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Featured Is God's love unconditional?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by MostRadicalManEver, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    That's not how I understand it.

    As it's already been posted: God planned to reconcile us to Him before the foundation of the earth.....He died for us *while* we were still sinners. He even asked forgiveness for the very ones that killed Him (Luke 23:34)

    This passage seems to speak to the idolatrous ways in Gehenna....and how people have turned the True God into this monster god--Molech-- that is appeased by sacrifices of tortured humans. "Turning his grace into lasciviousness":

    I don't believe the True God is anything like that (as this passage states):
    They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!~Jeremiah 19:5
    ....yet some have made Him into *just* that--denying His love for His creation (and distorting it into something else)....and the ultimate gift of love He gave us in enduring the cross (to demonstrate His love--Romans 5:8).
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  2. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Yeah, since Jesus hated hypocrisy and learned everything from the Father, God is not a hypocrite .... and loves those who hate him.

    it is important to mature as the Father is the picture of maturity, or be perfect as God is perfect.
     
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  3. Jonathan Leo

    Jonathan Leo Well-Known Member

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    Gods love is unconditional, however being reconciled to God has conditions if that makes sense.
    In heaven, we will worship God for who He is, He will pour out His unconditional love on us.
    In sinful earth, we are natural Gods enemies and are only made righteous because He sacrificed His Son for us. That shows Gods unconditional love for us right there, but to accept His Gift to mankind, we must first take it (accepting Jesus as lord and Saviour) and walk in obiediance through faith. These then are conditions.

    Put it another way
    I can give you my unconditional love, but that doesn’t mean you will want to be in partnership with me. There are conditions you need to do before you get my unconditional love, (dating, claiming I’m your partner, walking with me as your partner, marriage to your partner, etc)
    Does this make sense?
    God is no fool and has conditions for us to obtain His unconditional love
     
  4. RayJeena

    RayJeena Before I was born, he knew me. Supporter

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    Unconditional love with conditions doesn’t seem to add up.

    If people could simply meet conditions, a Savior wouldn’t have been needed.
    Christianity could just be another religion with … conditions. Any religion
    will do, if it's just about meeting conditions.

    -
     
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  5. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I can agree with this.

    People misunderstand Universal Reconciliation to mean anything goes and that it infers God is turning a blind eye to sin....but that's not true.

    It's the difference between a punitive justice and a restorative justice. His love heals our sickness of sin (eventually....it's a process that takes our cooperation and willingness).
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  6. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Yes...and the only condition is faith.
     
  7. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I like the distinction that Beth Moore makes......saying that it's about *believing God*....not just "believing IN Him" (our enemy believes IN Him....yet still fights against Him).
     
  8. Jonathan Leo

    Jonathan Leo Well-Known Member

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    Well said
     
  9. Jonathan Leo

    Jonathan Leo Well-Known Member

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    The only condition on our half is to repent and belief in the One He sent. It’s a condition that we need participate of. If we don’t walk in that faith, God is not our father and we are not his children.
    When we do walk in that faith, we are Gods children and God is our father. God has unconditional love for those who are His. Equally, He has unconditional hatred for sin and will punish it and those who belong to it, aka, rejecting the Saviour.
    There is in a sense, one condition to receive Unconditional love the Father has to give, and that’s be His child.
    Or in another way put,
    We have free will, do you want His unconditional love, or walk in your darkness / sin. The only condition is, with our free will, repent and turn back to him.
    Prodigal son should clarify the difference between unconditional love and the conditions required to receive it
     
  10. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    This I don't agree with (and I'm aware of the Bible verse that can be used to support this idea--I just don't think it fits in the larger picture).

    I can't think of anything that illustrates His love for us better than in the parable of the Prodigal Son. The prodigal never ceased being the Father's son....the Father's love was never retracted. (But.....I do understand--and somewhat agree with--what you're saying about "receiving" His love). Until we believe it's for us....actually absorb it....we aren't going to demonstrate allegiance to Him.

    OTOH.....I often think that a lot of Christians have become the older brother--- obeying the Father's rules (begrudgingly and with a bit of pride), but not genuinely appreciating His presence and lavish love (and becoming angry and envious at the Father's gracious love towards the prodigal).

    From Luke 15:

    ‘Look, I’ve served you all these years, and I never disobeyed your instruction. Yet you’ve never given me as much as a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours returned, after gobbling up your estate on prostitutes, you slaughtered the fattened calf for him.’ 31 Then his father said, ‘Son, you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad because this brother of yours was dead and is alive. He was lost and is found.’”


    I notice he wanted to celebrate with his friends....and couldn't bring himself to call his brother "brother" (instead said "this son of yours"). I believe that God's desire that all will be saved should *also* be our desire as well (and we should desire to celebrate with HIM AND all His creation---not just an exclusive club of people).
     
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  11. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    The quoted proof text does not support UR! It is not about God punishing sinners. It never came into God's mind and God never commanded such a horrible deed as His people burning their children and sacrificing them to Baal. God Himself did in fact burn His children in Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plains. Genesis 19:28 What about God's love for all the people old, young, men, women, children, infants who died in the fire?
     
  12. Jonathan Leo

    Jonathan Leo Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so your disagreeing with the bold post I mentioned and that’s ok, but can I ask
    If we reject Jesus, do we still get saved? Does God still call us His children?, and does He send His so called children into eternal damnation?
    The prodigal son, His father never stopped being His father (creator) but if the son wanted to abuse his fathers blessing ( throw away his wealth and inheritance) and live according to his own life (sin and selfishness), the father as saddened by it, would leave him to his own devices (free will). It’s when the son learned his errors and turned back (repented), then the father was glad to receive him back.
    The prodigal son shows Gods unconditional love for his child. And whilst we can apply that to our lives today, the full meaning of the parable explains the fall and salvation of mankind.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  13. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    This is a good example (I think) of a difference between punitive justice (what a lot of people believe God employs)....and restorative justice (which is the type that pertains to Universal Restoration)



    For those that would rather not click on the link: the basic summary is that a boy had been found guilty of stealing a car. Instead of punishing him (keeping him in a viscous cycle of crime) the offended was asked if she'd be open to meeting with the young man--who lived in poverty with his mom that worked multiple jobs trying to make ends meet--to try to reach a resolution (he wasn't going to be able to pay retribution). The owner of the car agreed to meet and brought a person with her as support.

    During the meeting, it became evident that this wasn't the first time this young man had stolen a car. The owner of the car was getting angrier and angrier...thinking this boy will never learn his lesson, but her supporter leaned in to the young man saying, "I know you....I used to BE you". He then went on to describe how his life was....and how he turned his life around. The young man that had stolen the car was very engaged in listening. Then the supporter began asking the young man what makes him happy....what he's good at (*seeing* him.....humanizing him). The young man said he's a really good artist (and his mother laughed--and then mocked him by saying, "you can't pay this lady back $4000 with YOUR art"). The car owner responded that he could, actually. She agreed to forgive his debt for artwork (encouraging him to use his talent). The young man needed art supplies...so he got a job and raised enough money to accomplish this (building up his confidence in himself in the process). Through this....the young man ended up getting involved in the community art program (and the woman was thrilled with her artwork....and the young man's change).

    This sort of love results in win/wins.This love builds up. This love overflows to others.

    Punishment, on the other hand, defeats and destroys.....lowering a person's standards for themselves.

    The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance [to the full, till it overflows]~John 10:10
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  14. Jonathan Leo

    Jonathan Leo Well-Known Member

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    Good find and excellent story
     
  15. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Exactly. Satan believes in Him because he as seen Him. Blessed are those who have not seen, but yet still believe. Faith and belief are very different things.
     
  16. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    First off.....let me just say that it wasn't too long ago that my beliefs were in alignment with yours (you can probably find some of my earlier posts that are very similar to what you're posting here).

    The thing is:.....we live in a fallen world right now--one that *does* value material things and status/power. We aren't going to be "perfected" here in this environment (I don't believe).....and, to me, salvation isn't a matter of "your in/and you're out". I believe we will ALL--eventually--be saved, because I have faith in the power of His perfect love (it's just that some are going to have more "rough edges" than others).

    So...in answer to your question? I don't believe that anyone ---once exposed to the Glory of God's perfect love....in an environment where genuine love is valued and greed, pride, and selfishness are despised-- will continue to reject Christ's love.

    It is written: "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God."~Romans 14:11
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  17. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Right. But I'm not of the mindset that "faith" is a one time thing (I mean....in the way that at one time we "put our faith in God" and there we stay.Then we're safe and "in" the group God cherishes).

    Instead.....I believe it's a continual thing. There are situations where we're doing well....but then other situations may result in us allowing fear and doubt set in (or just old reactions...knee-jerk responses that aren't best for everyone involved). I think a good example of what I mean is Peter/Cephas (Jesus' disciple, Peter) and Paul. For instance:

    ------->Paul mentions a couple encounters with Peter in Galatians that indicate that there's a bit of tension between the two. Paul makes sure to point out to his friends in Galatia that he never received any instruction from Peter in Jerusalem. In fact, it took three whole years for him to even visit with the guy (Galatians 1:18). And another fourteen years to go back (Galatians 2:1). We get it, Paul. You're a one-man wolf pack.~Cephas in Galatians, Philippians, and Philemon


    Actually, according to Paul, it's Peter who needs some instruction on what it means to follow Jesus.


    When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood self-condemned; for until certain people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But after they came, he drew back and kept himself separate for fear of the circumcision faction[…] When I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?" (Galatians 2:11-14)

    Faith is a continual and ongoing process.....not an event.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  18. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    God is no fool and has conditions for us to obtain His unconditional love....

    Really??
    What are they EXACTLY ?? Cite scripture??
     
  19. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    Most people don't and in the process forfeit peace, comfort, security, hope, and more.

    Yes the condition of God acting first, of His divine initiative.

    No, that is the truth of the matter. And apart from the Father drawing a sinner to Him, nobody will come.


    Faith of the saving kind is a free gift from God, any other kind of faith is dead, at enmity with God, and such carnal minded belief is condemned already.

    No, that sounds like the necessary consequences of judgement by a Holy God according to His Holy Law.

    Yes you are missing the fact it is not popular, quite the contrary, and has been the case for a long time now. Pentecostalism/Charasmatic movements and SBC are popular among Protestants. Both lean towards conditionalism.

    Who makes the tree? God. And when He makes the tree good, it produces fruit. When we try to prune, it produces legalism. When God prunes, it produces humility and repentance.
     
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  20. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Look up the Greek words for “faith” / “belief”. Almost the same...identical roots.
     
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