Is Confession of Sin Necessary for Salvation?

[CharismaticLady]

I believe confession of sin or seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus can play a part in one's entrance to be saved when accepting the gospel and Christ. But confession of sin can be a continual thing at different points in a believer's life. For king David had confessed of his sins and he surely was a man of God before and after his confession of sin in Psalms 51. Paul was desiring the Corinthians to repent, and they did so with a godly sorrow (See: 2 Corinthians 7:10). In the Parable of the Prodigal Son: We learn that when the prodigal son came back home, and sought forgiveness with his father, he was said by his father to "dead" and now he is "alive again." The father was speaking in spiritual terms. The son was "spiritually dead" when he was living a prodigal sinful life, and he became "spiritually alive again" when he sought forgiveness of his sins with his father. Jesus is our Everlasting Father because we will one day be resurrected sons after his likeness.



Only all past sins are forgiven. Future sin is not forgiven a believer. Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of adultery that she was not condemned by He also told her to "sin no more." (John 8:11). Jesus also told a man that he healed to "sin no more, unless a worse thing were to come upon him." Also, 1 John 2:1 says we are to "sin not" but if we do happen to sin, we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:9 is context or view of Jesus being our advocate. We are told in Scripture to come before the throne of grace in time of need. What does that even mean if it is not confession to the Lord Jesus Christ? Is not Jesus our Heavenly high priest who intercedes for us? Does not the Lord's prayer include us seeking forgiveness of our debts (sins)?



Actually, many in the OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) camp believe this way. But it is not biblical. Yes, one can be sanctified by a specific event like the renewal of one's heart, but it does not stop there.

Sanctify:

John 17:17
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

Ephesians 5:25-27
25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." (John 15:3).

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit...". (1 Peter 1:22).

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word."
(Psalms 119:9)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

“But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).​

Sanctify & Sanctified:

John 17:19
"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth."

1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2).

“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6).

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps." (1 Peter 2:21).​

Sanctification:

1 Thessalonians 4:3
"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:"

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

"So all people who have this confidence in Christ keep themselves pure, as Christ is pure." (1 John 3:3 GW).

"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also." Matthew 23:26).

"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." (Luke 6:45).

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God." (Matthew 5:8).
​

Sanctification & Sanctified:

1 Thessalonians 4:4
"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;"

2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

7 "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body." (2 Corinthians 4:7-10).

16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
(1 Corinthians 3:16-17).​

Where does the Bible say that?



Where does the Bible say that?



I don't see how this passage supports what you just said. It is talking about how we need to forgive, or we will not be forgiven by the Father.

14 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15).​

How can we be saved if we are not forgiven by the Father?
So this is talking in relation to salvation here.
We need to forgive others if we hope to be forgiven or saved by God.
What is interesting is that this was said after the Lord's prayer.
Meaning: A believer is cautioned to forgive others as a part of their right standing forgiveness with God. Salvation is conditional. While we are given a new heart with new desires. We are not love robots.

Believers have to endure to the end, endure temptation, be faithful unto death, overcome, and keep themselves in the love of God in order to be saved.

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life,...” (James 1:12).

“...He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

“To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,...” (Revelation 2:7).

"...He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11).

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,...” (Revelation 3:5).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

So we are not changed to a point whereby we will automatically do good. We have to live out this life faithfully for God (Which is by our own choice). For this is the reason why we are living this life now. It is a test. This life is for us to prove to God our faithfulness to Him. We are not forced to be faithful to Him. We have to choose this day (every day) in who we will serve.

Well, I finally went to bed and read this post that I printed, and for the most part, we believe a lot the same. BTW, I do not believe in OSAS, and what I said has nothing to do with that heresy.

Where we differ is on sanctification. You seem to be one that believes the theory that it is a life-long process to overcome sin. I don't. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe there is a process, but not overcoming sin, but developing the mind of Christ in glorification.

2 Peter 1:
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.

The other is on trespasses. You don't seem to know the difference between a sin of lawlessness and a trespass. The Lord's Prayer is asking forgiveness of trespasses, not sins of lawlessness,1 John 3:4, as if "sin is sin." It also goes on to say, "as we forgive those who trespass against us." That goes along with Matthew 6:14-15. Also, you don't seem to know that the Bible calls a trespass, one that is committed unwittingly, and asked where - Leviticus 5:15.

Also, Jesus is our Advocate for trespasses, NOT for sins of lawlessness which would REQUIRE repentance.

One question I have. Have you ever experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Some of what I've come to know is revealed and made clear by that experience.

 

[Neogaia777]

Well, I finally went to bed and read this post that I printed, and for the most part, we believe a lot the same. BTW, I do not believe in OSAS, and what I said has nothing to do with that heresy.

Where we differ is on sanctification. You seem to be one that believes the theory that it is a life-long process to overcome sin. I don't. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe there is a process, but not overcoming sin, but developing the mind of Christ in glorification.

2 Peter 1:
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.

The other is on trespasses. You don't seem to know the difference between a sin of lawlessness and a trespass. The Lord's Prayer is asking forgiveness of trespasses, not sins of lawlessness,1 John 3:4, as if "sin is sin." It also goes on to say, "as we forgive those who trespass against us." That goes along with Matthew 6:14-15. Also, you don't seem to know that the Bible calls a trespass, one that is committed unwittingly, and asked where - Leviticus 5:15.

Also, Jesus is our Advocate for trespasses, NOT for sins of lawlessness which would REQUIRE repentance.

One question I have. Have you ever experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Some of what I've come to know is revealed and made clear by that experience.

Were you formerly 1stCenturyLady...?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Were you formerly 1stCenturyLady...?

Yes, look at my profile. It says aka 1stCenturyLady. Why?

I had computer problems, and this site would no longer take my sign on.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes, look at my profile. It says aka 1stCenturyLady. Why?

I had computer problems, and this site would no longer take my sign on.

Oh, Ok, I thought so, you just sounded a lot like her...

Glad your not one of those who changed it and then got back on here for "other" reasons...

See you around...

God Bless!

 

[Danthemailman]

After we are saved by God's grace, God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

Typical argument from those who teach salvation through faith PLUS WORKS (including Roman Catholics and Mormons). Salvation is not a process that culminates in ultimately being saved by works. Works-salvationists generally confuse justification with ongoing sanctification. James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works (demonstrates that) it's dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

As for 1 John 3:9:

Not all Bibles say the same thing. Some have added some pretty bad stuff in them. Some have even added the devil's name where they do not belong. I believe the KJV circa. 1900 Cambridge Edition is the perfect Word of God for our day, and that Modern Translations (While they can be helpful to update the 1600's English) are not always accurate. I believe the Modern translations that say: "makes a practice of sinning," in 1 John 3:9 is erroneous and false. The word "practice" is a false addition to Scripture. How so? Well, John talks about how if we hate our brother, we are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. The Bible does not teach how we need to be a practicing murderer in order to be a murderer.

Typical argument from KJV-onlyists and those who teach sinless perfection. In regards to 1 John 3:9, Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - Doeth no sin (amartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in verse John 4 like amartanei in verse John 8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin. His seed (sperma autou). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. John 1. And he cannot sin (kai ou dunatai amartanein). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were kai ou dunatai amartein or amarthsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive amartanein can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of amartanei in verse John 8 and amartanwn in verse John 6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see amarthte and amarth in John 2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of amartanein here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 epimenwmen th amartiai (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with amarthswmen in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

1 John 3:9 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

So forgive me if I don't trust your Greek interpretation. I just read and believe the Bible plainly in the English.

The NT was originally written in Greek then later translated into English. Forgive me if I don't trust your biased interpretation of 1 John 3:9 from your pet translation in English. Your true colors are obvious from your endless long winded rants. I can clearly see that your "works salvation/anti-OSAS agenda" is deeply engrained in you which leaves you with some self righteous issues to work out.

 

[Danthemailman]

False dichotomy.

Says you. I clearly made my point using scripture, but you are free to believe what you want to believe regardless.

Indeed; no one born of God practices sin. Those who practice sin are not born of God. An unsaved person is not able to "keep himself" from sinning because he is unregenerate. Thus this passage is directed to believers only. Believers who practice sinning demonstrate that they are unrepentant and therefore unforgiven. No repentance = no forgiveness = no salvation.

Believers who practice sinning? Really? 1 John 3:9 clearly states - No one who is born of God practices sin.. You added your own personal commentary to 1 John 3:9. I will believe John.

The soul is the person rather than just a part of the person. Man does not have a soul; man is a soul. The colloquial expression "that poor soul" refers to the whole person. Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Eze 18:4 "Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die. Like I wrote earlier, Paul warned the brethren that IF they are living according to the flesh, they will die. Does that mean physical death? That would be nonsense as everyone physically dies whether or not they live according to the flesh. Thus the IF clause in Rom 8:13 can only refer to spiritual death.

Was Jesus' soul deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death or physical death in Matthew 26:38? Did every living soul in the sea die spiritually or physically in Revelation 16:3? According to your logic concerning the soul, it would have to be spiritual death.

Walking according to the Spirit in Romans 8:1 is descriptive of children of God. Those who are habitually dominated by the sinful nature (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are habitually dominated by the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. *Contrast between believers and unbelievers.

Let no one deceive you. If the righteous, little children practice sin, they are no longer born of God. See 1 Jn 3:7-8

Show me the words, "no longer" children of God in 1 John 3:7-8. Again, you are adding your own personal commentary to scripture.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. *Once again, contrast between children of God/believers and children of the devil/unbelievers.

And you consider yourself free from any and all biases? I doubt it as we all have our biases. I already pointed out to you that "among" need not be in the text and is not in the text in some translations.

I already pointed out to you that "of us" is in the text of some translations so again, your point is moot. Moreover, don't you read the whole chapter? If you bothered to do so, you will find that "among you" also occurs in Js 5:13;14. These verses in their context clearly refer to genuine believers which quashes your "unbeliever" claim.

As I already pointed out, the NASB (along with the AMP, AMPC, ESV, NRSV, WEB, YLT etc..) translations read "among" and in 1 John 2:19, these people who went out "from" us/genuine believers (were certainly among genuine believers) but were not "of" them, so my comparison is certainly not moot, but you have your agenda to uphold. You seem to have a difficult time understanding the contrast between believers from unbelievers, yet regardless, once again this wanderer in James 5:19,20 is either a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored. For the former, the death spoken of in verse 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

I already covered everything you need to know in posts #26 and #81.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, I finally went to bed and read this post that I printed, and for the most part, we believe a lot the same. BTW, I do not believe in OSAS, and what I said has nothing to do with that heresy.

Where we differ is on sanctification. You seem to be one that believes the theory that it is a life-long process to overcome sin. I don't. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe there is a process, but not overcoming sin, but developing the mind of Christ in glorification.

Let me make it clear that I believe Sanctification is where a believer lives a life that is holy and upright the majority of the time, and that sin is not something that happens very often for them. They may stumble on very rare occasion, but it is not a defining characteristic of who they are in their normal daily walk with the Lord.

That said, there are imperfections that we as Christians need to perfect (i.e. sins not unto death). We can always love more. We can always sacrifice more. We are always discovering something about ourselves that we need to improve. Sanctification over the course of the life the believer makes sense because we see even Moses, Peter, and Paul makes mistakes (Whereby they learned from them). If these men of God lived perfect 100% after they were immediately enlightened by God and received a new heart, there would be no need to enter into the Sanctification process to live holy. Romans 8:13, and 2 Corinthians 7:1 both talk about the Sanctification process (among many other verses).

2 Peter 1:
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.

Yes, I agree with this. I believe this divine nature is a change of the heart when a person truly repents of their sins properly with Jesus and they believe in His death and resurrection on their behalf. A believer is changed and they can live a holy life. It does not mean that they cannot stumble into a particular sin on very rare occasion. If this was not the case, then John would never tell the brethren to go to their advocate in 1 John 2:1 and to confess their sin in 1 John 1:9.

The other is on trespasses. You don't seem to know the difference between a sin of lawlessness and a trespass. The Lord's Prayer is asking forgiveness of trespasses, not sins of lawlessness,1 John 3:4, as if "sin is sin." It also goes on to say, "as we forgive those who trespass against us." That goes along with Matthew 6:14-15. Also, you don't seem to know that the Bible calls a trespass, one that is committed unwittingly, and asked where - Leviticus 5:15.

Also, Jesus is our Advocate for trespasses, NOT for sins of lawlessness which would REQUIRE repentance.

Whether sin is willful or a trespass, they need to confess of that sin to be forgiven of it. Yes, while 1 John 1:9 appears to be more in reference to a trespass, the offer of confession (to Jesus) to be forgiven is for all. For 1 John 2:2 says that Christ is not only the propitiation for our sins, but He is a propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Granted, I am not saying a person can plan to sin again and just confess of it. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that they have to be broken with a godly sorrow and seek forgiveness with the Lord and forsake their sin.

I see the phrase in Hebrews 10:26 as referring to those who think they can turn God's grace into a license for immorality or for those who think they can be unfaithful for an extended period of time in their life and then later come back. I say this because there were Christians who thought they could escape persecution by trying to go back to Judaism. Then when the persecution had passed, they could then serve Christ again. This is what I believe helps to explain both Hebrews 6, and Hebrews 10.

One question I have. Have you ever experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Some of what I've come to know is revealed and made clear by that experience.

I did not learn fully of what the baptism of the Holy Spirit was until recent years.
I believe the baptism in the Spirit is receiving the Holy Spirit.
My spirit baptism (that I have come to learn about later) was an enlightenment to the truth of the Bible in what it says, and in having a love, joy, and peace that I have never known before (Which happened way back in 1992 for me).
The Bible then became a book that was alive to me and at times the words would appear to jump off the page and talk to my heart deeply.
This is only possible by the Spirit. I do not believe you have to speak in tongues or heal people, or do something miraculous in order to prove that you had the baptism of the Holy Spirit. While I am not saying that Continuationism is entirely false (Because I don't want to speak against God just in case I am wrong), there are many Scripture verses that help me to lean heavily in favor of Partial Cessationism (Note: See this thread here); Oh, and no. I do not like John MacArthur and his presentation on Cessationism. I disagree with Calvinism and OSAS strongly and his unloving approach towards Cessationism is really wrong in my opinion.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Typical argument from those who teach salvation through faith PLUS WORKS (including Roman Catholics and Mormons).

Guilt by association is not always true. We both agree that the Trinity is true. But just because Catholics believe in the Trinity, does not mean the Trinity is not true. The ultimate determination of truth is by God's Word. So please make your case by exclusively using the Bible alone.

Salvation is not a process that culminates in ultimately being saved by works.

We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Christ, and believing in His death and resurrection on our behalf and seeking forgiveness with Him. But it does not stop there. True faith is shown by works (James 2:18). In fact, the Bible talks about the Sanctification Process.

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).
"Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you." (1 Timothy 4:15-16).
"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16).
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).
"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; " (Hebrews 12:14-15).
"let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. " (Titus 2:11-14).
"And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. " (1 John 3:3).

I could keep going on but this should suffice.

Works-salvationists generally confuse justification with ongoing sanctification. James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

Eternal Security Proponents cannot explain James 2:24 properly. They want the word "justified" to be split in it having two different meanings. James 2:24 uses the word "justified" in relation to both works and faith. Surely the Eternal Security Proponent believes they are justified by faith as a part of salvation, but they are not being consistent with James 2:24 when they change the word "justified" in James 2:24 in relation to works.

Besides, Jesus already told us about how the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. But Eternal Security Proponents have to re-write the words of Jesus and say that He was teaching Old Covenant and it was all a part of the point how no man can live according to a righteous standard and thus they just need to believe in Him for salvation. Sorry, that is not the point of the parable and neither was there any sermon or added words explaining that was the final conclusion to His teachings during His earthly ministry.

Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

Sorry. I don't believe anyone has grown up in bible times to truly know biblical Greek as if it was their own native tongue of English. This is why I encourage all to just read and believe their Bible plainly in the English. That is the Word by which we all will be held accountable by. God is not going to hold us accountable to some dead language that we cannot know with 100% certainty. We are only guessing as to what a dead language says.

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

Okay. You are not teaching me anything new with this verse. I already have known for a long time that our words reveal the conditions of our hearts by this verse. The problem is that it does not help your belief in any way but it only seeks to destroy it. In Eternal Security, you can say something bad on occasion (or in Hardcore Eternal Security, you can swear all the time), and you are still saved and you are not condemned. But Jesus says in Matthew 12:37 that we can be condemned by our words. Again, the standard cookie cutter excuse of the Eternal Security Proponent (I heard before) with no evidence in Scripture is that Jesus said things like this to show the futility in keeping God's laws. But the words of Jesus are plain here. They still stand true today. A person can still be condemned by their words.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29).

I understand what you are trying to do here. You are attempting to point out how the word "justified" does not always relate to salvation as proof that James 2:24 is not talking in relation to salvation. First, just skip back chapter and read James 1:12, James 1:21-22, and James 1:26-27. It is focused on right actions. James 1:12, and James 1:21 are focused on obedience as a part of eternal life. Second, the word "justified" is related to faith. Surely you are not going to say that "being justified by faith" does not relate to salvation.

So "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works (demonstrates that) it's dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

You want to make works or holy living (whatever that looks like) where it is automatic and forced upon the believer because they made a one time decision for Christ. That a true genuine faith will always (without fail) produce works and they will be in God's Kingdom one day.

But that's not the reality the Bible teaches.

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life,...” (James 1:12).

“...He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

“To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,...” (Revelation 2:7).

"...He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11).

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,...” (Revelation 3:5).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*

Pure fantasy. 1 John 1:7 says you need to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you of all sin. The Bible clearly says anyone who does not hear the words of Jesus will be destroyed.

22 "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
(Acts of the Apostles 3:22-23).

Peter said that Jesus had the words of eternal life (John 6:68).

We need to believe in Jesus AND hear Jesus's words in order to have everlasting life (See: John 5:24).

Those who reject the words of Jesus, those very words will judge them on the last day.

John 12:48 says,
"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

All who offend (sin) within the Kingdom of Christ or who do iniquity (intense sin) will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

Matthew 13:41-42 says,
41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

 

[Oldmantook]

Says you. I clearly made my point using scripture, but you are free to believe what you want to believe regardless.

Of course says me. You proposed a false dichotomy which I clearly pointed out to you. You did not give a counter reply to me exposing your logical fallacy. If you want to stay with your logical fallacy you are free to do so.

Believers who practice sinning? Really? 1 John 3:9 clearly states - No one who is born of God practices sin.. You added your own personal commentary to 1 John 3:9. I will believe John.

You believe what you will despite Scripture which is your prerogative. The verse states "no one." No one means "every one" including believers. Believers don't get a free pass. Moreover a couple of verses earlier in v.7 John makes it clear that he is addressing believers as he uses the term "little children" - used exclusively for believers only - never unbelievers.

Was Jesus' soul deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death or physical death in Matthew 26:38? Did every living soul in the sea die spiritually or physically in Revelation 16:3? According to your logic concerning the soul, it would have to be spiritual death.

As you may know context is key. Comparing some verses which refer to physical death and some verses which refer to spiritual death is poor hermeneutics and amounts to eisegesis. Stick to the texts in discussion.

*Contrast between believers and unbelievers.

As you pointed out, Rom 8:1 does indeed refer to believers. However there is a clause in v.1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." (NKJV) No condemnation only applies to those believers who choose to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh. If you don't heed v.1 then Paul reinforces his point in v.4 which reads "that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Thus according to vs. 1 & 4, believers are not condemned if they walk according to the Spirit. And conversely, believers are condemned if they walk according to the Spirit. Paul again reinforces his point in v.13 which reads "For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."
Therefore your claim that this passage is a contrast between believers and unbelievers is unfounded as Paul emphasizes otherwise, not once, not twice, but three times. You can choose to ignore all three warnings.

Show me the words, "no longer" children of God in 1 John 3:7-8. Again, you are adding your own personal commentary to scripture.

No, read what it plainly states. As I pointed out earlier, John is addressing "little children" which is used exclusively to refer to believers. He wrote:
Little children, let no one lead you astray; the one practicing righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this reason the Son of God was revealed, so that He might destroy the works of the devil. (BLB)
Thus the little child/believing one is the one whose lifestyle is characterized by practicing righteousness/obedience to God. Conversely, the little child/believing one whose lifestyle is characterized by practicing sin is of the devil. Thus the child of God is no longer a child of God because he/she practices sin and is of the devil.

As I already pointed out, the NASB (along with the AMP, AMPC, ESV, NRSV, WEB, YLT etc..) translations read "among" and in 1 John 2:19, these people who went out "from" us/genuine believers (were certainly among genuine believers) but were not "of" them, so my comparison is certainly not moot, but you have your agenda to uphold. You seem to have a difficult time understanding the contrast between believers from unbelievers, yet regardless, once again this wanderer in James 5:19,20 is either a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored. For the former, the death spoken of in verse 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

Did you not read what I wrote?? I turned your argument around on it's face using your same logic which devastates your argument. Your claim is that the word "among" as used in Js 5:19 refers to unbelievers thus the death of the soul in v.20 applies to unbelievers; not believers. I plainly pointed out to you that your same English translations also use the word among in Js 5:13,14 which you totally ignore. Vs 13-14 clearly show that "among" refers to believers - not unbelievers - so in proper context how can you possibly claim that v.19 suddenly refers to unbelievers?? That is totally out of context. Yet you ignore the text in order to cling to your doctrine which is of course your prerogative.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Romans 8:13, and 2 Corinthians 7:1 both talk about the Sanctification process (among many other verses).

The point I'm trying to make is neither of those verses mentions the word "sanctification." Your sanctification as a process is what I now believe is glorification - partaking of the sinless divine nature.

Whether sin is willful or a trespass, they need to confess of that sin to be forgiven of it. Yes, while 1 John 1:9 appears to be more in reference to a trespass, the offer of confession (to Jesus) to be forgiven is for all. For 1 John 2:2 says that Christ is not only the propitiation for our sins, but He is a propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:9 is for murder, rape, adultery, stealing, lying, anything. It is for ALL unrighteousness, which corresponds to Jesus dying for the "sins of the whole world." Even Jeffrey Dahmer and Son of Sam. It is to BECOME a Christian. It does not "appear to be more in reference to a trespass." I never said that, or anything like that.

Because trespasses are unwittingly committed, even while walking in the Spirit, how can you confess something you don't realize you've committed? You still are believing "sin is sin."

I say this because there were Christians who thought they could escape persecution by trying to go back to Judaism. Then when the persecution had passed, they could then serve Christ again.

Do you have a reference for that?

While I am not saying that Continuationism is entirely false (Because I don't want to speak against God just in case I am wrong), there are many Scripture verses that help me to lean heavily in favor of Partial Cessationism

This is why I asked. I had a feeling you have some unbelief that blinds you to the full gospel of our covenant. There is so much more. That is not to say you don't have the Holy Spirit at all. You do, but you had to learn about it years later; you've received the first one. But the second one is much more powerful for ministry, and it is nothing that is quietly received. From then on you don't have to worry about "confessing your sins." You just live in complete obedience to the Holy Spirit, and don't commit sins that can separate us from God. You then will keep growing in the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The point I'm trying to make is neither of those verses mentions the word "sanctification." Your sanctification as a process is what I now believe is glorification - partaking of the sinless divine nature.

The Bible uses the word sanctification in reference to living holy.

"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;" (1 Thessalonians 4:4).

"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication" (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

So God's will for our life is Sanctification and as a part of it, we are told to abstain from fornication. We are told to possess our vessel (our body) in sanctification.

The Bible also uses the word "sanctify" in relation to using Scripture to clean or sanctify the church so that Christ might present to Himself a church that is holy, and without blemish.

Ephesians 5:25-27 says,
25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."​

To summarize 2 Timothy 3:16-17, it says all Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works.

The Bible also uses other words to refer to the Sanctification Process or in purifying oneself so as to Live Holy:

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

"Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you." (1 Timothy 4:15-16).

"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16).

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; " (Hebrews 12:14-15).

"let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. " (Titus 2:11-14).

"And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. " (1 John 3:3).​

1 John 1:9 is for murder, rape, adultery, stealing, lying, anything. It is for ALL unrighteousness, which corresponds to Jesus dying for the "sins of the whole world." Even Jeffrey Dahmer and Son of Sam. It is to BECOME a Christian.

John says "we" in 1 John 1:9. He includes himself. If we confess. This would include himself and the brethren he is talking to. John is writing to the brethren in regards to the false gnostic belief or those who are trying to seduce the brethren (See 1 John 2:26). For example: 1 John 1:8, and 1 John 1:10 are gnostic beliefs that John is warning the brethren about. In other words, to loosely summarize 1 John 1:8, 1 John 1:10, and 1 John 1:9, it would be like John saying:

"Hey brothers and sisters, do not fall for the lie of the belief that says sin is an illusion whereby if you sin physically it does not exist for you on a spiritual level. If you fall for that kind of belief, you will deceive yourselves. The proper way to deal with sin is to confess of it so as to be forgiven of it."

It does not "appear to be more in reference to a trespass." I never said that, or anything like that.

Sorry, I should have clarified my words better. I am saying that 1 John 1:9 appears to be more in reference to a trespass, but it can also be extended to refer to willful sin, as well (because of 1 John 2:2).

Because trespasses are unwittingly committed, even while walking in the Spirit, how can you confess something you don't realize you've committed?

That's not my understanding on a trespass or a sin not committed unintentionally. There is no such thing as a sin that will remain in the dark for a believer forever. That makes no sense. The Spirit even convicts the world of sin (John 16:8-9). How much more do you think the Spirit will do for those who belong to Christ?

You still are believing "sin is sin."

That's because all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17).
Granted, I believe there is a sin unto death (1 John 5:16), and a sin not unto death (1 John 5:17).

I say this because there were Christians who thought they could escape persecution by trying to go back to Judaism. Then when the persecution had passed, they could then serve Christ again.

Do you have a reference for that?

While I am not generally big on commentaries or what scholars say, in this instance, they do shed light on helping to fill in the gaps on what is going on in Hebrews 6.

Here is what it states at Wikipedia:

"Scholars believe it [the book of Hebrews] was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem. Its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution. At this time, certain believers were considering turning back to Judaism (the Jewish system of law) to escape being persecuted for accepting Christ as their saviour,"​

Source:
Epistle to the Hebrews - Wikipedia

While it is not hardcore fact, it is a highly probable that this could have been the case. Especially when Hebrews 10 talks about warning not to backslide, and especially when the book of Hebrews talks heavily about the priesthood and the sacrifices, etc. in comparison to Christ being our sacrifice and heavenly high priest now.

This is why I asked. I had a feeling you have some unbelief that blinds you to the full gospel of our covenant. There is so much more. That is not to say you don't have the Holy Spirit at all. You do, but you had to learn about it years later; you've received the first one. But the second one is much more powerful for ministry, and it is nothing that is quietly received. From then on you don't have to worry about "confessing your sins." You just live in complete obedience to the Holy Spirit, and don't commit sins that can separate us from God. You then will keep growing in the fruit of the Spirit.

While it is tempting to believe that such may be true, I am also very cautious and prefer to compare Scripture with Scripture over a long period of time vs. just accepting something that is new to me. Only God can reveal truth in His timing for me (if it is His will for me to know). So if what you say is true, and God wants me to know such a truth, I believe I will discover it. For I used to be against the idea that water baptism is not necessary and what is only necessary is Spirit baptism. But I believe God opened my eyes to the truth on this one. But like I said. I am cautious and I need to test everything with the Word of God over time. I am not into rushing into anything. For now, I am for the Bible and the Bible alone. I do not believe we can add any more new words to the Bible. That for me is a big one. Continuationism appears to be against that (of which I do not agree with). I believe all we need is the Bible alone with God giving us the understanding of it.

 

[packermann]

The point I'm trying to make is neither of those verses mentions the word "sanctification." Your sanctification as a process is what I now believe is glorification - partaking of the sinless divine nature.

From a Catholic perspective justification and sanctification are the same process. Justification is looking at it as the process of being made righteous. Sanctification is looking at it as the process of being made holy. But being made righteous and being made holy are the same thing.

1 John 1:9 is for murder, rape, adultery, stealing, lying, anything. It is for ALL unrighteousness, which corresponds to Jesus dying for the "sins of the whole world." Even Jeffrey Dahmer and Son of Sam. It is to BECOME a Christian. It does not "appear to be more in reference to a trespass." I never said that, or anything like that.

Because trespasses are unwittingly committed, even while walking in the Spirit, how can you confess something you don't realize you've committed? You still are believing "sin is sin."

It sounds somewhat that you would agree with the Catholic dogma of mortal sin and venial sin (what you would call trespasses) - that the former is far more serious than the later.

But according to the Catholic Church, as venial sin is not just is committed unwittingly. It could also be a venial sin if it is not a serious matter or that it was not done deliberately.

But the sin that is mortal, a sin that leads to death, the kinds that is not a venial sin or what you call a trespass, would to me require more than privately confessing it to God. I think it it requires a third party, who is trained to ensure that the confessor is sincere in his confession. This is a matter of life and death - for all eternity. How can it not have a priest present? That is why our Lord breathed on the apostles and gave them the authority to forgive sins (John 20:21).

You are not far from the truth. But I cannot see how a non-sacramental confession of a grave sin could give the confessor the certainty that he was forgiven. What if there was no sincere intention of repentance. The heart is deceitful. How do I know that I did not confess my sins with full intention of doing it again in the near future?

 

[CharismaticLady]

John says "we" in 1 John 1:9.

You have said it yourself that 1 John 1:8 is about Gnostics, which I agree. John uses "we" there too and you don't believe John was Gnostic do you? Of course not. Both John and Paul use first person, even when it doesn't apply to them personally. Like Paul spoke in first person in Romans 7, but he wasn't under the law anymore was he? No, of course not.

1 John 1:9 says we are cleansed of all sin. Does that mean we have to confess again even though we are free from sin? How often should we confess nothing? Every day? Every week? 1 John 3:9

 

[CharismaticLady]

From a Catholic perspective justification and sanctification are the same process. Justification is looking at it as the process of being made righteous. Sanctification is looking at it as the process of being made holy. But being made righteous and being made holy are the same thing.

I see justification as the moment we are cleansed of all our past sin, and at that point we are set apart/sanctified for good works going forward. So they are back to back. Justification looking back, and sanctification looking forward. I do not see sanctification as a process of getting any cleaner than when ALL our sin was taken away at justification.

It sounds somewhat that you would agree with the Catholic dogma of mortal sin and venial sin (what you would call trespasses) - that the former is far more serious than the later.

Yes, the Old Testament shows us that God puts sin into two categories. Did you know that there were no sacrifices for sins against any of the Ten Commandments? They were truly sins unto death - they stoned them to death. Those would truly be mortal sins. Even David did not get off scot-free. God took his new-born son, so there was death.

Unintentional trespasses did have a sacrifice. Numbers 15:22-36 shows that sacrifice, then goes on to verse 36 showing them killing a man who broke the Sabbath.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have said it yourself that 1 John 1:8 is about gnostics. John uses "we" there too. 1 John 1:9 says we are cleansed of all sin. Does that mean we have to confess again even though we are free from sin?

As I said before, John is talking to believers in 1 John 1:8, and 1 John 1:10 but he is warning them about the false gnostic belief by placing them in a "what if" scenario (of if they were deceived by this belief). It says IF we say that we have no sin... etc. In 1 John 2:26, John tells the brethren that he is saying this in regards to them that seduce them. So yes. John is still talking to believers in verses 8 and 10. The "we" is still in reference to John himself and the believers he is writing to. He is warning the brethren about a false belief by using a "what if" involving themselves. If they believe this way, they will deceive themselves. John is trying to warn them not to fall for their deception. It makes no sense that John would be writing to unbelievers or the gnostics. Many times John refers to the brethren in his epistle. He says, my little children, etc.

 

[CharismaticLady]

As I said before, John is talking to believers in 1 John 1:8, and 1 John 1:10 but he is warning them about the false gnostic belief by placing them in a "what if" scenario (of if they were deceived by this belief). It says IF we say that we have no sin... etc. In 1 John 2:26, John tells the brethren that he is saying this in regards to them that seduce them. So yes. John is still talking to believers in verses 8 and 10. The "we" is still in reference to John himself and the believers he is writing to. He is warning the brethren about a false belief by using a "what if."

Yes he is talking TO Christians, but not ABOUT them. As you know the Gnostics were trying to infiltrate the churches spreading their doctrine (to itching ears).

They was also Paul's "thorn in the flesh" besides Judaizers. (Judges 2:3)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes he is talking TO Christians, but not ABOUT them. As you know the Gnostics were trying to infiltrate the churches spreading their doctrine (to itching ears).

That was also Paul's "thorn in the flesh" besides Judaizers.

It is pointless to tell Christians about these beliefs if it is not to warn these Christians about them.
Again, the word "we" is in there. Who do you think the "we" is talking to in verses 8-10? The gnostics?
Is John switching back and forth in talking to Christians, and then talking to gnostics?

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is pointless to tell Christians about these beliefs if it is not to warn these Christians about them.
Again, the word "we" is in there. Who do you think the "we" is talking to in verses 8-10? The gnostics?
Is John switching back and forth in talking to Christians, and then talking to gnostics?

This is silly. Read my post again. I already said John was talking TO Christians. Not to Gnostics - it was ABOUT them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is silly. Read my post again. I already said John was talking TO Christians. Not to Gnostics - it was ABOUT them.

So if 1 John 1:9 is written to Christians, then that means he is telling Christians (who are already Christians) that if they sin, they are to confess of sin in order to be forgiven of sin. 1 John 2:2 talks about how Jesus is not only the propitiation for our sins but for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 1:9 is not in reference to becoming a Christian (although the verse can be loosely used in that way because of 1 John 2:2).

 

[CharismaticLady]

So if 1 John 1:9 is written to Christians, then that means he is telling Christians (who are already Christians) that if they sin, they are to confess of sin in order to be forgiven of sin. 1 John 2:2 talks about how Jesus is not only the propitiation for our sins but for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:9 is the same as Acts of the Apostles 2:38.