Is Donald Trump's wall necessary to prevent child abuse?

[A_Thinker]

Not every illegal alien is escaping kidnappers. Many of them come to the US to commit crimes.

I'm sure some do. I just don't think in general that they are the ones bringing their kids with them.

Thank-you for bringing a measure of reason to this point ...

 

[Halbhh]

You don't think that separating children from their parents constitutes child abuse?

Trump ended that abusive practice of separating immigrant children from their undocumented parents, which his administration had previously increased.

But he ended it a few weeks ago.

Because people of all sides condemned it.

 

[Petros2015]

Meth is so power that it’s very hard to overdose on it. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Illegal immigration is a disaster, but occasional drug use in moderation isn’t harmful.

It sounds like if you had the choice between interacting with a meth-head or an illegal immigrant you'd choose the meth-head. Interesting choice. Let me know how well it works out for you.

 

[Annie Proclivite]

Trump ended that abusive practice of separating immigrant children from their undocumented parents, which his administration had previously increased.

But he ended it a few weeks ago.

Because people of all sides condemned it.

Well, it constitutes child abuse. The onus, though, is not on the US government; it’s the illegal alien parents’ responsibility. It is the illegals who are responsible for getting separated from their children, since they broke the law. Too bad the Trump administration put an end to it. Had the measure still been in place, it would have deterred illegals from illegal entry.

 

[Hank77]

It's not my problem.

Good to know where your heart is at. I can now comfortably ignore your views on the subject of children being separated from their parents because to you it doesn't really matter if the parents are here illegally or legally. Your not interested in the law, you just want to keep people out.

 

[Halbhh]

I agree.

In addition, many of the children were with non-parents. They were with "Coyote's" (those who smuggle humans over the border, many of them children). And Coyote's rape children. That's why these female girls are given birth control, to keep from getting pregnant. The naivete' that most have about these children accompanied by their "parents" is downright dangerous and compounds the problem.

The bottom line, is that yes, it's at the very least, child abuse. In addition it compounds the ever-growing and rampant problem of child sex trafficking and the pedophilia (that we hear only the "tip of the iceberg" about).

It's monstrous.

A wall won't stop that.

Why not?

Boats. Gulf of Mexico. Shores, without fences....

What would stop it?

We could aid the 3 failing nations to restore law and order, the 3 nations of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras, where the people are fleeing from to the U.S., so that they would not need to flee for their own safety, and could instead stay at home in their native lands.

Tens of thousands of Salvadorans, Guatemalans, and Hondurans, many of them unaccompanied minors, have arrived in the United States in recent years, seeking asylum from the region’s skyrocketing violence.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/central-americas-violent-northern-triangle

 

[Annie Proclivite]

Good to know where your heart is at. I can now comfortably ignore your views on the subject of children being separated from their parents because to you it doesn't really matter if the parents are here illegally or legally. Your not interested in the law, you just want to keep people out.

Is keeping out illegals a bad thing? Really, is it?

 

[brinny]

A wall won't stop that.

Why not?

Boats. Gulf of Mexico. Shores, without fences....

What would stop it?

We could aid the 3 failing nations to restore law and order, the 3 nations of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras, where the people are fleeing from to the U.S., so that they would not need to flee for their own safety, and could instead stay at home in their native lands.

Tens of thousands of Salvadorans, Guatemalans, and Hondurans, many of them unaccompanied minors, have arrived in the United States in recent years, seeking asylum from the region’s skyrocketing violence.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/central-americas-violent-northern-triangle

Did you intend to include Venezuela?

The country is imploding as we speak.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

Doing something illegal to help kids is never right.

What about countries where it is illegal to share the Gospel with others, including your own children?

How do you feel about the children being separated from their parents who did NOT cross the border illegally? They were allowed into the country as asylum seekers and immediately had their children taken away.

It's not my problem.

So forcibly removing children from their parents is only child abuse if the parents have broken the law? It's not child abuse if the parents haven't broken the law. You have a funny way of defining child abuse!

 

[Halbhh]

Did you intend to include Venezuela?

The country is imploding as we speak.

We'll see. Possibly. It would be better over time if we did help these nations, with carefully judicious aid and security aid, just like the Marshall Plan after World War II, which resulted in a stable and democratic and peaceful Western Europe.

 

[Petros2015]

You’re right. My analogy was unfair—to drug dealers. Illegal immigration is far worse than using meth.

It's kind of funny, you are worried about the illegals, but I would consider supporting building the wall to stem the flow of the drugs to dealers (if I thought that would work, I doubt that it would be cost efficient vs a high income cartel operation when people on this side of the wall are willing to pay for the product)

*staff edit*

 

[Halbhh]

It's kind of funny, you are worried about the illegals, but I would consider supporting building the wall to stem the flow of the drugs to dealers (if I thought that would work, I doubt that it would be cost efficient vs a high income cartel operation when people on this side of the wall are willing to pay for the product)



I've been in recovery for 5 years, I know quite a few. I don't judge them. Dealers, now that's another matter...

In Oregon, 232 people died from meth use in 2016, nearly twice as many as died from heroin — and three times as many as died from meth 10 years before, according to the state Department of Health.

Between 2011 and 2015, meth arrests were the only type of drug arrests in Portland to increase, and meth has the highest correlation with serious crimes. More than one in five burglars and nearly 40 percent of car thieves were also charged with meth crimes, according to the Portland Police Bureau.

“Heroin is a depressant. It shuts you down and you’re not capable of doing a whole lot,” Sergeant Kubic said. Meth is a stimulant: “Tweakers are jacked up. They have lowered inhibitions and are awake 24/7, running around at night, so burglaries become easier.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/us/meth-crystal-drug.html

I wonder how many people died of illegal immigration in Oregon, in 2016?

I'm going to guess it's less than 232.

Maybe... let's be generous with a guess here...

2?

But of the 232 that died in Oregon from meth, how many got it from Mexico?

The cartels’ efficiency has flooded the market far beyond Oregon. In 2016, customs authorities in San Diego seized 21,747 pounds of meth, almost 10 times what was apprehended in 2007. At border points in Arizona, California and Texas, agents seized 24 times as much.

Meth is carried across the border by people on foot, or hidden in cars and trucks. It can be converted to liquid, and has been smuggled in iced tea bottles, disguised as horse shampoo and hidden in tortillas.

So I might end up supporting the wall anyway, just not for the same reasons. You want the drugs, not the people. I want the people, not the drugs.

Meth is made here in the U.S. also.

So...if you stop the import, then they make more here, in days.

The most effective solution is different -- divine aid to end one's addiction. I know this isn't something that everyone believes in, but I think it's good to point out to believers and to the lost feeling they need something more.

 

[Annie Proclivite]

It's kind of funny, you are worried about the illegals, but I would consider supporting building the wall to stem the flow of the drugs to dealers (if I thought that would work, I doubt that it would be cost efficient vs a high income cartel operation when people on this side of the wall are willing to pay for the product)



*staff edit*

A statistic I found on the Internet said that 12.5 million Americans have used meth at some point in their lives. 232 deaths from 12.5 million is miniscule.

 

[Jamsie]

A statistic I found on the Internet said that 12.5 million Americans have used meth at some point in their lives. 232 deaths from 12.5 million is miniscule.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicati...-scope-methamphetamine-abuse-in-united-states

https://drugabuse.com/library/methamphetamine-history-and-statistics/

 

[Petros2015]

A statistic I found on the Internet said that 12.5 million Americans have used meth at some point in their lives. 232 deaths from 12.5 million is miniscule.

12.5 million Americans have used meth 'at some point in their lives'. Do you think all Americans are 1 year old?

OK, so over the course of let's say... 46 years (since I'm 46 years old and was born in 1971 and that's the year that it was made illegal)... 12.5 million Americans have used it.

The 232 deaths statistic is for 1 year in 1 state of the 50 states of America...

So let's take 232 and multiply by 50 (since there are 50 states, SORRY PUERTO RICO!)
and then let's multiply by 46 (since most people live at least that long, at least I have)
and now we have:

...533,600

Out of 12.5 million using at some point in their lives that's a 4.2% eventual kill rate, which I think sounds about right. We know there were about 6000 in 1 year, 2015 and rates have been increasing.

Nationally, nearly 6,000 people died from stimulant use — mostly meth — in 2015, a 255 percent increase from 2005, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

That's only an average of 120 (6000/50) deaths per state per year in that statistic. Oregon is pulling double that now.

These numbers don't take into account what are probably years or decades of crimes, felonies and prison time that precede a death due to addiction.

Not so miniscule.

 

[majj27]

A statistic I found on the Internet said that 12.5 million Americans have used meth at some point in their lives. 232 deaths from 12.5 million is miniscule.

That's in one state. In one year. The total deaths on meth in the US alone in 2014, for example, was 3,728.

Want to try to see if murder by illegal aliens was higher?

 

[Hank77]

We'll see. Possibly. It would be better over time if we did help these nations, with carefully judicious aid and security aid, just like the Marshall Plan after World War II, which resulted in a stable and democratic and peaceful Western Europe.

I think a lot of the problem with doing that is that the governments of those countries are corrupt. So no matter how much aid we give it isn't going to change the situation. It's different when the government has been overthrown by a war.

 

[Halbhh]

I think a lot of the problem with doing that is that the governments of those countries are corrupt. So no matter how much aid we give it isn't going to change the situation. It's different when the government has been overthrown by a war.

Yes, to be judicious is to avoid feeding corruption. And in ways that work, like direct aid to schools like building and text book and training teachers, vaccinating, nutrition aid, even roads and some infrastructure, and scholarships to aid directly good students. Training of police, judges, etc.

 

[TheNorwegian]

Congress passed a bill funding a border wall. Donald Trump did not sign it ...

We all know it is Mexico that is going to finance that wall, right? /s

 

[The Barbarian]

Or taking down the wall. That'd work too. Build a road instead of a wall.

For most of our history, there were roads instead of a wall. There were no restrictions against immigration. And even after that, they were limited in scope until the early 20th century.

Those were the years in which the United States rose from a small nation to a prosperous economic power in the world.