Is God the Author of Sin?

[Humble_Disciple]

By choosing to save some and not others (Romans 9:11-23), God is not a puppet master, forcing those outside the elect to commit sins contrary to their own wills and desires. Instead, God leaves them to their natural fallen condition:

From a theological viewpoint, the definition of the will is viewed in light of the revealed, biblical truths of original sin and the spiritual depravity of man. These two truths render the definition of “will” in regard to fallen man as “captive to sin” (Acts 8:23), a “slave of sin” (John 8:34; Romans 6:16-17) and subject only to its “master,” which is sin (Romans 6:14). As such, although the will of man is “free” to do as it wishes, it wishes to act according to its nature, and since the nature of the fallen will is sinful, every intent of the thoughts of the fallen man’s heart is “only evil continually” (Genesis 6:5, cf. Genesis 8:21). He, being naturally rebellious to that which is spiritually good (Romans 8:7-8; 1 Corinthians 2:14), “is bent only on rebellion” (Proverbs 17:11). Essentially, man is “free” to do as he wishes, and he does just that, but man simply cannot do that which is contrary to his nature. What man “wills” to do is subject to and determined solely by his nature.
https://www.gotquestions.org/compatibilism.html

By the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, God’s elect are enabled to turn from sin and receive faith in Jesus Christ:

For the Calvinist, Ephesians 2:1 is key: “And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.” Without Christ, people are spiritually dead. Dead people cannot do anything. A spiritually dead person can no more do anything to remedy that situation than a physically dead person can climb out of a grave. Therefore, God must regenerate people, making them spiritually alive, before they can trust in Christ as Savior (John 3:8)...
So, does regeneration come before faith? John 6:44 says, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.” Second Corinthians 4:4 declares, “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” It is undeniable that God must do something to enable people to believe. At the very least, God must draw people to Christ and open their eyes.
https://www.gotquestions.org/regeneration-before-faith.html

This doesn’t mean that Christians will never sin, but those who show no evidence of regeneration whatsoever have reason to doubt that their conversion was genuine:

2 Peter 1
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Basil the Great]

This thread reminds me of the film "The Shoes of the Fisherman", wherein a Catholic theologian speculates that God might be the author of evil, but he is called on the carpet for his controversial writings.

 

[d taylor]

satan brought forth sin. God when He created satan, He God allowed satan to look to himself in pride, in all his beauty and perfection. And sought to be like his creator (the 5 i wills)

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Although a man is considered unable to choose against his desires, which are caused by his sin nature or God's intervention, the moral responsibility of sin lies with him. He chose to do it, therefore he is held responsible. Not what caused him to choose, but he that chooses is held responsible.

This understanding of moral responsibility absolves God of authorship of sin; man, as caused by fall, is naturally "inclined to all evil" (Heidelberg Catechism, Q.7). Whether God decrees the fall of man or not, God is not thought to force this evil inclination upon man; but rather, He "gave [man] over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper" (Rom. 1:28; NASB). God "gave over" men who "suppress the truth in unrighteousness . . . For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God" (Rom. 1:18, 21). The evil nature of man was not created or caused by God, but is a corruption of God's good creation (cf. Gen. 1:31).
https://www.theopedia.com/compatibilism

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Unlike our Wesleyan brothers and sisters, Calvinists don’t believe that sinless perfection is possible in this lifetime.

On the other hand, if you live your entire life without any evidence of regeneration, that’s reason to doubt that you were truly saved in the first place.

Sometimes God holds back His sanctifying grace from His elect ones, leaving them to manifold temptations, so they will humble themselves and draw closer to Him.

This is from the 1689 London Baptist Confession, a doctrinal standard of Reformed Baptists, as adapted from the Westminster Confession:

The most wise, righteous, and gracious God doth oftentimes leave for a season his own children to manifold temptations and the corruptions of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled; and to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon himself; and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for other just and holy ends. So that whatsoever befalls any of his elect is by his appointment, for his glory, and their good.
( 2 Chronicles 32:25, 26, 31; 2 Corinthians 12:7-9; Romans 8:28 )
https://www.arbca.com/1689-chapter5

 

[Humble_Disciple]

While teachers of Lordship salvation like John MacArthur claim to to be Calvinists, their teaching might be closer to Wesleyan perfectionism than traditional Calvinism. Unlike our Wesleyan brothers and sisters, Calvinists don’t believe that sinless perfection is possible in this lifetime.

 

[JM]

I have no problem with saying God is the author of evil or sin. We find examples in the scriptures that clearly teach God ordained and made sure specific sins would happen and that in them He had a purpose. God never has to force a sinner to sin.

 

[JesusFreak78]

Though I don't believe God is the author of sin, I believe His decreed will determines everything in this word to happen just the way we see it unfold. But instead of saying He's the "author" of sin, I will say He ordains the mean for the sin to happen. Man in his fallen nature doesn't need an excuse to sin, but rather he needs to be restrained from sinning.

It's only through the Holy Spirit I have the strength to not sin, and my desire is to live a holy life instead.

 

[renniks]

Sometimes God holds back His sanctifying grace from His elect ones, leaving them to manifold temptations, so they will humble themselves and draw closer to Him.

Circular reasoning. If he does this it's so that they can be santified. So you are saying he withholds sanctification so they can find sanctification.

 

[renniks]

I have no problem with saying God is the author of evil or sin. We find examples in the scriptures that clearly teach God ordained and made sure specific sins would happen and that in them He had a purpose. God never has to force a sinner to sin.

God cannot be the author of evil. God isn't tempted nor does he tempt anyone. If God ordains sin, that renders it inevitable for the person involved. Which would be God causing that person to be tempted.

 

[JM]

God cannot be the author of evil. God isn't tempted nor does he tempt anyone. If God ordains sin, that renders it inevitable for the person involved. Which would be God causing that person to be tempted.

This has been dealt with too many times to count.

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].” Isaiah 45:7

No matter how you translate “evil” in this passage, the Lord did it.

Zanchius explains how the ultimate end of all things will result in good…somehow.:

God, as the primary and efficient cause of all things, is not only the Author of those actions done by His elect as actions, but also as they are good actions, whereas, on the other hand, though He may be said to be the Author of all the actions done by the wicked, yet He is not the Author of them in a moral and compound sense as they are sinful; but physically, simply and sensu diviso as they are mere actions, abstractedly from all consideration of the goodness or badness of them.

Although there is no action whatever which is not in some sense either good or bad, yet we can easily conceive of an action, purely as such, without adverting to the quality of it, so that the distinction between an action itself and its denomination of good or evil is very obvious and natural.

In and by the elect, therefore, God not only produces works and actions through His almighty power, but likewise, through the salutary influences of His Spirit, first makes their persons good, and then their actions so too; but, in and by the reprobate, He produces actions by His power alone, which actions, as neither issuing from faith nor being wrought with a view to the Divine glory, nor done in the manner prescribed by the Divine Word, are, on these accounts, properly denominated evil. Hence we see that God does not, immediately and per se, infuse iniquity into the wicked; but, as Luther expresses it, powerfully excites them to action, and withholds those gracious influences of His Spirit, without which every action is necessarily evil. That God either directly or remotely excites bad men as well as good ones to action cannot be denied by any but Atheists, or by those who carry their notions of free-will and human independency so high as to exclude the Deity from all actual operation in and among His creatures, which is little short of Atheism. Every work performed, whether good or evil, is done in strength and by the power derived immediately from God Himself, “in whom all men live, move, and have their being” (Acts 17.28). As, at first, without Him was not anything made which was made, so, now, without Him is not anything done which is done. We have no power or faculty, whether corporal or intellectual, but what we received from God, subsists by Him, and is exercised in subserviency to His will and appointment. It is He who created, preserves, actuates and directs all things. But it by no means follows, from these premises, that God is therefore the cause of sin, for sin is nothing but auomia, illegality, want of conformity to the Divine law (1 John 3.4), a mere privation of rectitude; consequently, being itself a thing purely negative, it can have no positive or efficient cause, but only a negative and deficient one…[end quote]​

Before Zanchius brought us to this point, showing that God acting “directly or remotely” is not the “Author of them in a moral and compound sense,” he teaches in Position 2;

That God often lets the wicked go on to more ungodliness, which He does (a) negatively by withholding that grace which alone can restrain them from evil; (b) remotely, by the providential concourse and mediation of second causes, which second causes, meeting and acting in concert with the corruption of the reprobate’s unregenerate nature, produce sinful effects; (c) judicially, or in a way of judgment. “The King’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of waters; He turneth it whithersoever He will” (Prov. 21.1); and if the King’s heart, why not the hearts of all men? “Out of the mouth of the Most High proceedeth not evil and good?” (Lam. 3.38). Hence we find that the Lord bid Shimei curse David (2 Sam. 16.10); that He moved David himself to number the people (compare 1 Chron. 21.1 with 2 Sam. 24.1); stirred up Joseph’s brethren to sell him into Egypt (Genesis 50.20); positively and immediately hardened the heart of Pharaoh (Exod. 4.21); delivered up David’s wives to be defiled by Absalom (2 Sam. 12.11; 16.22); sent a lying spirit to deceive Ahab (1 Kings 22.20-23), and mingled a perverse spirit in the midst of Egypt, that is, made that nation perverse, obdurate and stiff-necked (Isa. 19.14). To cite other instances would be almost endless, and after these, quite unnecessary, all being summed up in that express passage, “I make peace and create evil; I the Lord do all these things” (Isa. 45.7). See farther, 1 Sam. 16.14; Psalm 105.25; Jer. 13.12,13; Acts 2.23, & 4.28; Rom. 11.8; 2 Thess. 2.11, every one of which implies more than a bare permission of sin. Bucer asserts this, not only in the place referred to below, but continually throughout his works, particularly on Matt. 6. § 2, where this is the sense of his comments on that petition, “Lead us not into temptation”: “It is abundantly evident, from most express testimonies of Scripture, that God, occasionally in the course of His providence, puts both elect and reprobate persons into circumstances of temptation, by which temptation are meant not only those trials that are of an outward, afflictive nature, but those also that are inward and spiritual, even such as shall cause the persons so tempted actually to turn aside from the path of duty, to commit sin, and involve both themselves and others in evil. Hence we find the elect complaining, ‘O Lord, why hast Thou made us to err from Thy ways, and hardened our hearts from Thy fear?’ (Isaiah 63.17). But there is also a kind of temptation, which is peculiar to the non-elect, whereby God, in a way of just judgment, makes them totally blind and obdurate, inasmuch as they are vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.” (See also his exposition of Rom. 9.)[end quote]​

 

[JM]

God cannot be the author of evil. God isn't tempted nor does he tempt anyone. If God ordains sin, that renders it inevitable for the person involved. Which would be God causing that person to be tempted.

ca·lam·i·ty

noun
noun: calamity; plural noun: calamities
an event causing great and often sudden damage or distress; a disaster.

I know modern translations prefer to translate the Hebrew word “ra” as calamity…what do you say?​

Word Study Dictionary READS:

ra‛, ָרָעה

rā‛āh: An adjective meaning bad, evil. The basic meaning of this word displays ten or more various shades of the meaning of evil according to its contextual usage. It means bad in a moral and ethical sense and is used to describe, along with good, the entire spectrum of good and evil; hence, it depicts evil in an absolute, negative sense, as when it describes the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:9; Gen 3:5, Gen 3:22). It was necessary for a wise king to be able to discern the evil or the good in the actions of his people (Ecc 12:14); men and women are characterized as evil (1Sa 30:22; Est_7:6; Jer 2:33). The human heart is evil all day long (Gen 6:5) from childhood (Gen 8:21); yet the people of God are to purge evil from among them (Deu 17:7). The Lord is the final arbiter of whether something was good or evil; if something was evil in the eyes of the Lord, there is no further court of appeals (Deu 9:18; 1Ki 14:22). The day of the Lord’s judgment is called an evil day, a day of reckoning and condemnation (Amo 6:3). Jacob would have undergone grave evil (i.e., pain, misery, and ultimate disaster) if he had lost Benjamin (Gen 44:34). The word can refer to circumstances as evil, as when the Israelite foremen were placed in a grave situation (Exo 5:19; 2Ki 14:10).

The word takes on the aspect of something disagreeable, unwholesome, or harmful. Jacob evaluated his life as evil and destructive (Gen_47:9; Num_20:5); and the Israelites considered the wilderness as a threatening, terrifying place. The Canaanite women were evil in the eyes of Isaac (i.e., displeasing [Gen 28:8]). The rabble’s cry within Israel for meat was displeasing in the eyes of Moses (Num 11:10). This word describes the vicious animal that killed Joseph, so Jacob thought (Gen 37:33). The despondent countenances of persons can be described by this word; the baker’s and the butler’s faces were downcast because of their dreams (Gen 40:7). It can also describe one who is heavy in heart (Pro 25:20).

In a literal sense, the word depicts something that is of poor quality or even ugly in appearance. The weak, lean cows of Pharaoh’s dream were decrepit, ugly-looking (Gen 41:3, Gen 41:20, Gen 41:27); poisonous drinking water was described as bad (2Ki 2:19; 2Ki_4:41). From these observations, it is clear that the word can be used to attribute a negative aspect to nearly anything.

Used as a noun, the word indicates realities that are inherently evil, wicked, or bad; the psalmist feared no evil (Psa 23:4). The noun also depicts people of wickedness, that is, wicked people. Aaron characterized the people of Israel as inherently wicked in order to clear himself (Exo 32:22). Calamities, failures, and miseries are all connotations of this word when it is used as a noun. (end quote)

Scriptural Quotations to Consider:

Isaiah 45:7

KJV- I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

ESV- I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Lamentations 3:37-38

KJV- Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

ESV- Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and bad come?

A Quotation from Gordon H. Clark:

The Scofield Bible is a good example of how Arminians try to escape from the plain meaning of the verse. Scofield says, “ra, translated ‘sorrow,’ ‘wretchedness,’ ‘adversity,’ ‘afflictions,’ ‘calamities,’ but never translated SIN. God created evil only in the sense that he made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.”

Now the most remarkable point about Scofield’s note is that he told the truth when he said, “RA . . . [is] never translated sin.” How could he have made such a statement, knowing it was true? The only answer is that he must have examined every instance of RA in the Hebrew text and then he must have determined that in no case did the King James translate it sin. And this is absolutely true. But if he compared every instance of RA with its translation in every case, he could not have failed to note that RA in Genesis 6:5 and in a number of other places is translated WICKEDNESS. In fact RA is translated wickedness some fifty times. Scofield could not have failed to notice this; so he says with just truth, RA is never translated sin. Since Scofield favors the word EVIL, a partial list of verses in which this translation occurs will be given; and second there will be a partial list where WICKED or WICKEDNESS is used.

Going through the Bible, Scofield must have read as far as Genesis 2:9, 17; 3:5, 22; 6:5; 8:21; 44:4; 48:16; 50:15, 17, 20. “The knowledge of good and EVIL” is simply a knowledge of sorrow or calamity; it is primarily a knowledge of disobedience and sin. Similarly, Genesis 3:5, 22 refers as much to sin as to its punishment. In fact Genesis 3:22 hardly refers to punishment at all. True, Adam was banished from the garden; but the word EVIL in the verse refers to his disobedience and sin.

Whatever lame excuse can be given for excluding sin and retaining only punishment in the previous four verses, Genesis 6:5 is clearly and indisputably a reference to sin. God did not see “adversity” or “afflictions”; he saw sinful thoughts. RA, in this verse at any rate, means sin. The same is true of Genesis 8:21. In fact sin and its punishment are separated here. God will not again curse or smite, as he had just done, for man’s heart is evil. The flood was a punishment, but the evil was the sinful heart of man.

Toward the end of Genesis RA refers to an alleged theft, many sins from which the Angel had redeemed Jacob, and three times the brothers’ sin against Joseph. In 50:17 again the sin is easily distinguishable from the feared punishment.

Is it necessary to plod through all the Old Testament to show that RA often means sin as distinct from its punishment? It should not be necessary; but to show the pervasiveness of the doctrine and the perverseness of Arminianism, something from II Chronicles will be listed: 22:4; 29:6; 36:5, 9, 12. Ahab did EVIL in the sight of the Lord. Our fathers have trespassed and done evil in the eyes of the Lord. Manasseh did evil in the sight of the Lord. He wrought much evil in the sight of the Lord. Jehoiakim did evil in the sight of the Lord. . . .

Evil, RA, is not once TRANSLATED sin. Very strange, but true.

Then there is Isaiah 56:2; 57:1; 59:7, 15; 65:12; 66:4. All instances of RA, or EVIL.

Now, if Scofield knew that RA was never translated SIN, he must have known that it was often translated WICKEDNESS. WICKEDNESS or WICKED, as the translation of RA occurs in Genesis 6:5; 13:13; 38:7; 39:9. Also in Deuteronomy 13:11 and 17:2. Also in I Samuel 30:22 and II Samuel 3:39. I Kings 2:44; Nehemiah 9:35; Esther 7:6, 9, 25. And Proverbs 21:12; 26:23, 26. Nor are these the only instances.

Scofield told the literal truth when he said it is never translated SIN. But nothing could be more false than his statement, “ God created evil ONLY in the sense that he made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.”

The scriptural meaning of the word RA, has now been abundantly made clear. But there is another point too. If RA means simply external calamities, then the word PEACE, which God also creates, can mean only military peace. The phrases are parallel. But this interpretation reduces the verse, or THIS PART OF THE VERSE, to triviality. Even verse one can hardly be restricted to purely political matters. Verse three speaks of treasures of darkness, hidden riches, and the knowledge of God. Jacob my servant and Israel my elect are not phrases to be restricted to politics and economics. Verse 6 speaks of the extension of the knowledge of God throughout the world. Then comes “I make peace and create evil.” Merely military peace? Not peace with God? The next verse speaks of righteousness dropping down from heaven, not like dew, but like pouring rain. Bring forth salvation, let righteousness spring up together. I the Lord have created it.

O, Arminian, Arminian, thou that distortest the prophets and misinterpretest them that are sent unto thee; how often have I told your children the plain truth . . . and ye would not let them understand!

There is still more in this chapter from Isaiah. Once again we find the potter and the clay. It indicates that God is not responsible to man. Woe to the man who complains that God has made him or anyone else a vessel of dishonor. The clay has no ‘rights’ against the potter. Nor does it have any free will to decide what sort of a bowl or jug it shall be.

Gordon H. Clark, Predestination, Presbyterian & Reformed, 1987, pp. 185-188

 

[renniks]

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].” Isaiah 45:7

No matter how you translate “evil” in this passage, the Lord did it.

No, it's calamity for a nation that disobeyed God.
That is very different than God creating evil.
All he has to do is let things take their natural course, to create calamity for the disobedient.

 

[renniks]

, Arminian, Arminian, thou that distortest the prophets and misinterpretest them that are sent unto thee; how often have I told your children the plain truth . . . and ye would not let them understand!

Adding to scripture is a very dangerous thing to do . It shows gross disrespect for the Bible.

 

[renniks]

There is still more in this chapter from Isaiah. Once again we find the potter and the clay.

And how God molds the clay is totally dependent on the people's actions.
"and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned."

 

[TedT]

By choosing to save some and not others (Romans 9:11-23), God is not a puppet master, forcing those outside the elect to commit sins contrary to their own wills and desires. Instead, God leaves them to their natural fallen condition:

IF HE creates that natural condition as evil and under judgement due to inheriting Adam's sin, then HE is indeed a puppet master manipulating evil for HIS pleasure.

HE did not have to create thee and me in Adam's sin as the creation of Adam and Eve as supposedly innocent would prove.

So unless our natural sinful condition is due to our own previous free will decision to be evil in HIS sight before our election and before our conception into mankind, then this contention is just another run around a woozle bush.

 

[JM]

No, it's calamity for a nation that disobeyed God.
That is very different than God creating evil.
All he has to do is let things take their natural course, to create calamity for the disobedient.

You are ignoring the rest of my post. Oh well I could care less.

 

[JM]

IF HE creates that natural condition as evil and under judgement due to inheriting Adam's sin, then HE is indeed a puppet master manipulating evil for HIS pleasure.

HE did not have to create thee and me in Adam's sin as the creation of Adam and Eve as supposedly innocent would prove.

So unless our natural sinful condition is due to our own previous free will decision to be evil in HIS sight before our election and before our conception into mankind, then this contention is just another run around a woozle bush.

All things are worked after the council of His own will. No? Who does God take advice from? Does God learn?

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Is Calvinism's teaching of unconditional election an incentive enough for Calvinists to avoid sin? If they fall into sin, can't they just say that God withheld His grace to prevent them from sinning? I'm trying to be as fair as possible in asking this question.

 

[JM]

Is Calvinism's teaching of unconditional election an incentive enough for Calvinists to avoid sin? If they fall into sin, can't they just say that God withheld His grace to prevent them from sinning? I'm trying to be as fair as possible in asking this question.

A believer doesn't have to be convinced of the sinfulness of sin so the question is misplaced. Do you need to be convinced to avoid sin? Do you fall into sin willingly or try your best to avoid it because you love Christ and what He has done for you?