Is Halloween evil sinful

[coffee4u]

HArvest is cool. OUr church does trunk or treat and make it a big day with hay rides, bounce houses, and a "magician" (wow what a can or worms that could open) who does his show with gospel tales woven in.

But satan is gradual. Start with innocent cartoons, then innocent looking movies and keep moving up! He is th emaster of patience.

Just like when the mark of the beast will be mandated. We h ave been slowly but surely being inculcated to accept that as normal.

1. NO work without a social secuity number.
2. Paid in cash got switched to paychecks.
3. Credit cards
4. Debit cards.
5. Those fobs.
6. online paying.
7.cryptocurrency
8. Already we have cashless nations with rfid chips for all transactions.

Now I am not saying all these things are satanic, but they definitely are bieng used to get people used to nort buying or selling without a "mark".

I also am not saying that JK Rowlings had Satanic thoughts when writing Harry Potter, but it definitely is used by th eenemy of our souls for nefarious purposes.

I can see where you are coming from too, but I disagree slightly.

We can't wrap ourselves and children in cotton wool and hide under a rock. We and our children will be exposed to things if we like it or not. You can't just forbid everything and throw a blanket over the word believing your children won't see. They will see, and forbidding everything simply breeds resentment, misunderstanding and a longing to rebel. Those are the kids that go crazy as soon as they leave for college.

We need to be both as wise as snakes but as innocent as doves.
Matthew 10:16
"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

Innocent doesn't mean being unaware and uneducated.
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

As said before if you (general you) really were to cut yourself off to every pagan non Godly thing then you would have to live in isolation from the entire world, which would then be hiding your light under a bushel.
Matthew 5:15
Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.

To truly have no pagan influences you would have to not use the name of the days of the week or most months of the year, toss your wedding rings, and numerous other things which have pagan influences on them.
Its all very well jumping on Harry Potter (which I get) but using the word March- named for Mars, the Rhomaios deity of war, is every bit if not more rooted in paganism than HP.
One is noticeable the other files under most people's radars.

Be watchful using discernment in all matters but our children need to be educated and that means open communication between parents and children. Knowing what to restrict and what can be allowed and that could be different for each child.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

Nothing silly about it. The 31st was the day when Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the church in Worms.

I know reformation day itself isnt silly but to call an harvest party a reformation day party is in my opinion,Its not like any kids know what it means.

 

[Archivist]

I know reformation day itself isnt silly but to call an harvest party a reformation day party is in my opinion,Its not like any kids know what it means.

I know of times that we have had Reformation parties in my church, but I’m Lutheran. It is something that we teach young people in my church.

 

[Ann77]

It can be taken too extremes. I still like seeing the jack-o'-lanterns on people's doorsteps and eating the candy. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

 

[nolidad]

Name some, why don't you?

Really?

praying, singing, readings, offerings, gatherings, proselytizing, special days, etc.etc.etc.

I think all here know that teh trappings of Easter, may day, and Christmas are mostly pagan in origin. But we know little of their beginnings so we celebrate the Lords birth with them, or HIs rresurrection, or use the may pole (now almost extinct) in a celebration instead of the original asateroth pole used.

 

[nolidad]

If you could direct me to some of that evidence I'd be keen to see it. To my knowledge, no one has ever successfully demonstrated any paranormal powers of any kind under controlled circumstances. If rhere are any such cases I'd be very interested in hearing about them.

In this, google can be your friend.

I can give you a first hand account and a 2nd hand.

Taos New Mexico. I was on a mission trip to with with Taos Pueblo Indians. Withch Doctor or tribal shaman was upset we were making inroads n the tribe. He gathered all , sttod on a stage and just disappeared! No puff of smoke, no loud noises- justr gone! Came back momentarily with tree branches of trees that are not grown in N.M.

Ghana Africa. Pastor from my church who did not believe in demon possession. Walking back to missionary compound from local town. Encountered crowd of people. Tired ot skirt the crowd but one on the edge told him that the shaman was doing magic and wasn't He a Christian and should stop it?

Man was cutting himself with a razor and healing as he cut. Swallowed large pins, they stuck out of his throat, then regurgitated them with no negative effects.

Pastor rebukes him in Jesus name, he stops and goes to his haunches. Rebukes him again , starts howling and runs away on all four with the speed of a dog! Pastor believed in demon possession afterwards!

Now you can look for some of your own. I know of books documenting instances, but videos or on-line? I never bothered to look.

I witnessed to a white witch who in front of witnesses could blow out candles in a closed room with just the power of her incantations. NO puffs of wind or gusts- the candles in a still room just went out!

 

[nolidad]

Excuse me, what kind of wonders were those again?

Hmmm... once again it seems to me that this is the result of Satan's go-to power - the Big Lie. "Lying wonders" coupled with the skills of the ultimate sleazy salesman "causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast". No magic there, just plain old manipulation on a grand scale.

No magic necessary in this day and time to call down fire "from heaven", is there?

Yeah, Nick can probably do stuff that we can't, but again, no indication at all that he has, or is able to, give magic powers to others. Then again, how do you know that what he was showing to our Lord wasn't a lie, just another of his usual sleazy tricks?

Because that's what magicians do, that's the business they're in. They don't really saw women in half, or levitate, or pull rabbits from empty hats. Harary didn't really relocate Diamond Head or make the Space Shuttle disappear, although it certainly looked like he did. Magicians are illusionists.

Pharoah's magicians were obviously very skilled conjurors, which is probably how they became the court magicians. They could create simulations of the works of God through Moses, but they quickly found themselves out of their depth.

Do note that there is no indication that the Egyptian magicians were using diabolical powers at all, or anything other than "their enchantments". These old boys knew their business, no "real magic" required.

Lunatics are known to exhibit almost inhuman strength, and I see no reason to believe that a demoniac would not as well.

Agreed. He is not, however, a minor god of some sort, and able to do anything at all. He has such powers as God has allowed him and no more. There is no evidence from Scripture or History that has has either the desire or the ability to grant any paranormal powers to his toadies. Again, no one has ever demonstrated paranormal "powers" of any kind at all under conditions where cheating wasn't possible. Until I am presented with credible evidence that anyone now has, or anyone has ever had, demonstrable magical abilities, I will assume that no one does.

On the contrary, I believe that to assume that Satan has godlike powers that he hands out to those who sign on with him, or that there are naturally occurring "magic" abilities that may be accessed by going through "magical" rituals deludes the credulous into turning away from God and attempting to "learn magic" instead. By saying "Satan is powerful and grants magic powers to his followers" we're probably turning people in his direction.

[/QUOTE]

Jipsah, you need to when you read the bible, put aside your 21st century mind on many words and understand how they were used by the writers!

Lying wonders are not sleight of hand ala Penn and Teller but deceptive miracles . REal miracles designed to deceive people.

As for enchantments? Once again you are giving a 21st century definition for a B.C. word! Enchantments meant their secrets. It was because they knew the secrets of teh mystery religions founded in Babylon and were in touch with demonic entities.

As for lunatics?

So when Jesus exorcised a legion of demons from that man- He was just better at sleight of hand than the demoniac????

Well then you find it incredulous that Satan is able to work counterfeit miracles (rela miracles designed to draw away from God) is your privilege. I will accept the bible as written.

 

[nolidad]

Oh, I'm SO SCARED!! Have you no faith?

I do not fear HIm! I do respect His power and ability to deceive. Even Peter told us to be alert!

I have plenty of faith, but I know we wrestle against very powerful forces as well.

 

[nolidad]

We can't wrap ourselves and children in cotton wool and hide under a rock. We and our children will be exposed to things if we like it or not. You can't just forbid everything and throw a blanket over the word believing your children won't see. They will see, and forbidding everything simply breeds resentment, misunderstanding and a longing to rebel. Those are the kids that go crazy as soon as they leave for college.

As I also pointed out! We should filter out as much ungodliness as we can, but I am not foolish enough to think that we can stop all. So the ones we allow, we should be armed with Godly answers as to why we should not focus on it!

I never said forbid everything. I just am concerned with Harry Potter and the fact that witchcraft has seen a great rise worldwide.

Just like hindu meditation did when the Beatles made that glamorous.

Once again let me state: I do not believe in forbidding everything, but I believe in things of the world we need to exercise discernment in what we allow into our homes.

I forbid inappropriate contentography, slasher films, horror films and many things that directly glorify practices the bible declares as abominations!

MY sons di dnot read Harry Potter and they did not experience any negative things because of it! We did watch star wars and I di dteach them about the evil of "the force".

 

[Jipsah]

I think all here know that teh trappings of Easter, may day, and Christmas are mostly pagan in origin.

I can't think of a single pagan who worships Jesus Christ, or who believes that He is God Incarnate, or born of a virgin. Those are all things we contemplate at Advent and Christmas.

Neither do I now of any pagans who proclaim that "He is risen!" at Easter (or Pascha, or Resurrection Day if the "pagan" name troubles you), or who believe in His Resurrection at all. So no, I emphatically deny that the celebration of our Lord's birth and Resurrection have anything to do with paganism at all, and find the idea borderline blasphemous.

But we know little of their beginnings

Primarily because those "beginnings" are typically wholly imaginary. Imaginary feasts for imaginary pagan deities, imaginary connections between imaginary deities in places so remote from each other that the people referenced never heard of each other, much less swapped stories about their "gods". (The Easter/Ishtar idiocy, for instance.) Time jumps with pagan practices that had died off centuries before are supposed to have suddenly reappeared so as to allow the early Church to be influenced by them. (Like the utterly stupid idea that the early Church incorporated Babylonian myths into the Faith.) The same kind of made-up "history" that atheists use to try and make Christianity an outgrowth of Mithra worship (which is laughable in itself). It is for the most part of people who had little or no knowledge of actual history, or paganism, or much of anything else.

we celebrate the Lords birth with them, or HIs rresurrection

By praying, and singing, and worshipping? OK, if the pagans hold Trademark and Copyright to those things, then we're guilty. Then again, so is almost every church service ever held.

, or use the may pole (now almost extinct) in a celebration instead of the original asateroth pole used.

When did "May Day" become a Christian feast? Isn't that right up there in the Christian calendar with Groundhog Day and Guy Fawkes Day?

But thanks for the "fake history" example. The Maypole Dance is northern European in origin, far removed from in centuries and in miles from the Middle Eastern Canaanites The dance was originally performed around a live tree, as opposed to the carved idol of the ancient Canaanites. In the European version, the tree became a plain pole, and the dance became a matter of skill, the dancers trying to plaint their streamers around the tree/pole as they danced, and then unplait them in the opposite direction. The pole lended itself better to that kind or artistry than a tree did, as well as being portable. NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH AN ASHURAH POLE, which was an image of whatever "goddess" those folks worshipped carved into a pole.

Even if there has been some vague relationship between the two chunks of wood, which of course there was not, does that mean that no poles of any kind are to be used in Christian worship, becaause pagans once used poles for something? Are we not to sing because pagans may have sung? Are we not to pray to God because pagans prayed to their nonexistent gods Are not to kneel before the Cross because long dead heathens knelt before an idol? How far must this kind of lunacy go? Must we leave off the use of telephone poles and fence posts for fear of encroaching on territory to which pagan Canaanites hold title deed?

 

[Jipsah]

Taos New Mexico. I was on a mission trip to with with Taos Pueblo Indians. Withch Doctor or tribal shaman was upset we were making inroads n the tribe. He gathered all , sttod on a stage and just disappeared! No puff of smoke, no loud noises- justr gone! Came back momentarily with tree branches of trees that are not grown in N.M.

Stage magic at best.

Man was cutting himself with a razor and healing as he cut. Swallowed large pins, they stuck out of his throat, then regurgitated them with no negative effects.

Old school street magic. I'd have to see it, biut I suspect I know how it was done. Maybe dude was demon possessed, but doing conjurors' tricks like that doesn't prove it.

Remember, the thing that any conjuror is striving for is for his audience to say,"There's no way that's possible!"

Now you can look for some of your own.

Anecdotes are no good, too many people are too easily impressed. I can "disappear" stuff in such a convincing manner that it has kept me supplied with more beers than I may have strictly needed on many occasions. No diabolical powers required, just an audience who looks where you want them to look. The downside to that is having found myself on many occasions in an audience where everyone was gasping in amazement, while I was going "Oh, was that all?". My biggest magical disappointment was paying too much money to see a big name conjuror, and ending up seated in the (for me) wrong place. Perfect trick, perfectly performed, all as advertised. Unfortunately, where I was sitting the stage lights gave me about a millisecond's reflection off of the gaff that made the trick work. I haven't told anyone how the trick worked, and won't. The fun is in bring able to say "there's no way anyone could do that...". The bigger the trick, the most disappointing it is to see how it was done.

I witnessed to a white witch who in front of witnesses could blow out candles in a closed room with just the power of her incantations. NO puffs of wind or gusts- the candles in a still room just went out!

I know that one, amateur hour.

 

[nolidad]

I can't think of a single pagan who worships Jesus Christ, or who believes that He is God Incarnate, or born of a virgin. Those are all things we contemplate at Advent and Christmas.

Muslims and voodoo do most of these.

Neither do I now of any pagans who proclaim that "He is risen!" at Easter (or Pascha, or Resurrection Day if the "pagan" name troubles you), or who believe in His Resurrection at all. So no, I emphatically deny that the celebration of our Lord's birth and Resurrection have anything to do with paganism at all, and find the idea borderline blasphemous.

I never said they did! What I said was the trappings are all pagan in origin.

Xmas trees, yule logs, boars head festival. Even the day is a day picked to placate the pagans for saturnalia and the winter solstice. Jesus was most likely born in late Sept-early Oct.

At Christmas, I usually hold a teaching on how we can "redeem" teh Christmas tree.

Primarily because those "beginnings" are typically wholly imaginary. Imaginary feasts for imaginary pagan deities, imaginary connections between imaginary deities in places so remote from each other that the people referenced never heard of each other, much less swapped stories about their "gods". (The Easter/Ishtar idiocy, for instance.) Time jumps with pagan practices that had died off centuries before are supposed to have suddenly reappeared so as to allow the early Church to be influenced by them. (Like the utterly stupid idea that the early Church incorporated Babylonian myths into the Faith.) The same kind of made-up "history" that atheists use to try and make Christianity an outgrowth of Mithra worship (which is laughable in itself). It is for the most part of people who had little or no knowledge of actual history, or paganism, or much of anything else.

Well these "imaginary" feasts were well practiced in Rome, Greece, and Egypt. you are just way too sceptical. YOu should do some reading on pagan religions.

By praying, and singing, and worshipping? OK, if the pagans hold Trademark and Copyright to those things, then we're guilty. Then again, so is almost every church service ever held.

Never said they did.

REd Herring.

But thanks for the "fake history" example. The Maypole Dance is northern European in origin, far removed from in centuries and in miles from the Middle Eastern Canaanites The dance was originally performed around a live tree, as opposed to the carved idol of the ancient Canaanites. In the European version, the tree became a plain pole, and the dance became a matter of skill, the dancers trying to plaint their streamers around the tree/pole as they danced, and then unplait them in the opposite direction. The pole lended itself better to that kind or artistry than a tree did, as well as being portable. NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH AN ASHURAH POLE, which was an image of whatever "goddess" those folks worshipped carved into a pole.

Well the ashteroth Pole was the first known pole. Found with the Canaanites, it wove its way among many ethnos. The maypole in Europe started in Germany and its origins are mostly relegated to myth and anecdotes. But it is attributed to the worship of their pagan gods originally. Some attribute the use of the pole tpo its irigns with the Caananites and how it moved from culture to culture. It was used in the Roman Empire and that is where the germans may have adopted it.

 

[nolidad]

Stage magic at best.

Well how intelligent are you! You can determine tehis without video, without interview or anything! Maybe you have ESP !

Old school street magic. I'd have to see it, biut I suspect I know how it was done. Maybe dude was demon possessed, but doing conjurors' tricks like that doesn't prove it.

Remember, the thing that any conjuror is striving for is for his audience to say,"There's no way that's possible!"

so cynical! This wasn't David Blaine doing street magic. This was an African tribal shaman who had no idea of stage magic and was just trying to keep his tribe from responding ot the gospel by showing he was more powerful than Christians.

But I shall end this conversation here. YOu will not be convinced even if Satan rises the antichrist from the dead as Scripture declares! YOu will com eup wioth some lame excuse to pooh-pooh it off as some parlor trick.

 

[Jipsah]

Well how intelligent are you! You can determine tehis without video, without interview or anything! Maybe you have ESP !

More likely I know how such tricks are done. That was stage magic, mate, nothing more.

This wasn't David Blaine doing street magic. This was an African tribal shaman who had no idea of stage magic

No idea of stage magic? Good grief, that's what a shaman lives on! If you want to see some beautiful street magic, watch a Korean moodang or Egyptian gali-gali magicians. These people have been making their livings with street magic for centuries, passing their skills down from one generation to the next. Solid showmen, and they sure didn't learn it from youtube. That African shaman got precisely the response any good conjuror is looking for - an audience that says "There's no way anyone could do that!"

One group of performers you should pay attention to, since they're the ones most likely to he be accused of demonic powers. I won't defend them, because they're typically amongst those who deserve the name "witches" with all its evil connotations intact. They're the "psychics", "spirit mediums", "channelers", ad nauseum, and they're nasty pieces of work. They don't do their schtick for the entertainment of an audience, they do it to deceive, to cheat, to swindle, to seduce, to manipulate, and to control, their victims. They persuade their "marks" that they can foretell the future, contact dead loved ones, and such-like lies, and just as the stage conjuror makes it appear that he can produce an infinite number of live chicks from thin air, these charlatans make it appear that they have access to arcane knowledge that "there's no way they could know". Very ancient records show these creatures, like the ones in Acts, using lunatics and demoniacs as their "oracles", and transforming their word salad into "prophecies" for which the mark pays. The famous "Oracle of Delphi" is the best know, where

"the Pythia delivered oracles in a frenzied state induced by vapours rising from a chasm in the rock, and that she spoke gibberish which priests interpreted as the enigmatic prophecies".

The common modern-day variety necromancer is a "cold reader", who uses seemingly innocuous questions asked of the mark to give "mystical answers" to questions addressed to dead relatives or historical figures, or to spirits who are presumed to have access to arcane knowledge. There are also "hot readers" who use secretly gathered information to feed back to the victim, and those who fake various "ghostly phenomena" to create the illusion of "spiritual activity. These criminals have defrauded the credulous of untold sums of money,, and in many cases have gulled their victims into becoming virtually slaves to the "psychic", who feel that he's a powerful figure of some sort. Extraordinarily bad people, who have lured many from the true Faith into a religious netherworld where the "psychic" himself has become both prophet and deity. Does Satan inspire these people? Certainly in the sense that he inspires any evil doer. Does Satan grant them any "powers"? Only the power to lie and deceive, which he has distributed liberally amongst fallen humanity.

But I shall end this conversation here. YOu will not be convinced even if Satan rises the antichrist from the dead as Scripture declares!

Scripture says no such thing. It says:

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

It doesn't say it was dead, it says "as it were wounded to death". Translation to modern: "Looked like it was dead". And it doesn't say it was raised from the dead, it says the wound was healed. No mention of Satan at all. Reckon you may be giving Old Nick more credit than he deserves? Some people see him as a Negative God, but he's not. He's a creature that God allows to exist, and who has such powers as God has given him. That's all. Like the old hymn says, "One little word shall fell him".

 

[Jipsah]

Well the ashteroth Pole was the first known pole.

And every other pole ever made, the telegraph pole, the tier pole (beloved of tobacco farmers), the lodge pole, barber pole, magnetic pole, ski pole, raft pole, trekking pole, even totem pole. They're all esentialy sticks, originall of wood, now made of lots of different stuff. I think yiour claim the Ashurah pole is the First Known Pole is as dubious as the rest of your history.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

I know of times that we have had Reformation parties in my church, but I’m Lutheran. It is something that we teach young people in my church.

See my church is pentecostal which is perhaps why I found it odd.

 

[Archivist]

See my church is pentecostal which is perhaps why I found it odd.

OK I can see that as being unusual.

Years ago we shared our church with the Catholic Church when they were building a new church, and we often had combined services. We had one on Reformation Sunday. The priest had a big smile when we opened with A Mighty Fortress.

 

[nolidad]

Scripture says no such thing. It says:

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

It doesn't say it was dead, it says "as it were wounded to death". Translation to modern: "Looked like it was dead". And it doesn't say it was raised from the dead, it says the wound was healed. No mention of Satan at all. Reckon you may be giving Old Nick more credit than he deserves? Some people see him as a Negative God, but he's not. He's a creature that God allows to exist, and who has such powers as God has given him. That's all. Like the old hymn says, "One little word shall fell him".

Well after this you may have the last word for this discussion between us has devolved to pointlessness.

But I agree that that is how Scripture words the antichrists' mortal would! But deadly is thanatos which as an adjective means mortal or deadly.

and this passage has the same phraseology as this passage;

REv. 5:6
New King James Version
And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

The Lamb was slain and so won't the counterfeit Jesus be slain and healed.

but you only can accept that if you take the bible as written.

Have your last word if you wish.

 

[Jipsah]

Lying wonders are not sleight of hand ala Penn and Teller but deceptive miracles . REal miracles designed to deceive people.

I believe they were lying wonders, as the Scripture says. Fake miracles, designed to deceive, to make people believe that they were equal to the powers of God.

As for enchantments? Once again you are giving a 21st century definition for a B.C. word! Enchantments meant their secrets. It was because they knew the secrets of teh mystery religions founded in Babylon and were in touch with demonic entities.

Your assumption, since you assume that Satan can and will grant "powers" to his lackeys. I make no such assumption. I see no example, if Scripture or in history, to believe that he can do any such thing.

So when Jesus exorcised a legion of demons from that man- He was just better at sleight of hand than the demoniac????

Sorry, I don;t know what that was supposed to mean, although i do detect that it was meant as an insult of some sort. But let me sort this for you: Satan, liar, performs tricks, ruses, deceptions, frauds, con jobs. Jesus, God, created the universe, omnipotent (i.e., can do absolutely anything that He so desires), created Satan, who exists only as long as Jesus sees fit to allow it. Satan, creature, Jesus, Creator. Jesus, God. Satan, not a god, not even a little one. See the difference?

BTW, where are the Magical Powers exhibited by the demoniac? We've gone over the fact that he was very strong, as madmen often are. What else? They seem to be altogether lacking. He was in every sense a pathetic victim.

Well then you find it incredulous that Satan is able to work counterfeit miracles (rela miracles designed to draw away from God) is your privilege.

Lost me there. Are you saying that since our Lord can do anything that Old Nick can do anything as well? Crikey, I hope that's not what you're saying! But you got part of it right - counterfeit miracles. Bogus miracles. Phony miracles. Lying wonders. Frauds. Deceptions. Cons. Fakes. Lies. Got it? No magic. Just lies. Same for his stooges.

I will accept the bible as written.

Once you've added your spin to it, anyway. The Bible doesn't say that the Egyptian conjurors were given any powers from Satan, that's your overlay. It just says "the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments". Their enchantments, in my read, being their secret (a good conjuror never reveals how he does a trick) arts. You believe in the "power of satan", so that's what yoyu decided that's what was going on there. I see "magic" as a means of fooling people, and that's what I'm seeing there. I'll show you a million examples of my kind of "magic". none of which requires any power other than sleight of hand, misdirection, clever gaffs, and long practice, if you'll show me one example, under controlled conditions, where anyone at all has ever exhibited any paranormal powers at all.

 

[Jipsah]

Well after this you may have the last word for this discussion between us has devolved to pointlessness.

Which, I think, is where it began.

But I agree that that is how Scripture words the antichrists' mortal would! But deadly is thanatos which as an adjective means mortal or deadly.

Yes, I think we can agree that deadly means deadly.

The Lamb was slain and so won't the counterfeit Jesus be slain and healed.

No. what kind of "Jesus" did you just call him, counterfeit, wasn't it? Fake? So you expect a fake Jesus to really die and really be resurrected. Sorry, mate, but you didn't get that from the Bible.

but you only can accept that if you take the bible as written.

You probably won't see the irony of saying that after you'd just posted a load of claptrap that you made up yourself.

Have your last word if you wish.

Well...bye.