Is grace resistable?!?!?!?!?

[Hanani]

nt

 

just wonder what your ideas on the topic are i'll wait awhile and add my own later

 

[DaveKerwin]

I am not sure if it is. My initial reaction is yes, we can reject freedom in Christ.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Hanani
nt

just wonder what your ideas on the topic are i'll wait awhile and add my own later

The creation can not thwart the Will of the Creator.  If it is God's sovereign decision to bestow grace, the creation can not stop it.  If that grace enables us to resist an ungodly behavior, more often than not, we attribute that to our own willpower.  But, the truth is, it is only by God's grace that we are alive, much less able to sin, or refrain from sinning.

God bless

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
I am not sure if it is. My initial reaction is yes, we can reject freedom in Christ.

Well first we must understand that we are speaking of salvific grace here.  Why?  Because all who sin resist Him and His grace when we do sin.  However I feel that although we can resist Him somewhat we can't resist Him fully.  Another words we can sin but if God gives us saving grace then we will be saved.  My question is what do people think saving grace is?  What I mean is what actions do we think that God does in order for His elect to be saved? 

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
Well first we must understand that we are speaking of salvific grace here.  Why?  Because all who sin resist Him and His grace when we do sin.  However I feel that although we can resist Him somewhat we can't resist Him fully.  Another words we can sin but if God gives us saving grace then we will be saved.

Good point bro.  Yes, there is a difference.  However, I don't think it's an issue of "resisting" God's grace when we sin.  I think the reason we sin is because God does not give His grace.  Before this evokes any argument, remember God is under no obligation to give His grace.

My question is what do people think saving grace is?  What I mean is what actions do we think that God does in order for His elect to be saved? 

God doesn't do an action "in order for His elect to be saved."  God saves us.  His saving action is to quicken our spirit from death to life.  He saves us through the faith that He gives us.  Our salvation is 100%, totally, and completely His doing.  He is the author and finisher of our forgiveness, regeneration, faith, salvation, sanctification, justification, and glorification.

God bless

 

[Received]

I think the reason we sin is because God does not give His grace. Before this evokes any argument, remember God is under no obligation to give His grace.

True true true. Even our ability to repent is grace that He needs not give. I could not agree with you more Reformationist. I do find it rather interesting the idea of grace given here in the forums. Grace is defined as having the universe on your side; as having God Omnipotent give you His favor. Considering grace resistable is like considering a poverty stricken man resisting a prosperous road to financial independance. When you see grace you want it, and you don't have it revealed if you consider denying it. "Freedom from Christ" and grace are clearly two different things.

blessings,

John

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Good point bro.  Yes, there is a difference.  However, I don't think it's an issue of "resisting" God's grace when we sin.  I think the reason we sin is because God does not give His grace.  Before this evokes any argument, remember God is under no obligation to give His grace.

Hmm interesting point.  I understand what you are saying and it makes sense.  If God gave us the grace to not sin then we would not.  However if God did do this then why would He not do this if it would mean we would still have free choice?  I know it is for His glory and that Iam a man and can't fully understand these things but it seems liek to me that when God chose to give us free choice that He also made it possible for us to resist Him. (sin) Now God is still completly in control of this but He allowed all this to occur.  If God did not want it to occur it would not have but I also think then we would not have the free choice to sin.  

  God doesn't do an action "in order for His elect to be saved."  God saves us.  His saving action is to quicken our spirit from death to life.  He saves us through the faith that He gives us.  Our salvation is 100%, totally, and completely His doing.  He is the author and finisher of our forgiveness, regeneration, faith, salvation, sanctification, justification, and glorification.

God bless [/B]

My question was is how does God make it so that we are saved.  His action is to save us but How does He do this action?  I see that you are saying that He regenerates us.  This makes sense.  But I guess I am getting more into it.  Does the place where God puts us in this life have anything to do with it?  Is it just the inward call that does it?  Does that make sense?  I guess I am a searcher when it comes to soteriology still and still trying to figure out what I believe about what Goddoes in order to bring us to the point that we place our faith in Him.  I know that He is te one who causes us to do it.  But I guess what I am saying is that is part of this regeneration external?  Like is part of it that I am here in the U.S. with Godly parents and another is in Iraq qith Muslim parents?  Again I am not saying I am the one who saves myself. It is all God but how does He bring me to that point?  Maybe this is a question that we will not know until we get to heaven. 

 

[Hanani]

sounds like you guys have a nice discussion goin on with some good points from both sides now as promised i will share my view on the topic


grace is not resistable grace is imo an enabling without grace we would not be saved it enables us to be saved therefore we cannot resist it because everyone is enabled to be saved the possability is there for everyone but we because of free will choose to use the grace or not

i'll give an example it's like someone that has a crush on you you cannot make them stop liking you but you choose weather to accept it or not

 

[Job_38]

Here is a sermon and notes from my church. I found it extremely enlighteng.

 

[Job_38]

Grace- Yes.

Gods grace- No.

 

[Hanani]

Job i think your post didn't come out right

and please post why you believe the way you do

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
Hmm interesting point.  I understand what you are saying and it makes sense.  If God gave us the grace to not sin then we would not.  However if God did do this then why would He not do this if it would mean we would still have free choice?  I know it is for His glory and that Iam a man and can't fully understand these things but it seems liek to me that when God chose to give us free choice that He also made it possible for us to resist Him. (sin) Now God is still completly in control of this but He allowed all this to occur.  If God did not want it to occur it would not have but I also think then we would not have the free choice to sin.

Well, I'm a little confused as to what you're confused about.

When we are saved by God we are given the ability to make a righteous decision.  Prior to that we can make decisions, but all those decisions are unrighteous because they are not motivated by our faith and they are not done to glorify God, just as the Gentiles in Romans 1:21.

As my pastor always says, "But for the grace of God, there go I."

My question was is how does God make it so that we are saved.  His action is to save us but How does He do this action?  I see that you are saying that He regenerates us.  This makes sense.  But I guess I am getting more into it.  Does the place where God puts us in this life have anything to do with it?  Is it just the inward call that does it?  Does that make sense?  I guess I am a searcher when it comes to soteriology still and still trying to figure out what I believe about what Goddoes in order to bring us to the point that we place our faith in Him.  I know that He is te one who causes us to do it.  But I guess what I am saying is that is part of this regeneration external?  Like is part of it that I am here in the U.S. with Godly parents and another is in Iraq qith Muslim parents?  Again I am not saying I am the one who saves myself. It is all God but how does He bring me to that point?  Maybe this is a question that we will not know until we get to heaven. 

Well, I can only give you my opinion.  We should thank God daily for His providence.  He puts us where He will.  Can you imagine how hard it must be to embrace Christianity if you live in a predominately Muslim or Bhuddist country, like the Middle east, or India, or China?  As to the specific action He performs on us, I am not sure.  It is difficult to describe the circumcision of the heart in physical terms.  The thing we must remember is that what has begun in the Spirit will finish in the Spirit (Gal 3:3).

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Hanani
sounds like you guys have a nice discussion goin on with some good points from both sides now as promised i will share my view on the topic


grace is not resistable grace is imo an enabling without grace we would not be saved it enables us to be saved therefore we cannot resist it because everyone is enabled to be saved the possability is there for everyone but we because of free will choose to use the grace or not

i'll give an example it's like someone that has a crush on you you cannot make them stop liking you but you choose weather to accept it or not

 

ARRRRRRGGGGHHH!!  What happened to your punctuation??!!!!

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Job_38
Grace- Yes.

Gods grace- No.

HUH??!!!

 

[paulewog]

Resistable? Common grace, no. Not until you're old enough to do some things anyways. I mean, a baby cannot refuse to live very easily

God's saving grace? Yes, it's resistable. It's available to everyone, but not everyone takes it..... .....

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by paulewog
Resistable? Common grace, no. Not until you're old enough to do some things anyways. I mean, a baby cannot refuse to live very easily

God's saving grace? Yes, it's resistable. It's available to everyone, but not everyone takes it..... .....

What are these terms and where did you get them from?  I am not denying there are different levels of God's grace but I'm totally confused on the Scriptural support for this opinion.  Using your terms I'd have actually said those statements opposite of what you did.

Thanks,

God bless

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by paulewog
Resistable? Common grace, no. Not until you're old enough to do some things anyways. I mean, a baby cannot refuse to live very easily

God's saving grace? Yes, it's resistable. It's available to everyone, but not everyone takes it..... .....

The above satement confuses me.  Having read many of your past posts, I was under the impression that you were a believer in Election/Predestination.

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by Reformationist
What are these terms and where did you get them from?  I am not denying there are different levels of God's grace but I'm totally confused on the Scriptural support for this opinion.  Using your terms I'd have actually said those statements opposite of what you did.

Thanks,

God bless

I have heard these before.  Common grace is God's hand in the world that keeps things from breaking down into total chaos.  I guess you could call it conscience.  It is what keeps the unbeliever from being totally out of control.  God's saving grace is another way of saying what we reformers know as Irresistible Grace.

It sounds good, can I back it up with scripture?  No.  So I don't put alot of stock in it.  I will study further, though.  Kind of makes sense though.  As hateful toward God as the unbeliever can be, we would be in a world of hurt if something wasn't holding them back.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Gabriel
I have heard these before.  Common grace is God's hand in the world that keeps things from breaking down into total chaos.  I guess you could call it conscience.  It is what keeps the unbeliever from being totally out of control.

Sounds good, except for one thing.  If we did not have God's grace on some level every minute of every day the worst that would happen wouldn't be things "breaking down into total chaos."  We would cease to exist.  It's only by His very "uncommon" grace that we continue to exist.

God bless.

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Sounds good, except for one thing.  If we did not have God's grace on some level every minute of every day the worst that would happen wouldn't be things "breaking down into total chaos."  We would cease to exist.  It's only by His very "uncommon" grace that we continue to exist.

God bless.

Agreed.  I believe the term common grace is used only because it is extended to all, rather than His effectual grace which is extended only to His Elect.

Either way, the terms used cannot, to my knowledge, be backed up by scripture.