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Featured Is Final Salvation Free or Contingent upon Obeying Commandments?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by bcbsr, Jun 10, 2019.

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  1. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure you would call Martin Luther a brother like you did Hammster while at the same time say they both teach a false gospel. That’s the double talk and hypocrisy that comes from those who seek to be justified by Gods law. Reinvent the meaning of Gods grace to mean the opposite while pretending to stand on grace and the gospel you actually are anti grace and anti gospel
     
  2. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    I missed this. Again, I'm not making assumptions, because it's the interpretation of the Holy Orthodox Church, which hasn't changed and won't change, so that it is neither my nor anyone else' individual interpretation. Paul did not ever say that salvation is effortless, and neither has the Church ever said any such thing. All agree that it is not the result of our works, but by grace, through faith that we are saved. No where, however, does any saint of the Church contend that this doesn't require any effort on our part.
     
  3. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    I do...

    One is working to bring glory to God.

    The other is working to stay saved.

    One is working for for God

    The other is working for self.

    Doing something to remain saved.... is selfish.

    Being saved and doing good because your heart desires it, is selfless.

    I am not personally wealthy enough to sustain myself without gainful employment.
    Therefore, I work to live.

    If I was given an endless supply of money... Any service of mine would be out of kindness, not for a wage.

    God has given us an endless supply of life. Our work is, then, done out of self servant hood... not in order to gain anything for ourselves.. we already have everything we need.

    How much we do is not an indicator of the fact that we all ( believers ) have eternal life...
     
  4. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    The verb is the Greek Perfect tense of which my lexicon says:

    describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated. Jesus’ last cry from the cross, TETELESTAI ("It is finished!") is a good example of the perfect tense used in this sense, namely "It [the atonement] has been accomplished, completely, once and for all time."
     
  5. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    The thing about Catholic and Orthodox interpretations is that they assume they are infallible and as such they don't subject them to scrutiny as any Berean would. It's kind of a "raise a flag and see if someone salutes it" type of hermeneutics. Our Church says so and so it must be true. Might be sufficient for you people, but not for us who interpret scripture in light of scripture.
     
  6. Shimokita

    Shimokita Well-Known Member

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    It need not be repeated friend. Don't jump back into the ocean.
     
  7. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Furthermore "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 so "if they had been of us, they would have remained with us", otherwise they had been of us in name only.
     
  8. Shimokita

    Shimokita Well-Known Member

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    You believe that you are born of God. Why do you go on sinning, friend? Do you not sin?

    Do you have free will? Are you incapable of rejecting God, or does he control you like a puppet? This is the issue. What is your stance?
     
  9. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,617
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    What's the difference?
    Works demonstrate we're saved.
    No works
    No salvation
     
  10. Shimokita

    Shimokita Well-Known Member

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    Not much. If one of their brothers goes out, sleeps with a hooker, and starts murdering people they will simply say "Well he was never really saved in the first place" while comically holding to the idea that they are incapable of the same evil.
     
  11. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Smooth operators.

    But, problem...
    IF we can't tell who is saved.....or not....
    how can we be sure we're saved???

    They were never saved to begin with is a most dangerous belief.
     
  12. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    My stance is "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." He who has ears, let him hear.
     
  13. Shimokita

    Shimokita Well-Known Member

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    That is my stance too friend, Amen.

    It doesn't mean that God turns you into a puppet without free will.
     
  14. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    You do understand that believe in the original means trust and commit to obey, right ?


    Here, maybe this will help.



    “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
    John 3:36



    JLB
     
  15. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    Obey the Gospel to be saved.

    Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.


    Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.


    Repent is the command of the Gospel we are to obey.


    Repent means to turn to God, in submission to Him as Lord.





    JLB
     
  16. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    If you obey His voice and commandments and laws, you are blessed with believing/obeying Abraham.


    because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:5



    JLB
     
  17. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

    +697
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    It's not about how many, there is no such thing as a certain number, it's about a relationship with Christ, a relationship built on trust, on love, on living with and for Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  18. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    Wow.

    That’s not true at all.


    If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6



    Here’s how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


    Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



    JLB
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Private Status. Do Not Read. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Yes, Abraham obeyed. But that’s not why he was made righteous.
     
  20. Hammster

    Hammster Private Status. Do Not Read. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Cutting and pasting verses out of context does not an argument make.
     
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