Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering?

[he-man]

The Problem: The rational dilemma in theodicy has been commonly expressed in terms of logical propositions or some form of syllogism. For example:
I. a. If God is perfectly good, then He must want to abolish all evil and suffering. b. If God is omnipotent (all powerful), then He must be able to abolish all evil and suffering. II. Evil and suffering exist in the world in great quantity. III. Therefore, God cannot be both perfectly good and also omnipotent. The Solution:To counter the accusations of unbelieving philosophers and also to provide comfort to believers, the task for the Christian apologist has been to develop a rational and biblical response to this logical difficulty. First, most people do not understand the terribleness of sin and its consequences. Humans were created to be able to choose (being in the image of God) and without the possible choice of rebelling against God, they really would not have choice at all.

He shall incinerate G2618 κατακαίω From G2596 and G2545; to burn down (to the ground), that is, consume wholly: - burn (up, utterly) [by unextinguishable].G762 ἄσβεστος asbestos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G4570; not extinguished, that is, (by implication) perpetual: - not to be quenched, unquenchable.
What does "Agree with your adversary quickly" mean?? Agree with thine adversary quickly - Adversary, αντιδικος, Thine Adversary, αντιδικος, Thine adversary - A man that is opposed to us in law. It here means a creditor; a man who has a just claim on us. [BARNES] Lest at any time the adversary should deliver thee to the judge, a superior magistrate in a higher court; for if the creditor would, he could oblige the debtor to go with him to the supreme court of judicature, and try the cause there; for so say the Jewish (i); canons: [GILL]
Now so you can understand Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." It means anyone who opposes God is an enemy, and He will incinerate burn (up, utterly). the chaff, the enemy, with perpetual fire,
Now what Isaiah means is that there are no other gods and that He is the only GOD, there is no "EVIL-god" no foreign gods, just the ONE and only GOD. Isaiah 43:10 " You are My witnesses," says the LORD, " And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. (11) I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. (12) I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, And there was no foreign god among you; Therefore you are My witnesses," Says the LORD, "that I am God.
Now consider that it is GOD who will burn up the chaff with the unquenchable fire that we call hell fire and brimstone!
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but He will incinerate burn (up, utterly). the chaff, the enemy, with perpetual fire,
Did you know that GOD puts the candle of the WICKED out thereby destroying them as they are stubble and chaff like the ungodly tares who shall perish?
Job 21:17 How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.
18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.
Ps 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Now the ungodly are the bad, chaff, stubble, tares, and He will incinerate burn (up, utterly). the chaff, the enemy, with perpetual fire, Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net ... - This parable does not differ in meaning from that of the tares. The gospel is compared to a net dragging along on the bottom of a lake, and collecting all - good and bad. The gospel may be expected to do the same; but in the end of the world, when the net “is drawn in,” the bad will be separated from the good; the one will be cast away, and the other saved. [BARNES] and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away; as fishermen used to do; though this last office seems, by the application of the parable, to be what will be performed by angels; who, as many as they find to have a good work of grace wrought and finished in their souls, they will gather into Christ's barn, into the everlasting habitations, the mansions in Christ's Father's house, he is gone to prepare: but as for the bad, who shall appear to be destitute of the grace of God, and righteousness of Christ, notwithstanding their profession of religion, they shall be rejected, as good for nothing, and shall be cast into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. [GILL] and He will incinerate burn (up, utterly). the chaff, the enemy, with perpetual fire,

 

[disciple1]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

As far as sin is concerned you only sin if your under law, I'm not under law but grace.
Romans chapter 4
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
God also created good works for us to do, not because we must, but because we want to because of Gods love for us.
If you spend your life studying the bible you get faith, faith comes from studying the bible.

 

[he-man]

If you spend your life studying the bible you get faith, faith comes from studying the bible.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge

He shall incinerate G2618 κατακαίω From G2596 and G2545; to burn down (to the ground), that is, consume wholly: - burn (up, utterly) [by unextinguishable].G762 ἄσβεστος asbestos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G4570; not extinguished, that is, (by implication) perpetual: - not to be quenched, unquenchable.
What does "Agree with your adversary quickly" mean?? Agree with thine adversary quickly - Adversary, αντιδικος, Thine Adversary, αντιδικος, Thine adversary - A man that is opposed to us in law. It here means a creditor; a man who has a just claim on us. [BARNES] Lest at any time the adversary should deliver thee to the judge, a superior magistrate in a higher court; for if the creditor would, he could oblige the debtor to go with him to the supreme court of judicature, and try the cause there; for so say the Jewish (i); canons: [GILL]
Now so you can understand Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." It means anyone who opposes God is an enemy, and He will incinerate burn (up, utterly). the chaff, the enemy, with perpetual fire,
Now what Isaiah means is that there are no other gods and that He is the only GOD, there is no "EVIL-god" no foreign gods, just the ONE and only GOD. Isaiah 43:10 " You are My witnesses," says the LORD, " And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. (11) I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. (12) I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, And there was no foreign god among you; Therefore you are My witnesses," Says the LORD, "that I am God.
Now consider that it is GOD who will burn up the chaff with the unquenchable fire that we call hell fire and brimstone!
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but He will incinerate burn (up, utterly). the chaff, the enemy, with perpetual fire,
Did you know that GOD puts the candle of the WICKED out thereby destroying them as they are stubble and chaff like the ungodly tares who shall perish?
Job 21:17 How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.
18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.
Ps 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Now the ungodly are the bad, chaff, stubble, tares, and He will incinerate burn (up, utterly). the chaff, the enemy, with perpetual fire, Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net ... - This parable does not differ in meaning from that of the tares. The gospel is compared to a net dragging along on the bottom of a lake, and collecting all - good and bad. The gospel may be expected to do the same; but in the end of the world, when the net “is drawn in,” the bad will be separated from the good; the one will be cast away, and the other saved. [BARNES] and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away; as fishermen used to do; though this last office seems, by the application of the parable, to be what will be performed by angels; who, as many as they find to have a good work of grace wrought and finished in their souls, they will gather into Christ's barn, into the everlasting habitations, the mansions in Christ's Father's house, he is gone to prepare: but as for the bad, who shall appear to be destitute of the grace of God, and righteousness of Christ, notwithstanding their profession of religion, they shall be rejected, as good for nothing, and shall be cast into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. [GILL] and He will incinerate burn (up, utterly). the chaff, the enemy, with perpetual fire,

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?[YLT]
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit - What a terrible sentence is this against Christless pastors, and Christless hearers! Every tree that produceth not good fruit, εκκοπτεται, is to be now cut down; the act of excision is now taking place: the curse of the Lord is even now on the head and the heart of every false teacher, and impenitent hearer.[CLARKE]
e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge

 

[disciple1]

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?[YLT]
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit - What a terrible sentence is this against Christless pastors, and Christless hearers! Every tree that produceth not good fruit, εκκοπτεται, is to be now cut down; the act of excision is now taking place: the curse of the Lord is even now on the head and the heart of every false teacher, and impenitent hearer.[CLARKE]
e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.

Romans chapter 4
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

 

[1213]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. ... ...He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

I have understood sin really means that person rejects God, or lives without God. When Adam and Eve rejected God, sin entered into human world and people were expelled to this world where we can really see what good and evil means. Because of that, we are born to this world in separation from God, which is sinful state. It is not bad, because we have now opportunity to know evil and good as people in the beginning wanted and God has prepared way back to him, for those who become righteous.

- Merciful, means God forgives. And it is true, but not useful, if person is not, or doesn’t become righteous.

- Righteousness means God does what is good and right. It is not good and right to give eternal life for those who are not righteous, because they would make eternal life eternal suffering for all.

- Loving doesn’t mean person doesn’t care about what is good and right.

People are free and if they love more evil than good, they are not good to eternal life.

This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn't come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God."
John 3:19-21

And one thing I want to say about hell, it is according to the Bible a place where soul and body are destroyed:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

If all don’t live forever, it doesn’t mean this life less valuable, in my opinion it makes this even more valuable and people should use it well for good.

 

[he-man]

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.

Try addressing the TOPIC: "IS GOD RESPONSIBLE FOR SIN,EVIL"
THEN READ 1Ch 28:9 And thou, my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.
Psa 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. 6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
Isa 3:9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves

 

[disciple1]

Try addressing the TOPIC: "IS GOD RESPONSIBLE FOR SIN,EVIL"
THEN READ 1Ch 28:9 And thou, my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.
Psa 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. 6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
Isa 3:9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves

I don't know what your talking about, I addressed it, you just quoted verses that have nothing to do with it.
The law was never meant to obey, yes God knew sin would enter the world before he made it.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 17
What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.

 

[he-man]

I don't know what your talking about, I addressed it, you just quoted verses that have nothing to do with it.

What is so hard to understand about those words????
TOPIC: Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering? It is very plainly stated but if thou forsake him, He will cast thee off for ever.
If the Angel of the Lord pursues then the Angel is acting under the instruction of GOD! let the angel of the LORD chase them. let the angel of the LORD persecute them. So the only question that remains is WHY does the Angel persecute them? The answer is because they have rewarded evil unto themselves. Now tell me what is your problem???

 

[ClementofA]

If you spend your life studying the bible you get faith, faith comes from studying the bible.

Then Satan should have more faith than anyone.

 

[ClementofA]

Try addressing the TOPIC: "IS GOD RESPONSIBLE FOR SIN,EVIL"
THEN READ 1Ch 28:9 And thou, my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

No one is cast off by the Lord forever (Lam.3:31 in the Bible)

Bible Gateway passage: Lamentations 3:31-33 - New International Version

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

 

[disciple1]

Then Satan should have more faith than anyone.

Romans chapter 10 verse 17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
I don't know where you get the idea Satan study's the bible.

 

[ClementofA]

I don't know where you get the idea Satan study's the bible.

Satan even quoted Scripture to Jesus. And offered Him the kingdoms of this world, which includes the false bible touting religions and cults. Who do you think influences them?

 

[disciple1]

Satan even quoted Scripture to Jesus.

Satan even quoted Scripture to Jesus. And offered Him the kingdoms of this world, which includes the false bible touting religions and cults. Who do you think influences them?

That doesn't mean he study's it.
2 Corinthians chapter 11 verse 14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
And so do a lot of people on Christian forums.
And they censor you if it doesn't agree with what, the people who donate money here say.

 

[he-man]

Then Satan should have more faith than anyone.

There is no Satan!

What is so hard to understand about those words????
TOPIC: Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering? It is very plainly stated but if thou forsake him, He will cast thee off for ever.
If the Angel of the Lord pursues then the Angel is acting under the instruction of GOD! let the angel of the LORD chase them. let the angel of the LORD persecute them. So the only question that remains is WHY does the Angel persecute them? The answer is because they have rewarded evil unto themselves. Now tell me what is your problem???

 

[ClementofA]

There is no Satan!

What is so hard to understand about those words????
TOPIC: Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering? It is very plainly stated but if thou forsake him, He will cast thee off for ever.
If the Angel of the Lord pursues then the Angel is acting under the instruction of GOD! let the angel of the LORD chase them. let the angel of the LORD persecute them. So the only question that remains is WHY does the Angel persecute them? The answer is because they have rewarded evil unto themselves. Now tell me what is your problem???

For no one is cast off by the Lord for ever (The Bible)

Universalism and the Bible – Keith DeRose

 

[he-man]

For no one is cast off by the Lord for ever (The Bible)

Think for yourself and read to whom "no one is cast off" is addressed!
Psalms 77:7 Will the Lord cast off for ever? and will he be favourable no more? 12 I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
Lam 3:25 The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him. 31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever:
1Ch 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.
Let me caution you Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Luk 20:15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? 16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others.
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

 

[SkyWriting]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

You can't force people to love God.
That would be mean.

 

[he-man]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

But in truth, the question touches on two mysteries, the relation of the infinite to the finite sρirit, and the permission of the existence of evil under the government of him whom is "the Good." As a part of these it must be viewed —to the latter esρecially it belongs; and this latter, while it is the great mystery of all, is also one in which the facts are proved to us by incontrovertible evidence.—Smith, s. v.
Deliver us from evil.— (1) that the new rendering " the evil one " is an innovation in language, the word wicked being invariably used by the Authorized Version in speaking of Satan; (2) that it narrows the broad, comprehensive sense of the Greek; (3) that it implies incompleteness in the deliverance already accomplished by our Lord; (4) that it has no counterpart or justification in the New Testament ; (5) that it is opposed to the interpretation adopted by all the Churches of Western Christendom ; and (6) that it absolutely ignores the safeguard supplied by the Doxology, laid by all the best expositors of the Greek Church, from Chrysostom onwards. Cook. The Revised Version...p. 61-62
The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognized either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor had it many occasions for them, since it treated moral evils as a properly humans act (comp. Gen. 3), and always as subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortunes according to teleological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hand of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of one of his angels (2 Sam. 24,16; comp. 2 kings xix, 35), and was according looked upon as the proper author of every afflictive disρensation (Amos 3, 64, Apparitions were part of the ρoρular creed : there were beings inimical to mankind inhabiting solitude, but not yet adopted in the association of religious ideas.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Ps 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Job 16:11 God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked.
Job 36:17 But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee. It is a sentiment which is undoubtedly true - that if a man holds the sentiments, and manifests the spirit of the wicked, he must expect to be treated as they are. [BARNES]
Job 34:25 Therefore he knoweth their works, and he overturneth them in the night, so that they are destroyed. 26 He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others;
judgment so that they are destroyed; both in a temporal sense, on every side, with an utter destruction; and in a spiritual sense, with an everlasting one. [GILL]
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Luk 20:15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? 16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others.

 

[ClementofA]

Think for yourself and read to whom "no one is cast off" is addressed!

It concerns "anyone" and everyone:

31For no one is cast off

by the Lord forever.

32Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,

so great is his unfailing love.

33For he does not willingly bring affliction

or grief to anyone.

 

[ClementofA]

You can't force people to love God.
That would be mean.

I can't. But God can:

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

constrain: compel or force (someone) toward a particular course of action.