Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering?

he-man

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It concerns "anyone" and everyone:31For no one is cast off
James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. What does it say? that seeketh him!
Lam 3:25 The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him. 31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever:
Mar 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Ps 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
 
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RaymondG

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Not in the least. Men are born into sin just as fish are
born into water. You can acknowledge being wet and still
strive to be dry.
Science says that even the fish came out of the water and started walking on dry land.....
 
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SkyWriting

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I can't. But God can:

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

constrain: compel or force (someone) toward a particular course of action.

That would be for believers who think Christ died for us.
Others are not so compelled.
 
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he-man

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Not in the least. Men are born into sin just as fish are born into water. You can acknowledge being wet and still
strive to be dry.
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
 
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CrystalDragon

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Men are slaves to sin only as they make that their choice of options, based on "Freewill" freely given to all by God.

God does not make people sin. He offers options, and allows every person to choose for themselves, based upon subtleties of desire, need, and curiosity.

If Men are found to be slaves to sin, it is because that was their freewill choice from among more than one selection.



What they "inherited" from Adam, was free choice to sin or not to sin. "Sin nature?" Listen to scripture instead of "Doctrines of MEN" - "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Rom 2:14-16)




"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deut 24:16)

"But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin."(II Kings 14:6)

"Now it came to pass, when the kingdom was established to him, that he slew his servants that had killed the king his father. 4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin."(II Chronicles 25:3)

"The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? 3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. 5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, 6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, 7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; 8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath
withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, 9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.

10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, 11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge,and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, 13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like, 15 That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife, 16 Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment, 17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity. 19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath
trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."(Ezekiel 18)

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


Rergarding those "own sin" verses, there are other verses where God says he will punish children for their parents' sins, to the third and fourth generation.
 
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SkyWriting

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Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Do not die my brothers?
Some letters are personal.
 
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Theo Book

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Rergarding those "own sin" verses, there are other verses where God says he will punish children for their parents' sins, to the third and fourth generation.

Different time, different circumstances.
 
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Larry Wilgus

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Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.
Wow - sadly the entire premise of your argument is contrary to the scriptures. God isn't at fault for any of man's woes. Yes, sin was inherited to all humanity because Adam was our legal representative before God. What Adam did or didn't do would effect all of mankind. Because of the seed-time and harvest principle, the seed of Adam was passed on to every human being. God doesn't need evil to show Himself good. He is good all the time. PLEASE - let's represent God to the world scripturally.
 
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Larry Wilgus

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No, He's been a great parent and always will be to me/us.
He didn't cause people to sin more.
Explanation of Romans 5:20
By Christ and his righteousness, we have more and greater privileges than we lost by the offence of Adam. The moral law showed that many thoughts, tempers, words, and actions, were sinful, thus transgressions were multiplied. Not making sin to abound the more, but discovering the sinfulness of it, even as the letting in a clearer light into a room, discovers the dust and filth which were there before, but were not seen. The sin of Adam, and the effect of corruption in us, are the abounding of that offence which appeared on the entrance of the law. And the terrors of the law make gospel comforts the more sweet. Thus God the Holy Spirit has, by the blessed apostle, delivered to us a most important truth, full of consolation, suited to our need as sinners. Whatever one may have above another, every man is a sinner against God, stands condemned by the law, and needs pardon. A righteousness that is to justify cannot be made up of a mixture of sin and holiness. There can be no title to an eternal reward without a pure and spotless righteousness: let us look for it, even to the righteousness of Christ.
(From Bible hub)
Amazing great response! Blessings to you. God is good all the time!
 
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Larry Wilgus

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I didn't change one word of this post, which came from another thread.

Those thinking that "good" or even "very good" is equivalent of 'perfect' need to be scripturally instructed a bit more. Jesus wasn't even born 'perfect', but had to achieve that position. And he had to do so, even though he was born 'sinless' and remained so, his entire life.

ROM 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

HEB 2:10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer/JESUS of their salvation perfect through suffering.


Hopefully all would agree that Jesus was still within the "Good" and "Acceptable" will of God prior to reaching "perfection". I know of no scripture that would lead us to think otherwise. IOW, Adam/Eve were never 'perfect'. Had they been so, they never would have sinned....just like "the second Adam" never sinned, on His way to perfection.
I'm blessed by everything you have posted until you said "Adam/Eve were never 'perfect.' Had they been so, they never would have sinned." Wow! How did God make anything that wasn't perfect before the fall? Sin resulted in instantaneous change and altered God's complete creation.
 
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ClementofA

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Wow - sadly the entire premise of your argument is contrary to the scriptures. God isn't at fault for any of man's woes. Yes, sin was inherited to all humanity because Adam was our legal representative before God. What Adam did or didn't do would effect all of mankind. Because of the seed-time and harvest principle, the seed of Adam was passed on to every human being. God doesn't need evil to show Himself good. He is good all the time. PLEASE - let's represent God to the world scripturally.

I never denied God's goodness or said He is at "fault". Quite the contrary, if you read the post.

What is not "scriptural" is the Satanic doctrine of God being a sadist for eternity.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
 
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Larry Wilgus

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But why would God need to have needed a replacement covenant? He could have created a Covenant that worked the first time, right?
The first covenant (old covenant) was never meant or designed to justify us before God. The reasoning behind the first covenant was to reveal our inability to conquer the dominance of sin - passed onto all humanity. Rules and regulations were established to curb sin, but only intensified the desire to bask in sin. Sacrifices of animals in the old covenant were shadows and pictures of the Perfect Sacrifice of Jesus at the cross that would re-establish us in righteousness by faith.
 
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Larry Wilgus

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