granite image of one of the Celtic gods (don’t know which one); hence ‘Graig-y-Ddelw’.

Was in North Norway a couple of winters ago. Forty degrees below (heaven for me…..which gets us back on topic). One of the locals (a lass) said: ‘We can’t wait for Spring to arrive. That’s when we unwrap the kids to see who they belong to!’

Have a great day, and very best regards.

I was one of those Brits that used to moan about the weather, but in reality it forged my character in many ways having spent 37 of my 47 years there. I traded Winchester, England for the sub tropics of Brisbane, Australia...my little slice of heaven. Love Wales by the way.