Is God A Racist?

BudiS10

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Disclaimer: This is not a hate post. This is genuine question. I'm learning all abrahamic religions and therefore I decide to make this post. Sorry for my bad grammar as it's not my native language. let's get started.

In Torah you can clearly see God promoted racism. He seems to be prioritizing jews and Israel over everybody else. Even when jews chose to abandon him, God still love them so much. On the other hand, it seems like he never care about the other people. for example, he does not mind killing Egyptians' firstborn child.

Imagine if you were egyptian at the time, you did not choose to be born as an egyptian (like none of us chose to be born in specific country), and you had absolutely nothing to do with the pharaoh's policies. After all most civilians cannot influence their kings in a monarchy system. All of sudden, your kid has to suffer because of God, is that fair? You punish a whole country because of your love to specific tribe (jews). That sounds like a racist god to me.

I know that a lot of christians do not care what Torah says anymore but the God in Torah and God in gospel is technically still the same and one God, so how can you justify his actions in Torah?

The thing that bothers me the most is that God always talked positively about Israel in Torah and chose not to talk about other people. There were cases where jews chose to abandon God and chose to serve false gods. God still came back to them and showed them the way. Meanwhile, at that time there were already other races on Earth. blacks served other gods. asians served other gods. europeans served other gods. Don't you think it's strange that God of Israel did not choose to come to them and give them the same opportunity like He gave one to the jews? He chose to "abandon" all of them, He seem like He did not care at all about nonjewish people.

in Exodus, God forced egyptians to release jews after 400 years of slavery. If I remember in those same years there were already a lot of slaveries happening all around the world too. But again, God did not come to those other races. God did not force anyone to release the slaves. Why? Why God created us, nonjewish people, if He treat us like a bastard child?
 

BeStill&Know

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Disclaimer: This is not a hate post. This is genuine question. I'm learning all abrahamic religions and therefore I decide to make this post. Sorry for my bad grammar as it's not my native language. let's get started.

In Torah you can clearly see God promoted racism. He seems to be prioritizing jews and Israel over everybody else. Even when jews chose to abandon him, God still love them so much. On the other hand, it seems like he never care about the other people. for example, he does not mind killing Egyptians' firstborn child.

Imagine if you were egyptian at the time, you did not choose to be born as an egyptian (like none of us chose to be born in specific country), and you had absolutely nothing to do with the pharaoh's policies. After all most civilians cannot influence their kings in a monarchy system. All of sudden, your kid has to suffer because of God, is that fair? You punish a whole country because of your love to specific tribe (jews). That sounds like a racist god to me.

I know that a lot of christians do not care what Torah says anymore but the God in Torah and God in gospel is technically still the same and one God, so how can you justify his actions in Torah?

The thing that bothers me the most is that God always talked positively about Israel in Torah and chose not to talk about other people. There were cases where jews chose to abandon God and chose to serve false gods. God still came back to them and showed them the way. Meanwhile, at that time there were already other races on Earth. blacks served other gods. asians served other gods. europeans served other gods. Don't you think it's strange that God of Israel did not choose to come to them and give them the same opportunity like He gave one to the jews? He chose to "abandon" all of them, He seem like He did not care at all about nonjewish people.

in Exodus, God forced egyptians to release jews after 400 years of slavery. If I remember in those same years there were already a lot of slaveries happening all around the world too. But again, God did not come to those other races. God did not force anyone to release the slaves. Why? Why God created us, nonjewish people, if He treat us like a bastard child?
I hope someone else will answer your questions, as it would take me to long to correct your many inaccurate beliefs. Do you mind informing me what is your foundation?
 
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paul1149

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Israel became God's chosen vessel because of the relationship Abraham had with the Lord. It was one of privilege, but also one of heavy responsibility and accountability. We cannot even begin to say that the Jews had it easy. Indeed, they were held to a high standard of law, and incurred brutal punishments for their disobedience, until ultimately they lost the glory of God in the temple and then their nation.

God has a timeline for the summing up of all things, and He works through human agencies until that day. In the fulness of time He sent us His Son, and then under the New Covenant His grace was openly poured out upon all nations and tribes. But Paul makes clear in Romans and Acts that even before that He was not far off and had not really abandoned man. I don't believe we can say He did not come to their aid, though it wasn't at the level of His interaction with the Jews.
 
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Albion

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Disclaimer: This is not a hate post. This is genuine question. I'm learning all abrahamic religions and therefore I decide to make this post. Sorry for my bad grammar as it's not my native language. let's get started.

In Torah you can clearly see God promoted racism.
I'm sorry, but I cannot see "God promoted racism" as correct. I see that he had a chosen race through which he worked his will and made way for his plan by which the whole world would have the chance of being saved in eternity. That much I see.

The main reason, though, why I think your question--although understandable--is not quite what you think it to be, is because it's another example of us mortals imposing upon God our own society's standards of fairness, etc. That's a mistake. It's a common one, but a mistake nevertheless.

It simply does not logically follow that God must live up to the world view held by his own creatures...and only some of them in certain societies or cultures at one point in time, at that!
 
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aiki

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In Torah you can clearly see God promoted racism. He seems to be prioritizing jews and Israel over everybody else. Even when jews chose to abandon him, God still love them so much. On the other hand, it seems like he never care about the other people. for example, he does not mind killing Egyptians' firstborn child.

Why can't God have a Chosen People, set apart for Himself? He made us all and keeps us going moment-by-moment, so it seems to me quite reasonable that He should have the freedom to do as He likes with us. We are in His universe, you know.

God loved the Israelites because He is a loving God, not because the Israelites deserved to be His Chosen People. And God was setting an example, providing an illustration, to the rest of the world through His relationship with the Israelites. Anyone in the Old Testament who wished to live under the theocracy of the Israelite nation was free to do so.

God didn't mind killing Egyptian firstborn? Are you familiar with the events that led up to the death of the firstborn? It seems to me, if you were, you would not be suggesting that God didn't mind killing the Egyptian firstborn. Has it ever occurred to you that He could have killed a great many more Egyptians? And He could have gone straight to killing the first-born. What does it suggest to you about Jehovah-God that He did not wipe them out completely and gave Pharaoh repeated opportunities to release the Israelites before He took such a drastic measure?

Imagine if you were egyptian at the time, you did not choose to be born as an egyptian (like none of us chose to be born in specific country), and you had absolutely nothing to do with the pharaoh's policies. After all most civilians cannot influence their kings in a monarchy system. All of sudden, your kid has to suffer because of God, is that fair? You punish a whole country because of your love to specific tribe (jews). That sounds like a racist god to me.

This doesn't sound at all silly to you? How can God be racist when He is the Creator of all the various tribes and nations on the globe? If He was racist, wouldn't He just create His own favorite people group? Instead, God has made a wide variety of people types. Now, God is sovereign over all that He has made; He has complete freedom to do what He wants with what He has made, which is the thing to which you really seem to be objecting. But why shouldn't God have the right to do so?

I know that a lot of christians do not care what Torah says anymore but the God in Torah and God in gospel is technically still the same and one God, so how can you justify his actions in Torah?

Yes, the God revealed in the Tanakh is the same God revealed to us in the New Testament. He hasn't changed in His essential nature, though He has changed in His manner of relating with us. One does not have to look very hard in the Old Testament to see God being compassionate, forgiving, patient, merciful, and loving. What you do see in the Old Testament more than in the New Testament, however, is the judgement of a holy God upon human wickedness. I don't, though, see why a holy, just God should not judge such wickedness. He would be neither holy nor just if He did not.

The thing that bothers me the most is that God always talked positively about Israel in Torah and chose not to talk about other people. There were cases where jews chose to abandon God and chose to serve false gods. God still came back to them and showed them the way.

The Israelites were not a nation unto themselves but were, as a nation, the representatives of Jehovah to the world. It was through God's Chosen People that He intended to reveal Himself, His holy, just, loving nature, to the rest of humanity. As the living representatives of God, then, the Israelites carried a huge responsibility! And when they failed in this responsibility, God judged and punished them severely!

The Israelites in the Old Testament are a picture of how God deals with each of His children today. He will not tolerate our sin, but He is patient, and merciful and loving, working to draw His wayward children back into fellowship with Himself.

Meanwhile, at that time there were already other races on Earth. blacks served other gods. asians served other gods. europeans served other gods. Don't you think it's strange that God of Israel did not choose to come to them and give them the same opportunity like He gave one to the jews? He chose to "abandon" all of them, He seem like He did not care at all about nonjewish people.

God was showing all the pagan nations surrounding Israel who He was through His Chosen People. And anyone living in a pagan society of the Old Testament could have forsaken their pagan culture and lived under the rule of Jehovah among the Israelites whenever they liked. I don't, then, see that God did abandon all nations but the Jewish one. Not at all.

in Exodus, God forced egyptians to release jews after 400 years of slavery. If I remember in those same years there were already a lot of slaveries happening all around the world too. But again, God did not come to those other races. God did not force anyone to release the slaves. Why? Why God created us, nonjewish people, if He treat us like a bastard child?

But He hasn't treated you like a "bastard child"! He became a man and died on a cross for your sins so that you might be reconciled to Himself and adopted into His family! God has gone to enormous lengths to show you that He loves you!

Selah.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Disclaimer: This is not a hate post. This is genuine question. I'm learning all abrahamic religions and therefore I decide to make this post. Sorry for my bad grammar as it's not my native language. let's get started.

In Torah you can clearly see God promoted racism. He seems to be prioritizing jews and Israel over everybody else. Even when jews chose to abandon him, God still love them so much. On the other hand, it seems like he never care about the other people. for example, he does not mind killing Egyptians' firstborn child.

Imagine if you were egyptian at the time, you did not choose to be born as an egyptian (like none of us chose to be born in specific country), and you had absolutely nothing to do with the pharaoh's policies. After all most civilians cannot influence their kings in a monarchy system. All of sudden, your kid has to suffer because of God, is that fair? You punish a whole country because of your love to specific tribe (jews). That sounds like a racist god to me.

I know that a lot of christians do not care what Torah says anymore but the God in Torah and God in gospel is technically still the same and one God, so how can you justify his actions in Torah?

The thing that bothers me the most is that God always talked positively about Israel in Torah and chose not to talk about other people. There were cases where jews chose to abandon God and chose to serve false gods. God still came back to them and showed them the way. Meanwhile, at that time there were already other races on Earth. blacks served other gods. asians served other gods. europeans served other gods. Don't you think it's strange that God of Israel did not choose to come to them and give them the same opportunity like He gave one to the jews? He chose to "abandon" all of them, He seem like He did not care at all about nonjewish people.

in Exodus, God forced egyptians to release jews after 400 years of slavery. If I remember in those same years there were already a lot of slaveries happening all around the world too. But again, God did not come to those other races. God did not force anyone to release the slaves. Why? Why God created us, nonjewish people, if He treat us like a bastard child?

This is probably a better question to be asking Jews about.

For what it's worth though, in Jewish thought God chose Israel not because they were better or more lofty than any other people or nation, quite the opposite in fact. Rabbinic teaching holds that God offered His Torah to every nation, but all refused it, except Israel. Israel the smallest and least significant of all nations. That chosen-ness, also, does not mean God prefers Jews, or loves Jews more than any other, it means one thing and one thing only: They are the people who said yes to God's offer of Torah at Mt. Sinai. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

Though if you want a better answer than this, again, it would be far better to ask practicing Jews this question. If you do so nicely and politely you'll most likely get your answer.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Man on Fire

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You are seeing God through a Post Modern lense. That doesn't work.

What is a Jew? Given we are talking Talmudic Jews who do not believe in Jesus, then a Jew is a Race, a Culture, and a Religion. 1000 AD there was not racism. You were Christian or other. People saw themselves as Christians, and they belonged to Christendom, which encompassed people of many skin colors. If a European doesn't want Muslims to immigrate to their country, that is not racism unless it is about that person's skin color and biology. It is Nationalism pertaining to culture, and common sense.

Satan is a Racist, and Satan is a liar. Satan looks to keep God's Kingdom Divided. Racism is one way to keep people divided since we are to love our brothers and sisters in Christ. God is a Nationalist. (Jeremiah 30) God Loves his Nations, and the end goal of history is God's Kingdom, and every knee shall bow, every tongue confess.
 
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BudiS10

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Why can't God have a Chosen People, set apart for Himself? He made us all and keeps us going moment-by-moment, so it seems to me quite reasonable that He should have the freedom to do as He likes with us. We are in His universe, you know.

I know that but people claim God is very fair and hold a higher standard of moral than all human beings. by that logic, He should be very fair toward all humans, not choosing specific group of people. some pastors even said our morals came from God. if our moral views and conscience came from God, and it teach us to not be racist, how come when God does it, you justify it by saying "why cant he choose his own chosen people"?


God loved the Israelites because He is a loving God, not because the Israelites deserved to be His Chosen People. And God was setting an example, providing an illustration, to the rest of the world through His relationship with the Israelites. Anyone in the Old Testament who wished to live under the theocracy of the Israelite nation was free to do so.

again, why the "example" has to be specific group of people? Even all the prophets were all jews. why cant he choose a nepalese or an indian or an african? A lot of people from other races had very wise POV about life and were great people too. siddartha gautama, for example, had very peaceful thoughts and great teachings. why God did not come to him and show him the way and make him the "example"? confucius also had very wise thinking. why God did not come to him and make him a prophet? Moses was not a very wise guy before God came to him so why Moses over Siddartha or Confusius?

God didn't mind killing Egyptian firstborn? Are you familiar with the events that led up to the death of the firstborn? It seems to me, if you were, you would not be suggesting that God didn't mind killing the Egyptian firstborn. Has it ever occurred to you that He could have killed a great many more Egyptians? And He could have gone straight to killing the first-born. What does it suggest to you about Jehovah-God that He did not wipe them out completely and gave Pharaoh repeated opportunities to release the Israelites before He took such a drastic measure?

well, like i said, most civilians at that time did not have any influence over the pharaoh's decision. You cannot punish a whole nation just because individual egyptians' wrongdoings (in this case, individual egyptians means the pharaohs).Imagine the situation like this: you are an american citizen. your son is now being held by bunch of gangsters. you told your government to save your kid. your government send a SWAT team and the SWAT team does not care about your son and proceed to kill the gangsters. In the process, your son get killed. are you going to be angry to your government and the SWAT team? most likely yes. however, do you think your son deserved to be killed just because your government does not care about him? No.

It's the same logic with egyptians' firstborn child at that time. im quite sure not all civilians agreed with their pharaohs. in every country we always have people with different ideologies and opposite point of views. they probably did not speak much against the pharaohs at that time because in monarchy people are scared to speak out. do they deserve to get their children killed? Why God did not pick which egyptian deserve to die and leave the innocent egyptians alone? Why he has to wipe out all of their firstborn kids?


This doesn't sound at all silly to you? How can God be racist when He is the Creator of all the various tribes and nations on the globe? If He was racist, wouldn't He just create His own favorite people group? Instead, God has made a wide variety of people types. Now, God is sovereign over all that He has made; He has complete freedom to do what He wants with what He has made, which is the thing to which you really seem to be objecting. But why shouldn't God have the right to do so?

I understand your argument. however, my claim is based on how people see God as the superior being who tell us what's right and what's wrong. if it's true that our moral standards and conscience came from God then why naturally God makes humans feel "disgusted" when another race/ethnicity mocking their race? I'm quite sure if someone different than you literally mocking your country or race and believe you are inferior to them, naturally you would be angry and feel disgusted by his actions. if God gives such "sense" to us to feel proud about our background but at the same time God feels like He need to pick up "group of people" based on ethnicity as "examples" instead of great individuals from different cultural background, don't you think it's a bit contradictive?


The Israelites were not a nation unto themselves but were, as a nation, the representatives of Jehovah to the world. It was through God's Chosen People that He intended to reveal Himself, His holy, just, loving nature, to the rest of humanity. As the living representatives of God, then, the Israelites carried a huge responsibility! And when they failed in this responsibility, God judged and punished them severely!

The Israelites in the Old Testament are a picture of how God deals with each of His children today. He will not tolerate our sin, but He is patient, and merciful and loving, working to draw His wayward children back into fellowship with Himself.

I actually want to discuss more about this whole "judgment" thing. why God has to judge/not tolerate our sin? I mean, let's be honest to each other. most christians are not converts. most christians were born into christian family or at least grown up in christian society. Imagine if you were born as a saudi or north korean and you were dictated by your family and people around you that christianity is bad. most likely it'll be hard for you to believe in christianity as you get older. The "opportunity" for you to be saved (just because you were born in such country) is much less compared to those who were close to christianity from the start. Does that sound fair to you? Why God does not give everybody equal opportunity to learn about Him but then judge all of us when we die?

it was even worse in ancient time. If you were born in somewhere very far away from middle east, maybe you never even heard of this "God of Israel" so why God judge us all when He personally does not give us the equal opportunity to learn and understand about Him?

someone who were born in religious family would have much better chance to believe in the same religion compared to someone who were born in a islamic or hindu country. Even a lot of converts are converting to christianity only because of marriage. i know there are converts who converted because they genuinely believe in christianity but statistics prove that such converts are not that high in number (compared to people who were born and stay muslims/atheists/agnostics/hindu until they die)

From this data alone, I can see that God does not give us equal opportunity to learn about His words. So why is it fair for Him to punish people who do not believe in Jesus?
 
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BudiS10

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You are seeing God through a Post Modern lense. That doesn't work.

What is a Jew? Given we are talking Talmudic Jews who do not believe in Jesus, then a Jew is a Race, a Culture, and a Religion. 1000 AD there was not racism. You were Christian or other. People saw themselves as Christians, and they belonged to Christendom, which encompassed people of many skin colors.

in 1000AD there was already people from different races and nations trading with each other. surely racism and "classification of people based on human races" already existed at that time. the concept of racism itself surely existed at that time. it's just probably most people did not care much, unlike the modern time.

If a European doesn't want Muslims to immigrate to their country, that is not racism unless it is about that person's skin color and biology. It is Nationalism pertaining to culture, and common sense.

i dont know why you bring up immigration topics to the discussion. are you thinking i am a political correctness (PC) police? i dont care about the muslims immigrating to Europe, it's not relevant to the topic at all. I also question Islam a lot but I'm pretty sure the website is "christianforums.com" and not "muslimforums.com"
 
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BudiS10

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This is probably a better question to be asking Jews about.

For what it's worth though, in Jewish thought God chose Israel not because they were better or more lofty than any other people or nation, quite the opposite in fact. Rabbinic teaching holds that God offered His Torah to every nation, but all refused it, except Israel. Israel the smallest and least significant of all nations. That chosen-ness, also, does not mean God prefers Jews, or loves Jews more than any other, it means one thing and one thing only: They are the people who said yes to God's offer of Torah at Mt. Sinai. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

Though if you want a better answer than this, again, it would be far better to ask practicing Jews this question. If you do so nicely and politely you'll most likely get your answer.

-CryptoLutheran
not sure how you can come into such assumption. I am quite sure in Torah you cannot find it (about God came to other countries but they all rejected it). just because one or two rabbi assumed it happened to other countries and these other countries rejected God, does not mean their religion actually claimed it. I have not asked many jews about this, I admit, but I've never heard of any idea that Torah claimed God came to other countries but they refused Him. As long as it's not written in the religion book itself, to me it's just personal assumptions.
 
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Man on Fire

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I know that but people claim God is very fair and hold a higher standard of moral than all human beings. by that logic, He should be very fair toward all humans, not choosing specific group of people. some pastors even said our morals came from God. if our moral views and conscience came from God, and it teach us to not be racist, how come when God does it, you justify it by saying "why cant he choose his own chosen people"?

All people were under God at some point and there was a falling away. Satan is a liar. Your reality is sort of like living in the matrix. You grew up with lies, and were told lies as you went to school. You grew comfortable and complacent in those lies knowing nothing else. It is like the allegory of the cave, and you are in darkness. Jesus Christ is the guiding light out of the darkness. (2 Corinthians 4:6)(1 Thessalonians 5:5)

Abraham was God's Champion. Faith is hard. Abraham found God in a real way, and was willing to listen to him, and he rejected false Gods.

When it comes to Prophets, Balaam Son of Boer was not a Jew. He was a gentile and a Prophet. Where did he come from? Given Eccelsiates 1:9-11, how much knowledge did Solomon have of history to make the statement that time goes in a circle?

well, like i said, most civilians at that time did not have any influence over the pharaoh's decision. You cannot punish a whole nation just because individual egyptians' wrongdoings (in this case, individual egyptians means the pharaohs).Imagine the situation like this: you are an american citizen. your son is now being held by bunch of gangsters. you told your government to save your kid. your government send a SWAT team and the SWAT team does not care about your son and proceed to kill the gangsters. In the process, your son get killed. are you going to be angry to your government and the SWAT team? most likely yes. however, do you think your son deserved to be killed just because your government does not care about him? No.

Look at your $1. See the unfinished pyramid with the all seeing eye? You know what that means to God? We are a Body of Christ. Some are the hands, some the feet, some the lips, the mouth, and so on. We all have our function in the body. Some are entrepreneurial businessmen, and some are in the service sector, and some are Pastors, and Prophets, and so on. We are all important. The Pyramid is a Body of Christ. On top of the Pyramid could be God. In the Book of Judges it was God. God was Israel's King. Sometimes it could be a King or a Prophet. When King David sinned, bad things happened to all of Israel because of David's sin.

You are at basic training. You are opinionated and want to do things your way. I am a drill sergeant. I am going to tell you, that you are not special. You decide you still want to do things your way, and your bad attitude rubs off on other soldiers. It is mass punishment time. You failed to listen and follow instructions, to be wise, and now you pay for it. God's Anger is slow. He gives mankind time to repent, but when mankind keeps in rebellion, he sends Four Horsemen or some other punishment mankind's way. Make no mistake, people choose God, but God is everything and an authority figure. He made rules about how Faith and interacting with man. He keeps his rules.

in 1000AD there was already people from different races and nations trading with each other. surely racism and "classification of people based on human races" already existed at that time. the concept of racism itself surely existed at that time. it's just probably most people did not care much, unlike the modern time.

Is Racism a social construct? That is what they teach at the Universities. If it is, then you could be labeled a racist by this statement.

The most important dividing line to many people in 1000AD was religion. A man with black skin ends up in Wales somewhere, and people may be shocked, but given he makes no sins against them he would probably be accepted. There were black and African Roman Emperors. At one point, you were Christian or other. That is where we are headed.
 
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aiki

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I know that but people claim God is very fair and hold a higher standard of moral than all human beings. by that logic, He should be very fair toward all humans, not choosing specific group of people. some pastors even said our morals came from God. if our moral views and conscience came from God, and it teach us to not be racist, how come when God does it, you justify it by saying "why cant he choose his own chosen people"?

I don't know that God is fair, but He is just. If God was fair would He have sent His only Son to die on a cross for sinners who hated him? Doing so doesn't seem very fair to me. But this is exactly what He did in order to satisfy the demands of His holiness, justice, mercy and love. I think if God had been concerned about human ideas of fairness, He would have just wiped out wicked humanity and started all over again. That would have treated everybody the same - that would have been fair - but it would not have been very loving or merciful as well as just.

I believe our innate moral sense does come from God. But it can be warped, and hardened, and diminished, and drift quite far from its divine origin, which is why, in part, we come to wonder at God's actions. We think our warped and diminished "morality" ought to be God's and suspect Him of evildoing when it isn't. But the problem is on our end, not God's.

I still ask you why God shouldn't do as He likes in His universe? Also, as I said, God can hardly be a racist when He is the Creator of all the various people groups.

again, why the "example" has to be specific group of people? Even all the prophets were all jews. why cant he choose a nepalese or an indian or an african? A lot of people from other races had very wise POV about life and were great people too. siddartha gautama, for example, had very peaceful thoughts and great teachings. why God did not come to him and show him the way and make him the "example"? confucius also had very wise thinking. why God did not come to him and make him a prophet? Moses was not a very wise guy before God came to him so why Moses over Siddartha or Confusius?

Why does God choose a specific group of people to be His own special people? Well, because He wanted to. He could have done things differently, I suppose, but He didn't. And that is His right as Creator. He can do as He likes with what He has made. You have pointed out that God could have done things differently but you haven't shown why He ought to have done so.

well, like i said, most civilians at that time did not have any influence over the pharaoh's decision. You cannot punish a whole nation just because individual egyptians' wrongdoings (in this case, individual egyptians means the pharaohs).Imagine the situation like this: you are an american citizen. your son is now being held by bunch of gangsters. you told your government to save your kid. your government send a SWAT team and the SWAT team does not care about your son and proceed to kill the gangsters. In the process, your son get killed. are you going to be angry to your government and the SWAT team? most likely yes. however, do you think your son deserved to be killed just because your government does not care about him? No.

As far as God is concerned, "there is none righteous, no, not one." From the time of Adam until today humanity has walked in sin and darkness. Were it not for God's mercy, grace and love He would have wiped out all of humanity long ago. Instead, He has worked to provide a way for fallen humanity to be reconciled to Himself through Jesus Christ. There was, then, no truly innocent Egyptian. God would have been well within His rights to have annihilated the whole nation that had turned its back on Him and gone after false gods.

Imagine a father who drives his family home from a party in the family car when he is drunk. His drunkenness causes him to drive the car into an oncoming semi-truck and kill himself and his family. Is it fair that the family has died because of the wicked foolishness of the father? Did they deserve to be killed when it was only the father who had been drinking? Of course not. So, why didn't God just intervene and stop the drunken father from driving the car? Why did He allow the whole family to be killed? Because God honors our choices. Because if God intervened every time a human chose wrong, humans would not have genuine freedom to choose. And God is so determined that we should have genuine freedom (and responsibility) to choose how we will live that He honors the very worst choices that humans make - even choices that cause the death of others.

This is what happened with Pharaoh. He was like the drunken father driving the family car into a semi-truck. And when he did, a whole nation suffered terribly as a consequence. What is amazing, however, is that God gave Pharaoh many chances to make a better decision. It was only when Pharaoh demonstrated that nothing but the very worst consequences would make him change his mind that God resorted to the killing of the firstborn of Egypt. But this is a testament to the wickedness of Pharaoh, and to the terrible power we have to harm others through our bad choices, not to some evil on God's part.

if God gives such "sense" to us to feel proud about our background but at the same time God feels like He need to pick up "group of people" based on ethnicity as "examples" instead of great individuals from different cultural background, don't you think it's a bit contradictive?

But God didn't choose the Israelites because of their ethnicity. His promise to make a Chosen People set apart unto Himself was at first made to just one man - Abraham - out of whom the Israelite nation was born. God did not choose Abraham because Abraham was special; Abraham was special because God chose him. God could have chosen anyone to be the father of His Chosen People. He decided upon Abraham. That's God's divine prerogative.

I actually want to discuss more about this whole "judgment" thing. why God has to judge/not tolerate our sin?

How can God be holy and just and not judge our sin?

I mean, let's be honest to each other. most christians are not converts. most christians were born into christian family or at least grown up in christian society.

But this just isn't true. Every genuine Christian is a convert. There is no such thing as a person who is born Christian. Does being born in a hospital mean you have been born a doctor? Of course not. And being born in America or whatever other nation is considered to be "Christian" does not make you Christian.

Understand that Christianity developed under terrible persecution. In its beginning stages, the culture within which Christianity was born was extremely antagonistic to it. And this continues to be the case even today. There have been more Christians who have died for their faith in the last hundred years than in the entire two millenia over which Christianity has existed. And today Christianity is exploding in Africa, South America, and Asia - regions that have not been traditionally regarded as Christian. So, your idea that Christianity is just a consequence of where one is born doesn't prove to be true.

Why God does not give everybody equal opportunity to learn about Him but then judge all of us when we die?

God has given us all an innate sense of His existence. The Bible tells us, though, that humans "suppress their knowledge of God in unrighteousness." Anyone who truly wants to know God will know Him; God has promised to reveal Himself to all who seek Him with their whole heart. God has also given to us the testimony of Creation. We need only to look at the information, complexity, beauty and balance of the universe to see that God exists. No one, then, will stand before God one day and be able to say, "I had no idea you existed!"

it was even worse in ancient time. If you were born in somewhere very far away from middle east, maybe you never even heard of this "God of Israel" so why God judge us all when He personally does not give us the equal opportunity to learn and understand about Him?

God isn't limited by geography or culture. If there was ever a person who wanted to know Him, truly know Him, God would have seen to it that such a person did know Him no matter where they were. There are increasing stories of Muslims in countries where Christianity is forbidden who meet with Christ in dreams and are saved. The same is true of Asian people and African folk. God will save all who will be saved no matter who or where they are.

Selah.
 
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ViaCrucis

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As long as it's not written in the religion book itself, to me it's just personal assumptions.

That's not how any religion works. Religions, every religion in the world, is a complex set of ideas and practices, some have sacred literature, some do not.

It may not be convenient for whatever argument you want to put forward about a "racist God", but the fact remains that in Judaism the chosen-ness of the nation isn't about race or ethnicity, it's about covenant. They are chosen because God made His covenant with them at Sinai. And at no point does Judaism postulate that non-Jews are sub-human or inferior to Jews in relation to God whatsoever.

I was recommending that you understand these things from a Jewish perspective, your response tells me that you aren't really all that interested in learning, but are primarily interested in your personal agenda here. A legitimately curious and investigative person wouldn't cut themselves off from possible channels of inquiry and knowledge as you have just done. In which case it seems that this thread should be over in the Apologetics sub-forum, not here.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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orangeness365

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When the northern tribes of Israel abandoned God, he eventually divorced the 10 tribes of Israel and scattered them across the earth.

Jeremiah 3:8
8"And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also.

I think even though the Jews were his chosen people, He was a lot stricter with them than with other people. They had so many laws to live by. It doesn't say that the other people in the Old Testament couldn't go heaven either. And God does care about everyone, that's why Jesus Christ came, he died for all of our sins, not just the Jews.

As for the Egyptians, we are all fallen, as has already been said, no one is righteous, no not one. Romans 3:9-10 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

As for all the other people that weren't Jews, he says he overlooks the time of ignorance, but now he calls for everyone to repent.

Acts 17:22-34
Paul Addresses the Areopagus

22So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, ‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,c 25nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28for

“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;d

as even some of your own poets have said,

“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’e

29Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

32Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.” 33So Paul went out from their midst. 34But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.
 
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Job8

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In Torah you can clearly see God promoted racism. He seems to be prioritizing jews and Israel over everybody else.
If you are going to make such statements, let's get down to specifics. What was the "race" of the twelve tribes of Israel? Were they Hebrews who traced their lineage from Shem (the son of Noah) to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Were they therefore Semites?

And were the Arabs not Semites also, since they traced their lineage through Ishmael, who was a son a Abraham? The Egyptians traced their lineage from Ham, the son of Noah. So were all these basically descendants of Noah? So were there actual racial differences, and were the Israelites chosen because of race or because of the Abrahamic Covenant?

The Abrahamic Covenant is the key to understanding the existence of Israel. And because of Israel's sin and disobedience, God was actually ready to wipe them all out, had Moses not interceded for them! So there was nothing of "worthiness" in Israel. It was all of grace.

The Bible repeats several times that "God is no respecter of persons", which means that race means nothing to God. As a matter of fact, God knows of ONLY ONE RACE -- the human race. Please note carefully what Paul says through Divine inspiration (Acts 17:24-27): God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

 
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dcalling

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not sure how you can come into such assumption. I am quite sure in Torah you cannot find it (about God came to other countries but they all rejected it). just because one or two rabbi assumed it happened to other countries and these other countries rejected God, does not mean their religion actually claimed it. I have not asked many jews about this, I admit, but I've never heard of any idea that Torah claimed God came to other countries but they refused Him. As long as it's not written in the religion book itself, to me it's just personal assumptions.

In the beginning everyone know God, as you can see when Abraham went to Egypt the King knows God and didn't harm Abraham because his wife. The Pharaoh didn't even say "Your God", I am sure it is because they all know there is only one God. And look at what happened before Exodus, the Pharaoh have no idea who God is any more.
 
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fatboys

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I can see how you could see God as racist. Here is the problem. To mainstream Christians the only people that God spoke to were Hebrews. I believe God spoke to all people through their prophets we just don't have their records and like Israel they killed their prophets and abandoned a God girl their own Gods.
 
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98cwitr

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Disclaimer: This is not a hate post. This is genuine question. I'm learning all abrahamic religions and therefore I decide to make this post. Sorry for my bad grammar as it's not my native language. let's get started.

In Torah you can clearly see God promoted racism. He seems to be prioritizing jews and Israel over everybody else. Even when jews chose to abandon him, God still love them so much. On the other hand, it seems like he never care about the other people. for example, he does not mind killing Egyptians' firstborn child.

Imagine if you were egyptian at the time, you did not choose to be born as an egyptian (like none of us chose to be born in specific country), and you had absolutely nothing to do with the pharaoh's policies. After all most civilians cannot influence their kings in a monarchy system. All of sudden, your kid has to suffer because of God, is that fair? You punish a whole country because of your love to specific tribe (jews). That sounds like a racist god to me.

I know that a lot of christians do not care what Torah says anymore but the God in Torah and God in gospel is technically still the same and one God, so how can you justify his actions in Torah?

The thing that bothers me the most is that God always talked positively about Israel in Torah and chose not to talk about other people. There were cases where jews chose to abandon God and chose to serve false gods. God still came back to them and showed them the way. Meanwhile, at that time there were already other races on Earth. blacks served other gods. asians served other gods. europeans served other gods. Don't you think it's strange that God of Israel did not choose to come to them and give them the same opportunity like He gave one to the jews? He chose to "abandon" all of them, He seem like He did not care at all about nonjewish people.

in Exodus, God forced egyptians to release jews after 400 years of slavery. If I remember in those same years there were already a lot of slaveries happening all around the world too. But again, God did not come to those other races. God did not force anyone to release the slaves. Why? Why God created us, nonjewish people, if He treat us like a bastard child?

To a Christian, what should be more important? Physical life? Or Spiritual life?

God's actions noted in the Torah are Old Covenant...we are under a new Covenant with Christ. God doesn't change, but the covenant did.
 
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Nikita Michael John

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Disclaimer: This is not a hate post. This is genuine question. I'm learning all abrahamic religions and therefore I decide to make this post. Sorry for my bad grammar as it's not my native language. let's get started.

In Torah you can clearly see God promoted racism. He seems to be prioritizing jews and Israel over everybody else. Even when jews chose to abandon him, God still love them so much. On the other hand, it seems like he never care about the other people. for example, he does not mind killing Egyptians' firstborn child.

Imagine if you were egyptian at the time, you did not choose to be born as an egyptian (like none of us chose to be born in specific country), and you had absolutely nothing to do with the pharaoh's policies. After all most civilians cannot influence their kings in a monarchy system. All of sudden, your kid has to suffer because of God, is that fair? You punish a whole country because of your love to specific tribe (jews). That sounds like a racist god to me.

I know that a lot of christians do not care what Torah says anymore but the God in Torah and God in gospel is technically still the same and one God, so how can you justify his actions in Torah?

The thing that bothers me the most is that God always talked positively about Israel in Torah and chose not to talk about other people. There were cases where jews chose to abandon God and chose to serve false gods. God still came back to them and showed them the way. Meanwhile, at that time there were already other races on Earth. blacks served other gods. asians served other gods. europeans served other gods. Don't you think it's strange that God of Israel did not choose to come to them and give them the same opportunity like He gave one to the jews? He chose to "abandon" all of them, He seem like He did not care at all about nonjewish people.

in Exodus, God forced egyptians to release jews after 400 years of slavery. If I remember in those same years there were already a lot of slaveries happening all around the world too. But again, God did not come to those other races. God did not force anyone to release the slaves. Why? Why God created us, nonjewish people, if He treat us like a bastard child?
54And after these, Adam also, whom thou madest lord of all thy creatures: of him come we all, and the people also whom thou hast chosen. 55All this have I spoken before thee, O Lord, because thou madest the world for our sakes 56As for the other people, which also come of Adam, thou hast said that they are nothing, but be like unto spittle: and hast likened the abundance of them unto a drop that falleth from a vessel. 57And now, O Lord, behold, these heathen, which have ever been reputed as nothing, have begun to be lords over us, and to devour us. 58But we thy people, whom thou hast called thy firstborn, thy only begotten, and thy fervent lover, are given into their hands.
 
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Nikita Michael John

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54And after these, Adam also, whom thou madest lord of all thy creatures: of him come we all, and the people also whom thou hast chosen. 55All this have I spoken before thee, O Lord, because thou madest the world for our sakes 56As for the other people, which also come of Adam, thou hast said that they are nothing, but be like unto spittle: and hast likened the abundance of them unto a drop that falleth from a vessel. 57And now, O Lord, behold, these heathen, which have ever been reputed as nothing, have begun to be lords over us, and to devour us. 58But we thy people, whom thou hast called thy firstborn, thy only begotten, and thy fervent lover, are given into their hands.
DUDE GOD SEE PEOPLE AS NOTHING AND SPIT...SOUNDS DIFFERENT FROM THE LORD U WAS BROUGHT UP ON HUH?
 
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