Is freedom in Christ an ability to keep on sinning?

Jonathan Leo

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As the title says,
A lot of people belief they are saved by faith alone.
They say things like, “we cannot out do Gods grace”
Or “we will always sin, we are not perfect”

Scripture clearly states its principles

1. No one is righteous not 1, ye are saved by grace not of yourselves lest ye boast
2. Jesus tells us things we should and should not do.
3. The apostles state if we continue in sin there no longer is a sacrifice for sin
4. If we live for the flesh, we will not inherit the kingdom

My belief is that
1. I’m a sinner who deserves hell
2. Jesus died for my sin and set me free from the bondage of sin. I must have faith in Him
3. I’m no longer a slave to sin but a slave to righteousness
4. With my free will and knowledge of the flesh and spirit, I must crucify the flesh
5. I must live for the Spirit and produce fruit because it shows I have true faith in Jesus
6. If I continue in my sin, then I’m not saved for a believer cannot keep sinning willingly

What’s people’s views on this??
This should clear a few things up
 

Halbhh

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As the title says,
A lot of people belief they are saved by faith alone.
They say things like, “we cannot out do Gods grace”
Or “we will always sin, we are not perfect”

Scripture clearly states its principles

1. No one is righteous not 1, ye are saved by grace not of yourselves lest ye boast
2. Jesus tells us things we should and should not do.
3. The apostles state if we continue in sin there no longer is a sacrifice for sin
4. If we live for the flesh, we will not inherit the kingdom

My belief is that
1. I’m a sinner who deserves hell
2. Jesus died for my sin and set me free from the bondage of sin. I must have faith in Him
3. I’m no longer a slave to sin but a slave to righteousness
4. With my free will and knowledge of the flesh and spirit, I must crucify the flesh
5. I must live for the Spirit and produce fruit because it shows I have true faith in Jesus
6. If I continue in my sin, then I’m not saved for a believer cannot keep sinning willingly

What’s people’s views on this??
This should clear a few things up

Right. And also know that as in 1 John chapter 1, when we stumble, even at length and very long and much so like the prodigal son, that we can confess/repent, and then we are forgiven! That humble repentance is a thing we all need to do at times, and no one should put it off, because none of us know which day will be our last here.
 
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dreadnought

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As the title says,
A lot of people belief they are saved by faith alone.
They say things like, “we cannot out do Gods grace”
Or “we will always sin, we are not perfect”

Scripture clearly states its principles

1. No one is righteous not 1, ye are saved by grace not of yourselves lest ye boast
2. Jesus tells us things we should and should not do.
3. The apostles state if we continue in sin there no longer is a sacrifice for sin
4. If we live for the flesh, we will not inherit the kingdom

My belief is that
1. I’m a sinner who deserves hell
2. Jesus died for my sin and set me free from the bondage of sin. I must have faith in Him
3. I’m no longer a slave to sin but a slave to righteousness
4. With my free will and knowledge of the flesh and spirit, I must crucify the flesh
5. I must live for the Spirit and produce fruit because it shows I have true faith in Jesus
6. If I continue in my sin, then I’m not saved for a believer cannot keep sinning willingly

What’s people’s views on this??
This should clear a few things up
I believe we are in agreement, though I would say it differently. I do believe that being saved and going to heaven are two different things. I think we need to repent before we go to heaven.
 
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GandalfTheWise

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As the title says,

What’s people’s views on this??
This should clear a few things up

I believe that the gospel consists of two main parts. The first is the atoning work of Christ where our sins are forgiven and a right relationship with God is established. All Christians pretty much have that one down pat. The second is that we are made into new creations and that God is working to transform us. It is basically that work of God in us that causes us to be changed into a person whose motives, thoughts, and deeds reflect who God intends for us to be. Many Christians focus on getting rid of sin through will-power, resolutions, and self-effort rather than through spiritual maturity and growth and transformation. In a sense, this is trying to keep rules and avoid sin through our own strength.

To me, the important thing is focusing on spiritual growth, maturity, and being transformed into the person God created us to become. As this happens, spiritual fruit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, and other fruit of the Spirit) becomes more and more a description of who we are becoming in Christ. A part of this is that this transformation frees us more and more from bondage to sin. In my opinion, it is not so much about worrying about keeping particular rules so as not to commit sins, but rather becoming a person who by nature just does what is right without having to think about it.

To me, freedom in Christ consists of being freed from the addictions, compulsive behaviors, sin, and other things that controlled us. It is not so much being freed to worry about which rules to keep and then using our will to choose which ones to keep or not to keep, but rather being freed so that we naturally are able and want to do what is right. It is being transformed into the person God intended us to be.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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Right. And also know that as in 1 John chapter 1, when we stumble, even at length and very long and much so like the prodigal son, that we can confess/repent, and then we are forgiven! That humble repentance is a thing we all need to do at times, and no one should put it off, because none of us know which day will be our last here.
Yep, I believe our apology must be sincere, not something we can use to keep on sinning.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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I believe we are in agreement, though I would say it differently. I do believe that being saved and going to heaven are two different things. I think we need to repent before we go to heaven.
Explain??
Being saved means you go to heaven. Don’t it??
 
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Jonathan Leo

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I believe that the gospel consists of two main parts. The first is the atoning work of Christ where our sins are forgiven and a right relationship with God is established. All Christians pretty much have that one down pat. The second is that we are made into new creations and that God is working to transform us. It is basically that work of God in us that causes us to be changed into a person whose motives, thoughts, and deeds reflect who God intends for us to be. Many Christians focus on getting rid of sin through will-power, resolutions, and self-effort rather than through spiritual maturity and growth and transformation. In a sense, this is trying to keep rules and avoid sin through our own strength.

To me, the important thing is focusing on spiritual growth, maturity, and being transformed into the person God created us to become. As this happens, spiritual fruit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, and other fruit of the Spirit) becomes more and more a description of who we are becoming in Christ. A part of this is that this transformation frees us more and more from bondage to sin. In my opinion, it is not so much about worrying about keeping particular rules so as not to commit sins, but rather becoming a person who by nature just does what is right without having to think about it.

To me, freedom in Christ consists of being freed from the addictions, compulsive behaviors, sin, and other things that controlled us. It is not so much being freed to worry about which rules to keep and then using our will to choose which ones to keep or not to keep, but rather being freed so that we naturally are able and want to do what is right. It is being transformed into the person God intended us to be.
Yes, I believe Christ died for us to set us free and so with our free will we carry out what God commands. It is honoring God in that way is how we mature, sure sin still exists because our carnal nature wages war against The Holy Spirit that dwells within those found in Christ, but it does not become the dominant force because with the knowledge of the truth and free will, we chose to do it Gods way out of love for Him
 
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dreadnought

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Explain??
Being saved means you go to heaven. Don’t it??
No, I don't think it does. I think being saved means being rescued from the messes we make of our lives. I think heaven is automatic for people who repent of their sin (Matt 4:17).
 
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Jonathan Leo

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No, I don't think it does. I think being saved means being rescued from the messes we make of our lives. I think heaven is automatic for people who repent of their sin (Matt 4:17).
Mmmmm, never taught of it that way
In a sense I think you taught me something,
We can read a book and change our lives for the better without Jesus so on that note, repentance of sin is what gives us our inheritance of the kingdom
Am I right with you so far lol??
 
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dreadnought

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Mmmmm, never taught of it that way
In a sense I think you taught me something,
We can read a book and change our lives for the better without Jesus so on that note, repentance of sin is what gives us our inheritance of the kingdom
Am I right with you so far lol??
Well, you made me a little nervous with that "without Jesus" part. We can't do any of this without Jesus. However, I believe the gate is left open for those who repent of their sin.
 
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Jonathan Leo

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Well, you made me a little nervous with that "without Jesus" part. We can't do any of this without Jesus. However, I believe the gate is left open for those who repent of their sin.
Sorry bro, what I meant was that anybody can read a life coaching book that’s not godly, rather worldly and in renewing their minds to what the book teaches, could be saved ( as you put it ) from a messy life. Whereas without Jesus and repentance to Him, we won’t see heaven.
 
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dreadnought

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Sorry bro, what I meant was that anybody can read a life coaching book that’s not godly, rather worldly and in renewing their minds to what the book teaches, could be saved ( as you put it ) from a messy life. Whereas without Jesus and repentance to Him, we won’t see heaven.
What messes up our lives is sin. A worldly life coaching book probably won't teach you that.
 
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Right. And also know that as in 1 John chapter 1, when we stumble, even at length and very long and much so like the prodigal son, that we can confess/repent, and then we are forgiven! That humble repentance is a thing we all need to do at times, and no one should put it off, because none of us know which day will be our last here.



I wrote this some time ago to another guy who substituted a timely repentance for Grace.Repentance is an important part of faith.....it is built- in to the Gospel that SAVES found in 1Cor15:1-4. Adding to that Gospel is VERY dangerous.Simply Believe.



I believe you have “ a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge” There are seven different types of repentance in the Bible.Turning to God ( true salvation repentance ) with “ faith towards Christ” is the repentance that God demands.Repenting from sins for salvation will not be found in the KJV.If, by repentance we mean we are sorry for our sins that is good— that will occur naturally once we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Being sorry for sins does not save as Judas has discovered. If by repentance we mean we are going to stop sinning— that is impossible. We all sin every hour of every day. We all have secret thoughts that would shame Hell, and our sins of omission are beyond counting, unless you are inviting strangers into your home every day for food and shelter..You claim you believe in grace, but you either do not understand it or do not trust it.What you really trust is luck. You have to rely on the hope that if you sin, you can hurry up and confess and repent before you die suddenly of a heart attack or something, for you have stated if we have sins on our record that have not been covered by repentance you are going to Hell.I trust in grace to cover my sins from the moment I believed until the moment I die.Saved by His grace, not by a repentance that tries to be a substitute for grace.As for my opinion on your salvation, it is worthless. Only God knows your heart.All I know is that Paul said we will be judged by what we do with the Gospel given to him by Christ.Adding to that Gospel or preaching a Gospel that adds to it will bring damnation.Repentance is never mentioned in Pauls Gospel.It seems to me to be a very dangerous addition.You decide.
 
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6. If I continue in my sin, then I’m not saved for a believer cannot keep sinning willingly

What’s people’s views on this??
This should clear a few things up
.
ROMANS.7: = 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law.

Sins/evil-deeds are defined by the Law or commandments/Word of God.(see MATTHEW.7:12)
....... Keep in mind that God only requires new Gentile Christians to keep non-burdensome laws of Moses, esp morality laws, eg the Ten Commandments(EXODUS.20). If they don't, God will curse/punish them.(DEUT.28:15, 1COR.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-19, HEB.10:26-31) They are exempt from burdensome laws, eg circumcision(cf; GENESIS.34:25), kosher foods, etc.
....... Why.? Because most new Gentile Christians had led lawless lives from childhood before coming to faith and to force drastic changes to their lifestyle can be too burdensome, esp the keeping of non-morality laws. Also, eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ trumps a good and long life on earth through the works of the Law.

In comparison, new Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews are required by God to continue to keep Moses Law, as many laws as possible, because it is not a burden to them.
 
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Halbhh

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I wrote this some time ago to another guy who substituted a timely repentance for Grace.Repentance is an important part of faith.....it is built- in to the Gospel that SAVES found in 1Cor15:1-4. Adding to that Gospel is VERY dangerous.Simply Believe.



I believe you have “ a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge” There are seven different types of repentance in the Bible.Turning to God ( true salvation repentance ) with “ faith towards Christ” is the repentance that God demands.Repenting from sins for salvation will not be found in the KJV.If, by repentance we mean we are sorry for our sins that is good— that will occur naturally once we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Being sorry for sins does not save as Judas has discovered. If by repentance we mean we are going to stop sinning— that is impossible. We all sin every hour of every day. We all have secret thoughts that would shame Hell, and our sins of omission are beyond counting, unless you are inviting strangers into your home every day for food and shelter..You claim you believe in grace, but you either do not understand it or do not trust it.What you really trust is luck. You have to rely on the hope that if you sin, you can hurry up and confess and repent before you die suddenly of a heart attack or something, for you have stated if we have sins on our record that have not been covered by repentance you are going to Hell.I trust in grace to cover my sins from the moment I believed until the moment I die.Saved by His grace, not by a repentance that tries to be a substitute for grace.As for my opinion on your salvation, it is worthless. Only God knows your heart.All I know is that Paul said we will be judged by what we do with the Gospel given to him by Christ.Adding to that Gospel or preaching a Gospel that adds to it will bring damnation.Repentance is never mentioned in Pauls Gospel.It seems to me to be a very dangerous addition.You decide.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Who wrote this? Not some later person, but rather Paul.

It's not a substitution of repentance for Grace unless a person actually does think they are accomplishing their own salvation, replacing Grace with their own work. (*--see note at bottom) It's by Grace that we are forgiven for only confessing/repenting! Consider that! This is such an amazing Love!

Yes, as you said, repenting is part of coming to Christ -- without repenting, one hasn't come to Christ yet. The Gospels and Book of Acts.

But also after straying/stumbling in a significant way, one repents to return to Him, to come back. The Gospels and the Epistles. No, we cannot remember every small sin, and we do not need to. But, the more significant departures, bigger sins, the ones that make us feel guilty -- that guilt is the Spirit tugging on us to turn and repent -- because we walked away from Him. Left Him. Departed.

Basically when you feel (or know) you did something wrong it's because it's more significant -- then confess to God, and you will be restored. It's just like the Prodigal Son, but hopefully we don't wait so long (but if we do, it's not too late if you are still breathing.)

In a nutshell:

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

It's the amazing Grace, that He forgives those who humbly confess/repent.

See, significant sins are truly us separating, leaving. Putting distance between us and God. That's why Peter felt regret. Regret that was not ignored, but instead Peter repented. (Peter's Sin, and Peter's Repentance)

This is nothing less than whether we are choosing to be with Christ, or stay/look away from Him at the thing that we left Him for instead. We can look back to Him in an instant. On the door of death, His will look to Him. I'm not trying to elaborate a theology. I think something like OSAS is too....simple. I can believe God will do what it takes for you and me to be able to turn from our sins. Someone may have to hit bottom really hard!

Yet, at the same time, we can resist, and suffer, and possibly even get prideful and continue to resist and resist until we are truly departed, so I suppose I think OSAS is not really set in stone for every individual necessarily, but rather it's the...likelihood for anyone that came to Him, in that once truly a person has come to Christ, the pull of the spirit on them to repent when they have left Him (walked sufficiently far off in sin, truly strayed) is strong and persistent, and effective for most any of us that have His words in our hearts.
Now, we know He did say explicitly we must listen to His words and put them into practice, or else: Matthew 7:24-27, which I take to mean even faith can fail (we can lose our faith) if we continue to resist and focus on some idol instead of listening to Christ and doing His words.

We can remember the wordings Paul used in Philippians, for instance, about how he himself was not already thinking he'd past-tense obtained the goal. Rather, it was a race to be continued. We are to continue walking. Yes, I'm mixing several parts of what Paul said in several chapters/epistles now. But I want us to remember especially Philippians chapter 3, especially noticing the dramatic verses 12-14. We always have to read through entire full epistles of Paul to get all he says.
---------------------------

*--I'm assuming a lot of background (we all do in our posts), and I realized above I was assuming everyone already believes in Ephesians 2:8-10 and know it, and not just sort of or maybe, but really. Grace only, not works. Works follow because we believe, from being on the vine, keeping His words in our hearts. There is so much we all assume when we write, but of course we don't have all identical 128/128 assumptions, but only a large overlap, and we can't even guess what isn't the overlap. :)
 
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