Is Faith like a growing flame?

[SW501]

I posted this a while ago Faith & Believe Help

And I have been still searching since then trying to make my mind believe.

I think it may be starting to happen but I don't know why and it's making my analytical mind go nuts lol. Basically I have been trying to read the bible here and their and asking God to help me believe. I have also been asking for a sign and then randomly opening the Bible.

I think in my heart it's starting to know even though I don't appear to have had any real sign that I am aware of. Is this the start of blind belief? (something i have always shown utter disdain for, if I am honest) I haver no other explanation.

One of the verses I opened to was this in Corintians;

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,1 but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;2 does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

we know in part and we prophesy in part, when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

I don't really know what to make of it but it felt like it spoke to me but again i have no idea why.

Am I going mad? I don't really want to be one of those who just believes but it's like my heart is overruling my head or is it a case if you want something enough and tell yourself something enough you start to believe your own story? or could it be he's speaking to me without actually speaking and it's changing me?

 

[DeerGlow]

I posted this a while ago Faith & Believe Help

And I have been still searching since then trying to make my mind believe.

I think it may be starting to happen but I don't know why and it's making my analytical mind go nuts lol. Basically I have been trying to read the bible here and their and asking God to help me believe. I have also been asking for a sign and then randomly opening the Bible.

I think in my heart it's starting to know even though I don't appear to have had any real sign that I am aware of. Is this the start of blind belief? (something i have always shown utter disdain for, if I am honest) I haver no other explanation.

One of the verses I opened to was this in Corintians;

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,1 but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;2 does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

we know in part and we prophesy in part, when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

I don't really know what to make of it but it felt like it spoke to me but again i have no idea why.

Am I going mad? I don't really want to be one of those who just believes but it's like my heart is overruling my head or is it a case if you want something enough and tell yourself something enough you start to believe your own story? or could it be he's speaking to me without actually speaking and it's changing me?

I just read that recently in a devotional! Woo! Speaking of which, have you looked into apologetics? I feel like that could help an analytical person.

 

[SW501]

Devotional? I am fairly new to this website i saw the apologetics forum but wasnt really sure what it is ill will have a gandar.

 

[DeerGlow]

Devotional? I am fairly new to this website i saw the apologetics forum but wasnt really sure what it is ill will have a gandar.

On YouVersion, they have bible study plans.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Is this the start of blind belief? (something i have always shown utter disdain for, if I am honest) I haver no other explanation.

Good question, and your guess is as good as mine.

Seek and ye shall find? Knock and will be opened unto you?

Seems you did those things, and are seeing a result ...run with it.

 

[xianghua]

I posted this a while ago Faith & Believe Help

And I have been still searching since then trying to make my mind believe.

I think it may be starting to happen but I don't know why and it's making my analytical mind go nuts lol. Basically I have been trying to read the bible here and their and asking God to help me believe. I have also been asking for a sign and then randomly opening the Bible.

I think in my heart it's starting to know even though I don't appear to have had any real sign that I am aware of. Is this the start of blind belief? (something i have always shown utter disdain for, if I am honest) I haver no other explanation.

One of the verses I opened to was this in Corintians;

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,1 but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;2 does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

we know in part and we prophesy in part, when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

I don't really know what to make of it but it felt like it spoke to me but again i have no idea why.

Am I going mad? I don't really want to be one of those who just believes but it's like my heart is overruling my head or is it a case if you want something enough and tell yourself something enough you start to believe your own story? or could it be he's speaking to me without actually speaking and it's changing me?

the first step is to know that god exist. for this we need to check the scientific evidences. for instance you can check one of my posts about it here:

the self replicating watch argument

what do you think about this argument so far?

 

[SW501]

the first step is to know that god exist. for this we need to check the scientific evidences. for instance you can check one of my posts about it here:

the self replicating watch argument

what do you think about this argument so far?

I will check it out but in my experience so far no one has been able to scientifically proof it. This has been my burden as I have wanted to believe for some time but my scientific mind would not let me etc. Albeit now I am starting to without any sign really.

 

[xianghua]

I will check it out but in my experience so far no one has been able to scientifically proof it. This has been my burden as I have wanted to believe for some time but my scientific mind would not let me etc. Albeit now I am starting to without any sign really.

the argument is basically saying that we know that some complex systems like a watch or a spinning motor are the result of design. we know that such systems exist in nature too (like the flagellum or the atp synthase that are a spinning motors) and therefore nature need a designer. the main objection to this argument is that nature systems have a self replicating system and made from organic components. but even in this case it doesnt matter because we are know that even a self replicating watch or a motor are the result of design. do you agree?

 

[SW501]

the argument is basically saying that we know that some complex systems like a watch or a spinning motor are the result of design. we know that such systems exist in nature too (like the flagellum or the atp synthase that are a spinning motors) and therefore nature need a designer. the main objection to this argument is that nature systems have a self replicating system and made from organic components. but even in this case it doesnt matter because we are know that even a self replicating watch or a motor are the result of design. do you agree?

I do class myself as a believer now although I cant say I have had any sign myself.

I actually read a paper by K.Himma (I might be recalling his name wrong) on this subject but I think its is not really a solid argument. That is not to say it couldn't be true but I think it is too easily picked apart.

This argument is based more theological and as such it is very difficult to provide a serious analysis of the hypothetical objective's relative merit etc

 

[xianghua]

This argument is based more theological and as such it is very difficult to provide a serious analysis of the hypothetical objective's relative merit etc

its actually a scientific argument. i will ask you a question: do you think that a watch is evidence for design? yes or no?

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I posted this a while ago Faith & Believe Help

And I have been still searching since then trying to make my mind believe.

I think it may be starting to happen but I don't know why and it's making my analytical mind go nuts lol. Basically I have been trying to read the bible here and their and asking God to help me believe. I have also been asking for a sign and then randomly opening the Bible.

I think in my heart it's starting to know even though I don't appear to have had any real sign that I am aware of. Is this the start of blind belief? (something i have always shown utter disdain for, if I am honest) I haver no other explanation.

One of the verses I opened to was this in Corintians;

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,1 but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;2 does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

we know in part and we prophesy in part, when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

I don't really know what to make of it but it felt like it spoke to me but again i have no idea why.

Am I going mad? I don't really want to be one of those who just believes but it's like my heart is overruling my head or is it a case if you want something enough and tell yourself something enough you start to believe your own story? or could it be he's speaking to me without actually speaking and it's changing me?

Hi SW501

Welcome to CF!

Can you remember what you asked just before you opened the Bible at this point?

Reason behind my question is because 1 John 4:8 came to mind when I read your OP, which says

8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

We also need to understand what faith is in terms of the Bible given the last verse in 1 Corinthians 13. Biblical faith (as opposed to exclusively a dictionary definition) is a verb, it is something that does indeed grow. It produces and requires some kind of action (see the story of the men who lowered their sick friend through a roof to be healed and what Jesus said to them in response). The more we have of it (faith) the more we can tap into God's grace day to day. It's like unlearning what we know in this world (so you are not going mad ) and re-learning a new concept, revising it, applying it to our lives continually. Biblical faith is rooted in:

• What Christ has done
• What Christ has said
• What Christ said He will do

Which also brings me to 1 John 3:16 (considering how fully convinced Jesus was to do what He did and how much we should go out of our way to help each other) and John 3:16 (look at these in relation to 1 Corinthians 13).

While I was still an atheist I had to gather evidence as to whether or not Jesus really existed and I was curious to note how the early followers reacted while some of the apostles were still alive. They were convinced about something and I wanted to know what that was. I became convinced over time that Jesus was a real person which piqued my interest then in learning as much as I could about Him from the Bible.

When I became fully convinced that seed of faith germinated

You are on a fabulous journey! As someone else said here... run with it!

 

[SW501]

Can you remember what you asked just before you opened the Bible at this point?

I am trying to ask for guidance everyday bvefore reading a bible verse and I dont think I asked anything particular. It is more of a case of in my head I ask ;

"if you up there, please show me a sign" or "please, guide me to something that could be a sign"

I am falling into faith I think but what is confusing is Im not getting any answers and this is the polar opposite of my personality if that makes sense. That particular verse it was like it spoke to me but as if someone was speaking a language I don't understand if that makes sense.

I have always believed that a man that Jesus existed but the part I was not sure of is if he was the son of God. That is changing I think as I kinda of have a feeling but you hear all these stories about these great signs or people actually hearing god speak to them and I would like to experience this.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I am trying to ask for guidance everyday bvefore reading a bible verse and I dont think I asked anything particular. It is more of a case of in my head I ask ;

"if you up there, please show me a sign" or "please, guide me to something that could be a sign"

I am falling into faith I think but what is confusing is Im not getting any answers and this is the polar opposite of my personality if that makes sense. That particular verse it was like it spoke to me but as if someone was speaking a language I don't understand if that makes sense.

I have always believed that a man that Jesus existed but the part I was not sure of is if he was the son of God. That is changing I think as I kinda of have a feeling but you hear all these stories about these great signs or people actually hearing god speak to them and I would like to experience this.

Gotcha! I can so relate. Personally for me, I had to stop one day and resolve that I must learn a new way of listening whenever I got those kind of nudges. I recalled doing what you've been doing, quite early on when I'd not yet made a decision for Christ and it certainly caught my attention to investigate further. You too will probably notice that you may begin to ''unlearn'' current methods that you adopt to take in something new

In the Bible, Jesus was referred to as 'Rabboni' which means Master/teacher. One thing I've loved on this journey (with me being a teacher myself) is that the Lord tends to personalise how He reveals Himself to individuals a bit like how a teacher will personalise a lesson to meet a student's individual learning need. He uses very different methods on very different people.

I have read for example about how He makes Himself known to people in the Middle East (where the Gospel cannot be freely broadcasted or preached) in dreams which can then be followed up with them meeting a Christian, seemingly just at that right moment in time.

Basically there are some of us who need a more visual stimuli, some may need it to gel after their own investigations, some need to hear it audibly, some may be more child like and accept just-as-is. While you are searching, it might be worth evaluating within yourself how you best receive new concepts......which may be slightly different to how you have been taught to learn, do you get what I mean? The first could be the way that you will get to know God, the latter could be a more complex method of reaching the same goal. At this stage I wouldn't pay too much attention to those accounts of a great sign or wonder happening that makes them suddenly accept Christ. Whilst it may have been necessary for those people, for most of us it does not happen that way.

Like you I had looked into Jesus being the Son of God - including how 1st century believers considered terms like 'Son of Man' which is a term Jesus would use occasionally in the Gospels. It is definitely something that you'll probably enjoy researching as well. Definitely ask in the congregational parts of CF, too.

I would probably suggest that you have that quiet moment again and ask the Lord the same question again. Ask Him to use ways that you understand but also that you are open to consider other methods too.

Keep us posted!

 

[bling]

I am trying to ask for guidance everyday bvefore reading a bible verse and I dont think I asked anything particular. It is more of a case of in my head I ask ;

"if you up there, please show me a sign" or "please, guide me to something that could be a sign"

I am falling into faith I think but what is confusing is Im not getting any answers and this is the polar opposite of my personality if that makes sense. That particular verse it was like it spoke to me but as if someone was speaking a language I don't understand if that makes sense.

I have always believed that a man that Jesus existed but the part I was not sure of is if he was the son of God. That is changing I think as I kinda of have a feeling but you hear all these stories about these great signs or people actually hearing god speak to them and I would like to experience this.

Take what Love and faith you do have and use it to help others (that will help it grow).

 

[SW501]

Gotcha! I can so relate. Personally for me, I had to stop one day and resolve that I must learn a new way of listening whenever I got those kind of nudges. I recalled doing what you've been doing, quite early on when I'd not yet made a decision for Christ and it certainly caught my attention to investigate further. You too will probably notice that you may begin to ''unlearn'' current methods that you adopt to take in something new

In the Bible, Jesus was referred to as 'Rabboni' which means Master/teacher. One thing I've loved on this journey (with me being a teacher myself) is that the Lord tends to personalise how He reveals Himself to individuals a bit like how a teacher will personalise a lesson to meet a student's individual learning need. He uses very different methods on very different people.

I have read for example about how He makes Himself known to people in the Middle East (where the Gospel cannot be freely broadcasted or preached) in dreams which can then be followed up with them meeting a Christian, seemingly just at that right moment in time.

Basically there are some of us who need a more visual stimuli, some may need it to gel after their own investigations, some need to hear it audibly, some may be more child like and accept just-as-is. While you are searching, it might be worth evaluating within yourself how you best receive new concepts......which may be slightly different to how you have been taught to learn, do you get what I mean? The first could be the way that you will get to know God, the latter could be a more complex method of reaching the same goal. At this stage I wouldn't pay too much attention to those accounts of a great sign or wonder happening that makes them suddenly accept Christ. Whilst it may have been necessary for those people, for most of us it does not happen that way.

Like you I had looked into Jesus being the Son of God - including how 1st century believers considered terms like 'Son of Man' which is a term Jesus would use occasionally in the Gospels. It is definitely something that you'll probably enjoy researching as well. Definitely ask in the congregational parts of CF, too.

I would probably suggest that you have that quiet moment again and ask the Lord the same question again. Ask Him to use ways that you understand but also that you are open to consider other methods too.

Keep us posted!

Thank you so much for your response I can really relate to it. I am going to try and pray for him to help me understand any sign he may give me. I think I am slowly letting go of my doubt and my fear. Almost as if I dont care if i'm wrong because its something which i just need to do if that makes sense.

Its just so odd as everything I have done or studied has to be proven beyond reason but in this instance that is becoming less important to me and I just dont understand but then again maybe i dont care? or maybe it doesnt really matter. I am just going to explore what is hahappening.

 

[SW501]

Take what Love and faith you do have and use it to help others (that will help it grow).

Always, at least I try.

 

[4x4toy]

Jesus is the Truth , you hear the gospel then you either love it or not, it is the source of all that is right, you either love it or not , if you love Truth then you will receive it with the hope it brings and then all things will be added to you . You become chosen depending on whether you receive it because you recognize the Truth and hope, love it or you move on . If you love it don't tarry, if you don't , don't waste your time.. You can not serve two masters, you will love the one and hate the other . Choose ye this day who you will serve..
If you must have a sign or proof don't hold your breath because you must love it first then seek with all your heart . Our sign is Christ crucified then resurrected to life for us .It is the Glory of God to conceal a matter it is the glory of kings to search it out ..The abundant life .. Step in and get you some Bro .. I'd be happy and thrilled to have you as a Brother in Christ .. There is too much testimony and Truth to ignore ..

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Thank you so much for your response I can really relate to it. I am going to try and pray for him to help me understand any sign he may give me. I think I am slowly letting go of my doubt and my fear. Almost as if I dont care if i'm wrong because its something which i just need to do if that makes sense.

Its just so odd as everything I have done or studied has to be proven beyond reason but in this instance that is becoming less important to me and I just dont understand but then again maybe i dont care? or maybe it doesnt really matter. I am just going to explore what is hahappening.

You are most welcome. Your OP reminded me so much of me when I began my journey back when I was in my late 20's. And I am still learning 22 years later but I have absolutely no regrets.

Keep knocking at ''that door'' (a play on the words of Luke 11:9) in your beautiful search for the Lord.

God bless you!

 

[UnderPar]

I posted this a while ago Faith & Believe Help

And I have been still searching since then trying to make my mind believe.

I think it may be starting to happen but I don't know why and it's making my analytical mind go nuts lol. Basically I have been trying to read the bible here and their and asking God to help me believe. I have also been asking for a sign and then randomly opening the Bible.

I think in my heart it's starting to know even though I don't appear to have had any real sign that I am aware of. Is this the start of blind belief? (something i have always shown utter disdain for, if I am honest) I haver no other explanation.

One of the verses I opened to was this in Corintians;

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,1 but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;2 does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

we know in part and we prophesy in part, when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

I don't really know what to make of it but it felt like it spoke to me but again i have no idea why.

Am I going mad? I don't really want to be one of those who just believes but it's like my heart is overruling my head or is it a case if you want something enough and tell yourself something enough you start to believe your own story? or could it be he's speaking to me without actually speaking and it's changing me?

Nothing will happen until you start fitting obscure circumstances with your beliefs. Yeah, that's about it, then you can sit back relax and say your God intervenes.

 

[aiki]

I think it may be starting to happen but I don't know why and it's making my analytical mind go nuts lol. Basically I have been trying to read the bible here and their and asking God to help me believe. I have also been asking for a sign and then randomly opening the Bible.

Understanding why we should believe the Gospel (you know what that is, I hope), is not the problem; accepting it as true and anticipating a corresponding change as a consequence is. No one but God can bring you to the latter condition of mind. And He doesn't do that through purely analytical, rational means. God works beyond your mind at the level of your heart, at the seat of who you are in your desires, goals, and self-identity. Often, our minds can be a wall that insulates our heart from the life-changing truth of God. How many people I have encountered over the years who throw up intellectual argument after intellectual argument in an effort to deny God and the radical challenge He represents to their Self-willed living! Even after I have satisfied all their objections, they still refuse Him! And in this I see that God is right: at bottom, people reject Him, not because it is illogical or irrational to believe in and trust Him, but because "men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil." It takes more than mere rational argument to overcome such a barrier. It takes divine, supernatural power.

I think in my heart it's starting to know even though I don't appear to have had any real sign that I am aware of. Is this the start of blind belief? (something i have always shown utter disdain for, if I am honest) I haver no other explanation.

God does not require "blind belief" from us. He gives us many and good reasons to "believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

www.reasonablefaith.org
www.str.org
www.rzim.org
www.crossexamined.org

But God must work beyond our intellect to persuade us to faith in Himself. We have moral resistance to Him and a profound self-centeredness that cannot be overcome my mere rational argument.

I don't really know what to make of it but it felt like it spoke to me but again i have no idea why.

Perhaps it is because love is at the heart of knowing and walking with God. The First and Great Commandment isn't to go to church, or forsake all sin, or pray, or even read the Bible. It is to "love God with all of your being." This is the starting point of a relationship with God, the ground out of which the Christian life is supposed to be lived.

Am I going mad? I don't really want to be one of those who just believes but it's like my heart is overruling my head or is it a case if you want something enough and tell yourself something enough you start to believe your own story? or could it be he's speaking to me without actually speaking and it's changing me?

Coming to true faith in Christ is not merely a matter of persuasive arguments. God must open, and soften, and transform your heart. No rational argument can do that, only God. So, no, you aren't going mad. But it sure sounds like God is knocking on the door of your heart. Will you answer and open the door to Him? I hope and pray so.