Is God just choosing one over the another?????????

[BBAS 64]

Well, Bill, I am sure I was dealing with the text. And in 2 Titus 2:25 there is acknowledgement that there is still possibility for some to come to repentance, and they are not just excluded from the elect. But as you don't seem to follow, I will try to break it down for showing it.

2 Peter 3

"This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires."

There were prophecies in the old testament scriptures besides what Jesus said that show what would yet come. But there are scoffers that dismiss prophecies of scripture with their skeptic thinking of disbelief. I would not accuse other believers of this, hopefully you are not doing that either.

"They will say, 'Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.' "

That Jesus Christ who rose from the dead and has life forevermore will return is not desirable to such and with saying all things continue as they were, they have their way. The uniformitarian approach in sciences accommodated them for this, and so it is widely accepted.

"For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

Catastrophism explains adequately what we find. And as the world before that catastrophe was under judgment from God and perished, as prophecies of the Bible and from Jesus show there is coming judgment, and Jesus is returning, which is certainty from prophetic scriptures. God would be right to destroy those who are involved with destructiveness to this world (Revelation 11:18).

"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

God takes the time, which is taken by people to be so slow, with some saying all things continue as they were, because of the longsuffering patience of God, that there will be people who won't just perish who would have, but will come to repentance as God is willing, for that, and such be saved.

Good Day, Fred

Here are the text question I asked, can we just stick to these?


The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Couple of question if I may on your understanding of the verse, kind of hard with out the fuller context.

But none the less... What is his promise?
The "us" and the "any" are both pronouns to what noun do they refer?
what does the "some count slowness" mean or represent?


Here is a fuller context:

2Pe 3:1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation." For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.


I agree there is a chance for repentance... "if" God grants it.

Can we discuss 2 peter and the context who the pronouns represent?
What is the promise?

In Him,

Bill

 

[FredVB]

Well, Bill, I am sure I was dealing with the text. And in 2 Titus 2:25 there is acknowledgement that there is still possibility for some to come to repentance, and they are not just excluded from the elect. But as you don't seem to follow, I will try to break it down for showing it.

2 Peter 3
"This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires."

There were prophecies in the old testament scriptures besides what Jesus said that show what would yet come. But there are scoffers that dismiss prophecies of scripture with their skeptic thinking of disbelief. I would not accuse other believers of this, hopefully you are not doing that either.

"They will say, 'Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.' "

That Jesus Christ who rose from the dead and has life forevermore will return is not desirable to such and with saying all things continue as they were, they have their way. The uniformitarian approach in sciences accommodated them for this, and so it is widely accepted.

"For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

Catastrophism explains adequately what we find. And as the world before that catastrophe was under judgment from God and perished, as prophecies of the Bible and from Jesus show there is coming judgment, and Jesus is returning, which is certainty from prophetic scriptures. God would be right to destroy those who are involved with destructiveness to this world (Revelation 11:18).

"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

God takes the time, which is taken by people to be so slow, with some saying all things continue as they were, because of the longsuffering patience of God, that there will be people who won't just perish who would have, but will come to repentance as God is willing, for that, and such be saved.

Good Day, Fred
Here are the text question I asked, can we just stick to these?

The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Couple of question if I may on your understanding of the verse, kind of hard with out the fuller context.

But none the less... What is his promise?
The "us" and the "any" are both pronouns to what noun do they refer?
what does the "some count slowness" mean or represent?


Here is a fuller context:

2Pe 3:1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation." For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.


I agree there is a chance for repentance... "if" God grants it.

Can we discuss 2 peter and the context who the pronouns represent?
What is the promise?

You could have been more clear about what you were asking (not that it seems you are ready to change your mind for anything) than it seems you think how clear I was, but as I did say what answered it previously,

Those any that Yahweh gives opportunity not with desire that any perish are not defined and limited with the term 'us' previous to it. Any who come to such repentance, with the essential faith, join with us in Christ. The only justification in the context is for all people. So all people do have some opportunity.

I of course was dealing with the fuller context, you can't rightly say I don't, and it doesn't change the understanding to the verse just meaning what you say it does. All history with great problems that dragged on is yet justified to Yahweh with opportunity for all for coming to repentance, that those who do wouldn't perish. That is the sensible meaning of 'any' in that passage. And Yahweh is the one granting that opportunity, indeed. But as there are plenty who resist, not all come to this salvation, those who do come are among 'us' in Christ. This explains that, so there is no need to say I don't deal with answering that question.

But you say there can be no resistance to that because it is irresistible grace? I don't agree, I don't see basis for believing that.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Both Calvinism and Armenianism are false doctrines. We cannot make rules for God to follow. That is backwards.

 

[dms1972]

I also do not agree with the 'love less' theory...about Esau. Some people do not want to admit, God has enemies and hates them. Unless you were foreknown in love to God, you and God are at war, enmity with each other, as you follow the devil and you are not of the Father.

Romans 8
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And because of His Great Love for you, He made you alive who were dead.
Read Ephesians 2, none of that's according to anything good you have done, it is all about God's mercy and goodness to have such a great love only for some and not for others. God does this to prevent any ability of the flesh to boast back to God. The creature, (creation ) was subject to futility unwillingly.

Are we not all enemies of God before he reconciles us?

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!