Originally posted by Reformationist
(1)So it's an issue of the morality of our decisions. I'm curious as to what you believe the Fall did to the nature of man.
I'm sorry. I misunderstood your statement. I thought you were saying original sin was a result of satan's temptation, which is not true. Original sin is a result of Adam and Eve's disobedience. There is a difference. (2) Additionally, it is a moot point to compare the nature of Adam and Eve before the Fall to mankind after the Fall. They are two totally different natures.
I agree that it is not our nature to sin, but if you think it isn't natural for us to do so, I'd like to found out why you think that. I have never met, nor will I ever meet, a person who does not sin. (3)As we grow and mature in our faith our desire to please God increases and our desire to please our flesh lessens but (4)we will always, always sin as long as we are in this broken vessel. If you think that there isn't another power within us that desires to please the flesh you should read what Paul says about that very thing in Romans 7:14-25.
Anyway, you have a lot in your post that I don't have time to comment on but I'll get to it later. Thanks for sharing all that with me.
God bless
(1)The fall of man totally corrupted man's nature - it became what we now know as the sin nature.
(2)Actually, I wasn't comparing. I was saying teh exact same thing you are; that Adam's nature before the fall was very different from his nature after the fall.
(3)I don't know anyone who doesn't sin. But I know someone who doesn't want to - me! You know what? No Christian has a nature that wants to sin, either. The very verses that you told me to read tell me that (and believe me, I have read them many many times). All throughout that Passage, Paul says he does what he does not want to do. He repeats that phrase "what I do not want to do" several times, and that tells us that who he really is- his nature, his spirit-does not want to commit the sin. The passage even goes onto to tell us that Paul isn't even the one committing the sin - it is sin that dwells in him. (verse 20). Now, what does that mean? Quite simply, it means that it is Paul's corrupt flesh that is committing the sin. But that flesh is not who he really is - it is just a shell to contain the spirit - an "eathsuit" if you will. That's a very important distinction. So you see, the struggle is not a battle of 2 natures within us - it is a battle of spirit vs. flesh. I forget the verses, but the Word does tell us (in Ephesians, I think), that the flesh is at war with the spirit?
Now, the question is, "where does the flesh receive its instructions to sin?" Not from the Christian's nature, that is for sure, for Paul tells us that we have stripped the old evil nature off. No, the instructions to the flesh come from the emotions or the mind, which is either acting upon direct temptation from Satan, or as a result fo following old fleshly patterns pre-programmed into us from our Pre-Christian days. Heck, we can even program fleshly patterns into us after we become Christians. For example, as a Christian, if Satan tempts you to do something wrong, he tries to convince you that it's natural for you to sin, because it's just your sin nature and that you are doomed to commit that sin. He lies to you when he tells you you want to do it. But, if you believe him, and commit the sin, and repeatedly give into that temptation, it becomes a habit for you. But you never wanted to do it; Satan just tricked you into thinking you wanted to. You believed it, and now it's a stronghold. It has become a physical habit. But those habits can be broken now, because we no longer hjave that sin nature that controls us. But the flesh is not who you are. It's just your earthsuit, the vessel that contains your spirit. Your nature is the very nature of Christ, and he would never tempt you to sin against him. So, as a Christian, if you sin, you are going against your very own new nature - the new man.
(4)We do not have to sin. Christ's death and resurrection, and the fact that our sin nature was crucified with Christ frees us from the power of sin. If we sin after we become Christians, it is because we choose to, not because we have to. We choose to believe Satan's lies.
Also, Romans 7 has become everyone's "excuse for sinning". They say "well look, even Paul did it". I'm not syaing your doing that, not at all. But many people do. Somehow it makes them feel good if they think they are powerless over temptation. But if they would just go a little further and read Romans 8, they would see that we have victory in Jesus over the power of sin!
8:1
There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit...8:9: But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
8:2
For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8 is the Victory chapter. Why in the world do people dismiss it in favor of Romans 7?
If you want to read a great book about the Christian's identity in Christ, I would recommend reading "Lifetime Guarantee" by Bill Gillham. Excellent reading
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