Is gluttony (being grossly overweight) sinful?

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artybloke

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MOST people have choices.

I know what, why not make people feel even more guilty than they already feel?

Jesus, perhaps.

You are aware that obese people often do have Jesus in their lives? Not everybody has the strength of will that you seem to have. Stop being so superior: you're almost as bad as an ex-smoker (I never was a smoker by the way). I know that MacDonalds are selling salads to appease the health-conscious, but you could bet their salads are full of chemicals too (what's in the dressings?) People who are morbidly obese often have a whole raft of problems, and need to be treated with a deal more compassion that you're revealing here.

Morbid obesity probably is a sign of something missing. Love perhaps?
 
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ebia

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FollowingJesus said:
And leaving the 'poor & overweight' for a moment...there are PLENTY of people who don't qualify as 'poor', and they, too are overweight.

What's 'their' excuse? (rhetorical question)
Pick something, anything, that you are still struggling with.

What's your excuse? (rhetorical question)
 
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Joykins

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FollowingJesus said:
There is a difference between access to good NUTRITION and the ability to control caloric intake.

If you can shop at an inner city McDonald's you can get a salad instead of a double cheeseburger. Again, it's choice. (coming from some one who lived in a very rough part of Harlem...not for long, PRAISE THE LORD, but I've lived in the 'so-called' inner city.)

Most people are not overweight because they are poor, they are overweight becuase they make poor choices in the types and amounts of food they consume.

Now you can get a salad, true. But the salad entrees started only a few years ago.

The causes of obesity are much more complex than mere gluttony. Gluttony can be a cause, but it is not the only potential cause, and many gluttons are not overweight.

Is bulimia gluttony? Is it a sin? Some people have more conscious/willpower control over their eating than others. Some people are greatly helped by 12-step programs or mental health programs. We all need Jesus no matter what other problems we have.

I'm not sure, but you seem to suggest that the poor are destined to be overweight. Again, I don't believe this to be true, and once again, I belive that Jesus can ALWAYS make a way, if we turn to Him.

The poor are not destined to be overweight. That the cheapest, most ready available food to much of the poor has a very high calorie per ounce ratio and a very low nutrient per ounce ratio, and that poor people usually do not have much nutrition education, is a social problem that needs to be addressed. Even foods available from programs like WIC and the school lunch programs are often (and intentionally so) very high in fat, like milk, cheese, and peanut butter and when you're hungry and poor you eat what you can get.
 
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Sam Gamgee

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JunkYardDog said:
And who made up that list? Is it in the Bible somewhere?

The Seven Deadly Sins are: Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Anger, Greed, and Sloth.[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Pride, Gluttony, and Sloth are not even mentioned in the Ten Commandments -- nor in the 613 laws of Moses. Envy and Greed are potentially related to coveting (No. 10), Lust to adultery (No. 7), and Anger to murder (No. 6).
[/font]

I'm missing your overall point... Do you agree or disagree with me that gluttony is a sin?
 
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ChristianCenturion

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Sam Gamgee said:
I'm missing your overall point... Do you agree or disagree with me that gluttony is a sin?

Proverbs 23:2
and put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.

For those that may misunderstand this, it is not advocating suicide (well, not physical anyways).
 
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FollowingJesus

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artybloke said:
I know what, why not make people feel even more guilty than they already feel?
If a person truly has a choice, and I (or someone else) points that out that they are not making the best choice - this is not a bad thing.

Discipline is not always a 'comfortable', 'guilt-free' process.

artybloke said:
You are aware that obese people often do have Jesus in their lives?
Of course, but just like with many other 'issues' we don't bring our struggles to Jesus and seek His help.

artybloke said:
Not everybody has the strength of will that you seem to have.
If they have Jesus, they have the same strength that I have - no less.

artybloke said:
Stop being so superior: you're almost as bad as an ex-smoker...
In what way? By saying that you're not necessarily destined to be a smoker (or obese) all of your life. I never said that weight loss was easy, but I see no harm in saying that with Jesus, you can change your ways and lead a healthy lifestyle.

artybloke said:
People who are morbidly obese often have a whole raft of problems, and need to be treated with a deal more compassion that you're revealing here.
Certainly we should RESPECT all people regardless of their circumstances, but I see no lack of compassion by offering people HOPE. Hope that through Jesus Christ, all things are possible.

It is not 'compassionate', in my opinion to suggest the opposite: You are overweight, and you're destined to stay that way because you have no choices, and even if you turn to Jesus...He can't help you. <--that's not compassion. That's a lie.

artybloke said:
Morbid obesity probably is a sign of something missing. Love perhaps?
Morbid obesity is a sign of many things. People who are obese have the greatest love of all - the love of Jesus Christ. Even if your implication that the 'lack of love' toward overweight people led to the obesity of others, my efforts would be no match for the love of Jesus Christ.

Sir/Madam, I have dedicated my career to helping people with weight problems... It would be wrong for me to have 'overcome' it and then turn to others and say, 'you're on your own.'

When God does a good work in our lives, we are not to keep it to ourselves, we are to show others how good our God is. I've actually had my weight off for about 6 years now, and only one time have I told my weight loss testimony - at the request of a national publication. Most of the times my story is told (in other magazines) I never mention Jesus, but I only concentrate on my diet and nutrition.

Truth be told, I had tried to lose weight God knows how many times. It was only when I turned to HIM, that my life changed.

Again, you can say, I lack compassion, or that my will is stronger than others.

You are very, very wrong.

ETA
My testimony is what it is. I had a severe weight issue because I turned to food when I should have been turning to Jesus for my comfort. I also was diagnosed with a metabolic disorder that I blamed my weight on, too. I felt I was destined to stay that way. But when I had FAITH that Jesus was more powerful than my limited concept of my 'destiny', and I had FAITH that He would help me to overcome the problem in my life, I was ABLE to overcome it (not overnight, and not without work on my part, too, but He gave me the strength and the will to do it.)

Many times in church people give testimonys of how with the help of the Lord, they overcame drugs, alcohol, sex addiction, etc. These same people reach out to others and say, "You have a choice." This is not superiority, lack of compassion, or any of the other judgements you've cast. This is the Truth - you have a CHOICE.

ebia said:
Pick something, anything, that you are still struggling with.

What's your excuse? (rhetorical question)
Good analogy. While I think you were trying to be sarcastic, I happen to agree that weight/gluttony is on par with all of the other struggles we (I) face. When we 'miss the mark'...this is a sin.
 
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Joykins

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How do you deal with the evidence that most weight loss programs don't work and in fact usually result in more weight gain in the long term?

What do you think of the Christian diet plan that turned into a cult-like denomination?
 
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FollowingJesus

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Joykins said:
How do you deal with the evidence that most weight loss programs don't work and in fact usually result in more weight gain in the long term?
There's nothing to 'deal' with - there is no evidence to support the statement - annecdotal, or otherwise. (The 'diets don't work' line is marketing hype, not scientific fact. But feel free to present any studies/evidence from the PubMed library of research studies which state otherwise.)

Most healthy weight loss programs 'do' work. If people stick with them (and make additional lifestyle changes), they will lose weight.

It is a fact, however, that most people regain weight. But this is no fault of the 'diet'. The weight is regained due to people resuming (or developing new) poor lifestyle habits (or perhaps due to some type of infirmity).

Joykins said:
What do you think of the Christian diet plan that turned into a cult-like denomination?
I don't know what 'plan' you're talking about.

I don't view Christianity as a 'cult', nor do I view programs that are Biblically based in sound doctrine as 'cult-like'. Furthermore, I am not speaking of specific diet 'plans'.

Moreover, I don't consider 'looking to Christ for help with our troubles' a 'cult-like' action.

But then again, I don't know much about cults...it's not an area where I concentrate my focus.
 
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SugarMag

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To answer the OP - gluttony/overeating IS a sin.
Eating when you are not truly hungry is indulging in a sinful act.

As far as the OP indicating obese/overweight, too many variables.
I think you can eat a lot of "bad" food and gain weight, but be truly hungry.
(I myself am sugar sensitive and gain weight rapidly if I eat refined carbs, regardless of calorie content).

Meds also can pack on the weight with no change in habits
(me on steroids due to illness: 80 lbs in 5 mns later)

One must be conscious of their relationship with food - as in why they are eating (hunger driven or not), more so than always thinking of weight loss strategies. Reduced eating isnt healthy either, if your body needs more to function (who lives comfortably on 1200 cal/day?)

The OP brought up a good point - gluttony, in the US anyway, seems to be VERY accepted. I ne'er hear a sermon highlighting the sin of it. (might happen...I just never hear it)
 
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bliz

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Yes, gluttony is a sin.

But what is gluttony? Like all sins, gluttony is a sin of the heart, and it has to do with more than food. (I learned a lot of this from a sermon on gluttony - yes, someone did preach on it!)

"The word gluttony stems from the Latin gluttire, meaning to swallow or gulp down, but is also understood to mean overindulgence in any material item - as though, having given up on the promises of the afterlife, one is determined to enjoy oneself here on Earth."

Check out this quiz: http://www.beliefnet.com/section/quiz/index.asp?sectionID=&surveyID=182

"Catholic teachings outline not one but five ways in one can eat and drink like a glutton: not only is it wrong to consume too much, but also to eat or drink too soon, too expensively, too eagerly, or too daintily. If your toast must be a specific shade of brown and buttered just so, you're a glutton: you devote too much mental energy to your food rather than to matters of the spirit."
 
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Joykins

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FollowingJesus said:
Most healthy weight loss programs 'do' work. If people stick with them (and make additional lifestyle changes), they will lose weight.

It is a fact, however, that most people regain weight. But this is no fault of the 'diet'. The weight is regained due to people resuming (or developing new) poor lifestyle habits (or perhaps due to some type of infirmity).

Considering that, and the fact that most people end up in a worse health situation (not to mention heavier--because your body adjusts its metabolism to lower caloric intake) than before they attempted weight loss, is it ethical to encourage anything weight-related except general healthy practices?


Joykins said:
What do you think of the Christian diet plan that turned into a cult-like denomination?

FollowingJesus said:
I don't know what 'plan' you're talking about.

I don't view Christianity as a 'cult', nor do I view programs that are Biblically based in sound doctrine as 'cult-like'. Furthermore, I am not speaking of specific diet 'plans'.

Moreover, I don't consider 'looking to Christ for help with our troubles' a 'cult-like' action.

But then again, I don't know much about cults...it's not an area where I concentrate my focus.

I was thinking specifically of Remnant Fellowship. Since you participate in a weight-loss program, I was wondering if you had heard of them. http://www.spiritwatch.org/remnantwatch.htm I had heard of them since a friend of mine lives in Nashville and apparently it is a big thing there, and I thought it was strange that a sect would form from a Christian diet program.
 
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FollowingJesus

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Joykins said:
Considering that, and the fact that most people end up in a worse health situation [snip] Since you participate in a weight-loss program...
I'm unclear as to where you get your 'facts' from, so it's rather difficult to compose an adequate response. I work in a field related to medical research (thank you Jesus!), so I'm sensitive to 'facts'.

Don't know where you got the idea that I participated in a weight loss program, either, but the link to that other group was an interesting read.

What I'm talking about, however, has nothing to do with programs, pills, potions, etc. Healthy weight management, and relationship with food, isn't about the success or failure of others using these methods - and THAT'S a fact.

SugarMag said:
One must be conscious of their relationship with food - as in why they are eating (hunger driven or not), more so than always thinking of weight loss strategies.
Extremely well put!

When I lost my weight, it wasn't because I was focused on 'weight'. I re-examined my relationship with food, and how I was treating my body - the body that God gave me to take care of while I"m on this earth.

How could I expect good health, when I didn't live in a way that was healthy?

I just knew that if I made the effort to do those things that 'took care of my body', God would see to it that I would have the body He intended me to have. I didn't know how much that body would weigh, or what size it was, or anything...that wasn't my concern.

I repented for the years of MIStreating my body. I asked God for discernment between good and bad food choices. The CHOICE was still MINE, but I asked God to just help me out by putting a spotlight on those situations. I also knew that inactivity wasn't the 'way' either. I had to move more. (In the beginning, this meant only 5 minutes on the treadmill, but it was five minutes more than I did yesterday...)

I acknowelged that my relationship with food was stronger than my relationship with God. I changed that, too.

The overall process certainly wasn't as easy as it was to type this out, but no discipline is...

Hebrews 12:11-12
No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. 12Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees.

SugarMag said:
The OP brought up a good point - gluttony, in the US anyway, seems to be VERY accepted. I ne'er hear a sermon highlighting the sin of it. (might happen...I just never hear it)
With overconsumption and sedentary lifestyles spiraling out of control, you would think the church would address this more often.

But as an earlier poster mentioned, this is a very emotional issue. Many of us are quick to point out obstacles, but slow to make the right choice (when we have a choice.)

That goes for everything, actually... :sigh:
 
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FollowingJesus

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AquaFINEa

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Rusticus said:
I don't think that one can equate being overweight with gluttony.

There are many reasons as to why a person may be very overweight. Overeating is just one of them.

As far as addictions go (be that food, drink, smoke, drugs, sex, religion etc etc) they are largely governed by genetics, and do not imply weakness of character or sinfulness.

Your first point: Absolutely. There are plenty of people who have tried all that they can to lose weight and have even consulted their family doctor to help them come up with a diet & exercise plan that would help them lose weight, but to no avail. Some people are genetically predisposed to certain things, thyroid problems being one of them.

However, I have a problem with your second point (and I take into consideration you may not have intended to imply all addictions):


Not necessarily -Patterns of learned behavior suggests that people learn certain behaviors from others, attitudes about food, for example. Was it your upbringing that taught you the value of eating your dinner before heading for dessert? Or that eating too much candy will give you a stomachache? Chances are, if you are like most people, your parents initially taught you the value of a proper diet. Your parents = your genes (so to speak) but = your living environment (i.e. you learned this -it wasn't imprinted in your dna, so to speak).

If people around you -perhaps, the friends you keep so close by your side- are careless with their bodies and have a blase attitude about food, the chances of you adopting their negative behavior is pretty high. It is learned behavior. I'm a firm believer in "the living environment" working on what we are biologically-given at birth. I don't think genetics can be directly linked to all the problems in the world, without also factoring in the nurturing environment. Both work with one another. That is why, so often, you will hear about younger kids having sex when they are not ready or drinking to the point of drunkeness (even though they really don't "like" to) because they give in to peer pressure -their natural environment; in this case, their peers. Now, please don't misunderstand me, I believe that people can be strong and resist the temptation to "follow the crowd," as it were but even the strongest person can buckle under the pressure if all that they are surrounded with is only one view -in this case, a negative one.

That is why it is so important to educate people on proper diet and health care. For Christians, it just makes logical sense because we are told that our bodies are temples of God. I'm not suggesting that we all eat organic foods or anything, but I do think it is important to watch carefully what we put into our bodies and not go overboard on things that we know are not beneficial to us. That is in the Bible, as well.

(not in your post, but it was mentioned):

Oh -and I don't think that anyone has the right to condemn a person who overeats, any more than a person can condemn another for getting soused-up. The goal is to encourage others to live more fruitfully and to build up others in Christ (Truth) so that they may live lives that are in accordance with the Lord.



Hope this makes sense! :wave:
 
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FollowingJesus

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AquaFINEa said:
Your first point: Absolutely. There are plenty of people who have tried all that they can to lose weight and have even consulted their family doctor to help them come up with a diet & exercise plan that would help them lose weight, but to no avail. Some people are genetically predisposed to certain things, thyroid problems being one of them.
Generally speaking, I agree with your post, and I certainly agree that some people are genetically predisposed to certain health issues.

That said, a PREDISPOSITION doesn't mean that you are necessarily destined to have a specific health malady. This is especially true in the case of weight issues.

I'm comfortable saying that MOST people who are overweight are not that way due to a specific genetic issue that keeps them overweight.

For those people who 'do' have a predispostion (and I am one), lifestyle habits are even more critical for maintaining a healthy body, however, it's not unusual for many to continue poor habits.

I think that when we discuss the issue of overweight/obesity, we are too quick to point out those people with legitimate barriers (things that absolutely prevent weight loss). These people are the exception - not the rule.

As for the majority of people who have 'attempted weight loss plans' - whether on their own or physician designed. One has to look at the compliance issue. Most people just won't comply. In most weight loss studies, large and small, when participants are given 'no wiggle room', in terms of nutrition and/or physical activity - weight loss occured.

AquaFINEa said:
Chances are, if you are like most people, your parents initially taught you the value of a proper diet.
I don't know. When we look at the increasing rates of childhood obesity, it's hard to believe that the parents are teaching the value of a proper diet. Mainly because the parents, too, need to be educated about what a 'proper diet' is.

AquaFINEa said:
That is why it is so important to educate people on proper diet and health care. For Christians, it just makes logical sense because we are told that our bodies are temples of God. I'm not suggesting that we all eat organic foods or anything, but I do think it is important to watch carefully what we put into our bodies and not go overboard on things that we know are not beneficial to us. That is in the Bible, as well.
100% agreement

AquaFINEa said:
Oh -and I don't think that anyone has the right to condemn a person who overeats, any more than a person can condemn another for getting soused-up. The goal is to encourage others to live more fruitfully and to build up others in Christ (Truth) so that they may live lives that are in accordance with the Lord.
Agreed. As I've posted SEVERAL times, the OP was poorly worded. (But I guess my explanation wasn't sufficient as my error is repeatedly brought up. (kind of like someone 'sinning'(ie missing the mark), repenting, and then having people keep bringing up the original sin :idea: ;)))

That said, I never meant to suggest that it was right to condem anyone of anything...

The point I was trying to make is that other issues of sin are REGULARLY addressed (and pointed out as sinful) in the church (ie alcoholism, homosexuality, etc), but gluttony (as it relates to food) is rarely addressed.
 
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Crazy Liz

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Joykins said:
Is bulimia gluttony? Is it a sin?
I'm glad to see someone trying to define gluttony in terms that have nothing to do with obesity. I was convicted a few years ago that consuming "foods" totally empty of nutrition for gratification (such as artificial sweeteners and artificial fats) was a form of gluttony. It was making my mouth artificially taste and feel sensations associated with food. Now, if I don't want the calories, I will drink something that is not sweet, rather than an artificially sweetened beverage.

I think it is very possible to be a glutton without being overweight. Bulimia and eating these artificial foods may both be manifestations of gluttony in a person who is not overweight.

I'm not saying everyone should do the same, or that everyone who consumes these items is a glutton. It was just something impressed on me, and maybe it has been impressed on someone else, as well, although I've never heard anyone else say so.
 
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indra_fanatic

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Crazy Liz said:
I'm glad to see someone trying to define gluttony in terms that have nothing to do with obesity. I was convicted a few years ago that consuming "foods" totally empty of nutrition for gratification (such as artificial sweeteners and artificial fats) was a form of gluttony. It was making my mouth artificially taste and feel sensations associated with food. Now, if I don't want the calories, I will drink something that is not sweet, rather than an artificially sweetened beverage.

I think it is very possible to be a glutton without being overweight. Bulimia and eating these artificial foods may both be manifestations of gluttony in a person who is not overweight.

I'm not saying everyone should do the same, or that everyone who consumes these items is a glutton. It was just something impressed on me, and maybe it has been impressed on someone else, as well, although I've never heard anyone else say so.

Not sure if I agree with that idea, but most of these "fake foods" are absolutely disgusting to begin with. If I were to commit the sin of gluttony, it sure as heck wouldn't be with some chemical that tastes like a combination of antifreeze and hair dye.:eek: It should be a sin to put that kind of poison in you!
 
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indra_fanatic

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Joykins said:
I was thinking specifically of Remnant Fellowship. Since you participate in a weight-loss program, I was wondering if you had heard of them. http://www.spiritwatch.org/remnantwatch.htm I had heard of them since a friend of mine lives in Nashville and apparently it is a big thing there, and I thought it was strange that a sect would form from a Christian diet program.

I think that most attempts to attach spiritual significance to physical appearance, health, or fitness (as opposed to the sin of gluttony) can get dangerously close to cultism if unchecked. Ms. Shamblin has a lot of explaining to do, but many of those who would recoil from her extremes still believe, to some degree or another, that fitness=godliness.

Several weeks ago, the church I currently attend (AOG) ran a series based on fitness ("God wants you to lose weight", "your body is a temple", etc.). CL knows all about it. Even though I know there was no malevolent intention in the pastors in this and I simply chalk it up to one bad exigetical incident, it bothered me because it undoubtedly made many overweight and frail congregants feel like dirt.

The notion that God wants you to embody a certain appearance or certain standard of physical condition is (besides getting perilously near to Hitlerian views on Aryan fitness vs. undesirables) tantamount to the quiver-full extremists' view that God is angry at people who don't have/don't have enough children. I thought Christ's sacrifice took care of this blatant legalism once and for all.
 
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