Is having the 'Mind of Christ' the same as 'perfection of Christian character'?

[JonMiller]

Did you read the texts you posted?

The Bible doesn't say "Overcome sin and you will be saved", it says "Beleive in Christ and you will be saved"

JM

 

[reddogs]

Did you read the texts you posted?

The Bible doesn't say "Overcome sin and you will be saved", it says "Beleive in Christ and you will be saved"

JM

Part of having faith and believing in Christ and accepting Him is following what He asks if you truly love Him, and as you can see that is, we uphold the law/keep the commandments..

 

[JonMiller]

We beleive in Christ, and then He upholds the law through us. We don't have to uphold the law before we can beleive in Him and be saved.

JM

 

[reddogs]

We beleive in Christ, and then He upholds the law through us. We don't have to uphold the law before we can beleive in Him and be saved.

JM

So you can commit adultery, steal, and murder and do whatever ungodly desire that evil puts in your mind after you 'believe'....somehow I dont think that is the path to eternal life.....

 

[JonMiller]

We don't have to change to be able to be saved by Christ. He accepts us where we are, and then changed us after He has accepted us. We change after we are saved.

This is the good news, this is the gospel.

If we changed ourselves, we would be no different then the buddists.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

So you can commit adultery, steal, and murder and do whatever ungodly desire that evil puts in your mind after you 'believe'....somehow I dont think that is the path to eternal life.....

We don't have to stop commiting adultery, stealing, or murdering to become saved. After we are saved, God will change us to no longer desire those things (if we allow Him to).

JM

 

[reddogs]

We don't have to change to be able to be saved by Christ. He accepts us where we are, and then changed us after He has accepted us. We change after we are saved.

This is the good news, this is the gospel.

If we changed ourselves, we would be no different then the buddists.

JM

I never said you had to change 'before', I said 'after' you accept Christ you are transformed by the Holy Spirit which leads to us losing any desire to sin as the Mind of Christ replaces the Carnal Mind. That is the truth that scripture gives us plainly.....at that point we have clearly overcome sin with divine help..

 

[JonMiller]

I never said you had to change 'before', I said 'after' you accept Christ you are transformed by the Holy Spirit which leads to us losing any desire to sin as the Mind of Christ replaces the Carnal Mind. That is the truth that scripture gives us.....

But you don't need to change yourself, you just need to accept the changes He is effecting in you.

This is the key difference. Many adventists go seeking for changes to make in themselves to become perfect. They feel that they have to be perfect in order to be saved.

Rather, if they accept God, they will seek Him, and He will change them.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

I speak from personal experience. Seek God, beleive in Him, and He will change you.

I have sometimes been slow in allowing Him to change me (part of me still desires how I use to be), I pray that He has patience with me and continues to work within me.

JM

 

[reddogs]

I speak from personal experience. Seek God, beleive in Him, and He will change you.

I have sometimes been slow in allowing Him to change me (part of me still desires how I use to be), I pray that He has patience with me and continues to work within me.

JM

Amen....my brother...

 

[ricker]

Oops, double post.

 

[ricker]

I speak from personal experience. Seek God, beleive in Him, and He will change you.

I have sometimes been slow in allowing Him to change me (part of me still desires how I use to be), I pray that He has patience with me and continues to work within me.
JM

Amen!
I believe we grow much more Christlike when we focus on Him , instead of the law. I believe this idea is well brought out in Scripture. The law is good, just as Romans says, but it is counterproductive to spend too much time dwelling on it. This is the answer to the law debate.

4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

It is not a matter of the law and the sinful passions it arouses, but who leads us. By focusing on Christ, we are free to become all He wants us to be. The Holy Spirit will not lead us to "commit adultery, steal, and murder and do whatever ungodly desire that evil puts in your mind", though we may stumble at times. If you do think a Christian will be led to do these bad things, you have never been born again and led by the Spirit.
God bless! Ricker

 

[reddogs]

Here is a answer that I found very insightful....

"....The latter happens to whomever has the former and uses it, but they are separate bits and Christian, characer perfection doesn't come pragmatically installed with the mind of Christ; yet, that character - illustrated by the character of Christ - is the visible experience of using the mind of Christ itself.

No, they are not synonymous, but the one is the cause of the other. Having "the mind of Christ" is nothing more than Christian existence, in which we ourselves experience Christ's righteousness in thought and action...such experience merely reflects the "righteous deeds of the saints", as we shall all attain to by doing what's in those Scripture & SOP quotes you cited....."

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Part of having faith and believing in Christ and accepting Him is following what He asks if you truly love Him, and as you can see that is, we uphold the law/keep the commandments..

Matt 19:[SIZE=-0][SIZE=-0] 17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." 18 Then he said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; 19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?" NASB[/SIZE][/SIZE]

This is what I think of when I hear people say that we must keep the commandments or that they keep the commandments. They are kidding themselves. Because Jesus threw in the larger commandment amid the easy ones. "Love your neighbor as yourself. "

It is a lesson Adventism needs to learn. Not that we need to keep the Sabbath, that is not man's greatest need but to love your neighbor as yourself. When our emphasis changes our results will change also.
[SIZE=-0][SIZE=-0][/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[reddogs]

This is what I think of when I hear people say that we must keep the commandments or that they keep the commandments. They are kidding themselves. Because Jesus threw in the larger commandment amid the easy ones. "Love your neighbor as yourself. "

It is a lesson Adventism needs to learn. Not that we need to keep the Sabbath, that is not man's greatest need but to love your neighbor as yourself. When our emphasis changes our results will change also.

Love is the root of all the Commandments, so yes loving your neighbor is part of it, but if you fail in the other which is to love God, the love for your neighbor may not be the brotherly agape which is from God, but something from elsewhere.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

I take it then that you think keeping the Sabbath somehow corresponds to loving God. Rather like the pharisees that made sure they did not break the Sabbath as they killed an innocent man, Jesus.

 

[reddogs]

I take it then that you think keeping the Sabbath somehow corresponds to loving God. Rather like the pharisees that made sure they did not break the Sabbath as they killed an innocent man, Jesus.

Well we could all work to death 7 days a week 365 days of the year, or we could accept Gods gift of the Sabbath and rest and focus on His love for us...

Lets see which one would be the better choice......

 

[reddogs]

I take it then that you think keeping the Sabbath somehow corresponds to loving God. Rather like the pharisees that made sure they did not break the Sabbath as they killed an innocent man, Jesus.

Or the ones ignoring the Commandments, and killing Him. Same coin..

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Or the ones ignoring the Commandments, and killing Him. Same coin..

Resurrecting a 9 year old thread...

Red, you need step away from the archives...