Is God Unjust to Save Some?

[grasping the after wind]

The assumption here is that all are His children. Scripture doesn’t support that.

Who created the ones that are not His?

 

[Hammster]

Who created the ones that are not His?

He did. He created the sheep and the goats.

 

[Tree of Life]

Who created the ones that are not His?

All are God's children in the sense that he created them. But not all are God's adopted children in a redemptive sense. Only those who believe in Jesus are given the authority to become children of God (John 1:12).

 

[StrivingFollower]

What about those that fall away? Did God give them a limited amount of faith? That seems kind of cruel.

 

[grasping the after wind]

He did. He created the sheep and the goats.

Which means they are all His children.

 

[grasping the after wind]

All are God's children in the sense that he created them. But not all are God's adopted children in a redemptive sense. Only those who believe in Jesus are given the authority to become children of God (John 1:12).

Are you saying one can not be a child of God and somehow become one at some point? If God is sovereign, which I do believe to be the case, and God has predestined everything that occurs, how can one become something one was not always ? If one is predestined for salvation then one must always have been God's chosen child and not have become that at some point after being disowned previously?

 

[Tree of Life]

Are you saying one can not be a child of God and somehow become one at some point? If God is sovereign, which I do believe to be the case, and God has predestined everything that occurs, how can one become something one was not always ? If one is predestined for salvation then one must always have been God's chosen child and not have become that at some point after being disowned previously?

Just because God predestines someone to be born in 1991 doesn't mean that they have always existed. They must still be born at a certain moment in time.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Just because God predestines someone to be born in 1991 doesn't mean that they have always existed. They must still be born at a certain moment in time.

What did that person do to become born?

 

[Tree of Life]

What did that person do to become born?

Nothing at all.

 

[Strong in Him]

So a God who is love must either save none or endeavor to save all? He cannot, in love, save some?

Why would he?
God created us in his image, Genesis 1:26-27 - unless you believe that applied only to Adam and Eve. He saw us before we were even born and knows everything about us, Psalms 139 - unless you believe that has limited application.
Mankind sinned, and the relationship with God was broken, Genesis 3. ALL have sinned and fallen short of his glory, Romans 3:23. The wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23.
Christ died for sinners, Romans 5:8 and for ALL, 2 Corinthians 5:14. He came to reconcile people to God, Romans 5:11; 2 Corinthians 5:18-20.
None of us can ever do anything to earn this reconciliation, salvation and peace, Ephesians 2:8-9.

So on what basis would God say, "I'll save you .... but not you" - a whim?
It wouldn't be because he hadn't created the people he chose not to save; Scripture says that everything was created by God, through Jesus.
It wouldn't be because the saved had done more good deeds than the non saved; Scripture says that we are saved by grace, not works.

God IS love, and 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 says that love is kind ...love always protects ... always hopes ... always perseveres. How is it showing love to say "you deserve death so you're going to receive it - but your sister/friend/parent/twin is going to receive eternal life and every spiritual blessing in Christ - just because I feel like giving it to them, and rejecting you"?
I wouldn't want to worship a god who behaved like that. How then do we preach the Gospel? Whatever people said, did or believed, God would save the ones he wanted to save.

If God chose to save none, would that be inconsistent with his love?

Mankind sinned against God.
As the one who was hurt and sinned against, God had the right to respond as he wanted. He chose to show mercy and give second, third 6th and 20th chances. When dam and Eve were ashamed because they were naked, what did God do; took the bloodied skin off an animal and made clothes out of it for them, Genesis 3:21. Their sin had consequences, and he punished them - but he clothed them to hide their nakedness as well.
Even by the time of Cain and Able, people were offering sacrifices to God. Moses gave them a sacrificial system, where the blood of animals atoned for their sin - and Hebrews says that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness, Hebrews 9:22.

God didn't have to do any of that - he would have been perfectly justified in saying, "you have sinned against me, I'm going to punish and kill you." He chose not to; he chose to send his Son to die for us sinners, Romans 5:8 - thus showing that he IS love,1 John 3:16. If God had killed people as soon as they sinned a) the world would be empty and no one would live for very long, b) there'd be no need for Jesus to have come, and c) he would show himself to be a God of wrath and anger - not that anyone would live long enough to see it. Why would Jesus offer his life as a perfect sacrifice for sinners - if God killed, and therefore didn't save, sinners?

 

[Hammster]

Which means they are all His children.

No. The Father only sent the Son for the sheep.

 

[Strong in Him]

No. The Father only sent the Son for the sheep.

Anyone who accepts and believes in Jesus, can become one of his sheep.

Otherwise you're saying that God asked Jesus to go through all that agony for only a few - maybe 10% of the entire world's population?
That ALL people were created by God, through Jesus, but that Jesus was to lay down his life for only a few select ones - and that God sits in heaven saying, "you may be saved, but not you; I made both of you but only one will be with me forever."

And there would be no real point in preaching the Gospel - God would know who he had marked out for salvation and would save them whatever they, or we, said or did.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This is a very odd bunch of sentences. I don't see a meaningful difference between the concepts of justice and fairness.

The great epiphany of Luther's is that God's justice is about justifying sinners. Biblical Justice is setting things right, restoring what is lost, healing what is wounded.

It would be fair to send us all to hell, it is God's justice that we be reconciled to Him and have life everlasting.

 

[Hammster]

Anyone who accepts and believes in Jesus, can become one of his sheep.

I’ll just stop right there. There’s nothing to support this. You are either a sheep or a goat. You don’t become one or the other.

 

[Tree of Life]

I’ll just stop right there. There’s nothing to support this. You are either a sheep or a goat. You don’t become one or the other.

While it's true that an individual is either elect or reprobate (and that may be what you mean here), it is not consistent with the Bible or Reformed theology to say that one cannot be translated from alienation to friendship with God.

The Bible consistently teaches that the elect were at one time alienated from God, but now have been brought near by the blood of Christ. They were at one time citizens of darkness, but have been transferred to the kingdom of light. Etc...

Conversion is still a real thing.

 

[Hammster]

While it's true that an individual is either elect or reprobate (and that may be what you mean here), it is not consistent with the Bible or Reformed theology to say that one cannot be translated from alienation to friendship with God.

The Bible consistently teaches that the elect were at one time alienated from God, but now have been brought near by the blood of Christ. They were at one time citizens of darkness, but have been transferred to the kingdom of light. Etc...

Conversion is still a real thing.

Being alienated is one thing. But Christ said He gave Himself for the sheep. He did not say He gave Himself for the goats to become sheep.

He said He came for the lost sheep of Israel. He also said He came for some not of that fold. But they were/are all sheep.

 

[Tree of Life]

Being alienated is one thing. But Christ said He gave Himself for the sheep. He did not say He gave Himself for the goats to become sheep.

He said He came for the lost sheep of Israel. He also said He came for some not of that fold. But they were/are all sheep.

That's true. But you're also mixing passages here. John 10 mentions nothing of goats. Matthew 25 introduces the sheep and goat language, but for different purposes. Yet John 10 does explicitly say that there are many who are not Jesus' sheep and that he did not come to save them.

 

[Hammster]

That's true. But you're also mixing passages here. John 10 mentions nothing of goats. Matthew 25 introduces the sheep and goat language, but for different purposes. Yet John 10 does explicitly say that there are many who are not Jesus' sheep and that he did not come to save them.

Jesus and scripture are consistent in the use of sheep, going back to the OT. They are always God’s people.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Before we go to the scriptures I’d like to say I don’t see why you can’t simply address what I stated. Let’s just make it simple with one question, according to Calvinism can someone become a believer if they are not chosen by God?

 

[Hammster]

Before we go to the scriptures I’d like to say I don’t see why you can’t simply address what I stated. Let’s just make it simple with one question, according to Calvinism can someone become a believer if they are not chosen by God?

Who are you responding to?